Vitu Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 so with that scene in the S7 trailer when jon strangles Little finger in the crypts. Do you guys reckon he knows about R+L=J? and that's his way of threating to weaken Jon's claim to the north? I mean many people have pointed out that in the scene he had with sansa in S5 when they talked abouy Lyanna it seemed like he knew things about her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Yes, it still seems like he knows about it. But how would such threaten his claim to the North? Jon doesn't have a claim to the North. It's really all the same for the North whether he is one Stark and a commoner's bastard or another Stark and a Targaryen prince's bastard. it is theorized that there might be some sort of writing in Lyanna's tomb (birth or marriage certificate) that recognizes Jon as Rhaegar's legitimate son. That would only strengthen his claim for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Lovejoy Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I don't believe LF knows that R+L=J, but I got the sense that he knows it's more complicated than "Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna" and has an inkling they were in love. But if he knows they had a child and it is Jon Snow he is a freaking wizard... I mean, weirnet Bran is the only person who knows at this point. Not Varys not his little birds no one. And to think LF wouldn't use that bit of information to create a little chaos and further himself is insane. Then again, if it makes things easier for D&D, then LF definitely knows whatever they want him to without any reasonable or consistent explanation necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I preface this with saying that the show often doesn't make sense..... It would not make sense for LF to know the truth and for Varys not to know. Either both know it or neither knows it. Figuring out that Lyanna wasn't abducted isn't the same thing as realizing that Ned's bastard is his sister's son by Rhaegar. They...LF and Varys...may have reasoned out that there was no abduction, but it doesn't really make sense that either of them would have known that, especially Varys, and done nothing w/the information. LF might figure out while he's at Winterfell, though. I don't think it matters one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Well of course it doesn't make sense. When did anything make sense past season... 3? 2? It doesn't make sense, but it does seem like LF knows something otherwise they wouldn't keep teasing it, would they? I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitu Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 5 hours ago, RhaenysB said: Well of course it doesn't make sense. When did anything make sense past season... 3? 2? It doesn't make sense, but it does seem like LF knows something otherwise they wouldn't keep teasing it, would they? I don't know. Yeah I agree with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitu Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 5 hours ago, Cas Stark said: I preface this with saying that the show often doesn't make sense..... It would not make sense for LF to know the truth and for Varys not to know. Either both know it or neither knows it. Figuring out that Lyanna wasn't abducted isn't the same thing as realizing that Ned's bastard is his sister's son by Rhaegar. They...LF and Varys...may have reasoned out that there was no abduction, but it doesn't really make sense that either of them would have known that, especially Varys, and done nothing w/the information. LF might figure out while he's at Winterfell, though. I don't think it matters one way or the other. dude little finger can know what you had for breakfast on your vacation trip. Just something to keep in mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 He really shouldn't... still considering how much D&D loves removing characters no doubt he will secretly be Howland Reed. Or have the knowledge he was going to reveal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Cecily Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 12 hours ago, Lucius Lovejoy said: ...Then again, if it makes things easier for D&D, then LF definitely knows whatever they want him to without any reasonable or consistent explanation necessary. Yes. 1 hour ago, Lord Wraith said: He really shouldn't... still considering how much D&D loves removing characters no doubt he will secretly be Howland Reed. Or have the knowledge he was going to reveal. That's a thought. Pass the lemon cakes, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 8 hours ago, Lord Wraith said: He really shouldn't... still considering how much D&D loves removing characters no doubt he will secretly be Howland Reed. Or have the knowledge he was going to reveal. Maybe one of those maids they showed with Lyanna is actually an LF whore and that's how LF knows the tale...? But wouldn't Rhaegar and the KG background check people before employing them as midwives? And yeah that's unfortunately a possibility. I'm so over LF. He is like Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Sorry, the connection is terrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny of Dorne Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 The show has had me thinking so far that he does know. No idea how, the show is not always strictly logical..maybe through brothel gossip. And we should keep in mind that in the show it is not as clearly established as in the books that after Robert won the IT, Targaryen children were in such danger that their existence would have to be kept secret. For all I know, many people in show Westeros may know about R+L. The show is just more superficial with these nuances than the books. Also I do not think being Rhaegar and Lyanna's son would undermine Jon's claim to the North. He won it by being a successful war commander and the last male related to the Starks, not just because of being Ned's son, so if anything can undermine him it is Bran coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacala Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 21 hours ago, Cas Stark said: I preface this with saying that the show often doesn't make sense..... It would not make sense for LF to know the truth and for Varys not to know. Either both know it or neither knows it. Figuring out that Lyanna wasn't abducted isn't the same thing as realizing that Ned's bastard is his sister's son by Rhaegar. They...LF and Varys...may have reasoned out that there was no abduction, but it doesn't really make sense that either of them would have known that, especially Varys, and done nothing w/the information. LF might figure out while he's at Winterfell, though. I don't think it matters one way or the other. It would make no sense if no one from Westeros dont start questions when 3 of 7 best of the best King Guard left the king or Arthur Dayne death. The secret plot dont make sense in this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaWitch Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 I think if it was possible to ferret out a secret, Petyr probably has. And fifteen years or so isn't that long in the scheme of things. Someone will know something, Though he's likely just poking Jon with a stick for fun. Petyr will be doing his damndest to drive a wedge between all the Starklings. Banded together, they have legitimacy, popular support and acceptable leadership between them. The bannermen won't follow a woman or a crippled boy into battle, but Jon Snow as effective 'Hand' to the King or Queen in the North? ...mind you, I do not think Winterfell is a healthy place for him. There's a risk of sudden!Arya, Sansa has a way with animals, and the trees might get him, if Jon doesn't punch his smirk through his skull. Braavos would be nice this time of year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 I do think he knows or suspects the true nature of Rhaegar's and Lyanna's relationship bit I don't think he knows the whole truth. This scene that you just described is about something else. 23 hours ago, Cas Stark said: I preface this with saying that the show often doesn't make sense..... It would not make sense for LF to know the truth and for Varys not to know. Either both know it or neither knows it. Figuring out that Lyanna wasn't abducted isn't the same thing as realizing that Ned's bastard is his sister's son by Rhaegar. They...LF and Varys...may have reasoned out that there was no abduction, but it doesn't really make sense that either of them would have known that, especially Varys, and done nothing w/the information. LF might figure out while he's at Winterfell, though. I don't think it matters one way or the other. How would any of them know? The beauty of this is that naive, honorable and not so skilled in lies Ned Stark outsmarted LF, Tywin or Varys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 On 2017. 06. 01. at 3:40 PM, Jenny of Dorne said: The show has had me thinking so far that he does know. No idea how, the show is not always strictly logical..maybe through brothel gossip. And we should keep in mind that in the show it is not as clearly established as in the books that after Robert won the IT, Targaryen children were in such danger that their existence would have to be kept secret. For all I know, many people in show Westeros may know about R+L. The show is just more superficial with these nuances than the books. Also I do not think being Rhaegar and Lyanna's son would undermine Jon's claim to the North. He won it by being a successful war commander and the last male related to the Starks, not just because of being Ned's son, so if anything can undermine him it is Bran coming back. I guess that's what you call a euphemism. Yeah, maybe the whole realm knows it, just nobody cares. Maybe Jon should go around Westeros telling everybody he's looking for his mother, a high born woman of three times ten years with a fair face and dark hair and blue eyes. Jon is a bastard son who was losing the battle for Winterfell, he and his men were surrounded and being slaughtered when Littlefinger and Sandra's army arrived to win the battle. Sandra is the oldest legitimate child of Ned Stark and the heir to Winterfell until either Bran, the legitimate male child of Ned Stark is found or Jon, the illegitimate oldest and male (alleged) child of Ned Stark is legitimized. Jon's claim to the North relies solely on the show's being not always strictly logical. 23 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said: How would any of them know? The beauty of this is that naive, honorable and not so skilled in lies Ned Stark outsmarted LF, Tywin or Varys. Did he outsmart them though? He just managed to keep a secret. Is that outsmarting someone? Howland would have promised to keep his mouth shut, but I do want to know what the deal with the two maids is (because they must be the key to how the show has LF know, if he knows). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 21 minutes ago, RhaenysB said: Did he outsmart them though? He just managed to keep a secret. Is that outsmarting someone? Howland would have promised to keep his mouth shut, but I do want to know what the deal with the two maids is (because they must be the key to how the show has LF know, if he knows). Considering that Varys or LF would have known this secret, by keeping this secret a secret ... I guess it could count as a outsmarting. Even convincing others that he cheated on Cat, no matter how much out of character that was for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 17 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said: Considering that Varys or LF would have known this secret, by keeping this secret a secret ... I guess it could count as a outsmarting. Even convincing others that he cheated on Cat, no matter how much out of character that was for him. Siri, define outsmart. Okay, let's give that to Ned, he outsmarted them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, RhaenysB said: Siri, define outsmart. Okay, let's give that to Ned, he outsmarted them. Ned was alway viewed as a naive, honorable individual heck all the Starks at some point but let's give him that. Tbh circumstances also played into his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 13 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said: Ned was alway viewed as a naive, honorable individual heck all the Starks at some point but let's give him that. Tbh circumstances also played into his hands. Majorly. Oh no, no. That's a Ned trait that's present in (some of) the children he brought up. Brandon, Lyanna or Benjen were never described as such if my memory serves me right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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