No one is here Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 What if Edric was given up as a ward (hostage) by House Dayne as fealty after the rebellion and they were forced to marry a Dayne daughter to one of the Reacher Lords? It makes sense for Robert B to distrust the Daynes (for a number of reasons; i.e. Arthur Dayne Rhaegar's bestie, ect). It has me wondering if that was part of the infamous "Jon Arryn deal" that he cut with Dorn after the rebellion was won by Robert. Having the heir to Starfall in the Stormlands should keep the Daynes in line. It would be interesting to go back and try to find out if there are any other heirs from the Dornish high lords that are being held as captives right after the war ended. I have always wondered what Jon Arryn did/said that made the Dornish lay down their spears. It's not like Dornish history is not littered with examples of them surviving as underdogs in war. Maybe it was simply forcing Dorn to give up high value political hostages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Well, we don't know much about House Dayne apart from Arthur, Ashara and Edric and we don't know much about them. For one, it seems odd that Edric would not have a regent, since he has not reached majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 4 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said: There was no way for any one to know all this would happen once the betrothal was made and Edric was made Berc's squire. Obviously the marriage won't be happening now either with Beric being dead. If no wars had broken out it's safe to assume Edric would have eventually been Knighted by Beric then Beric would have married Allyria then both Edric and Beric would move into their respective Castles with a strong alliances between them. Then if Darkstar ever came at Edric Beric would aid him in putting him down. I'm saying that Gerold would have to find Edric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo of House Cartel Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 7 hours ago, Ckram said: @Leo of House Cartel One must have in mind that Beric was only 18 when he took Edric as a page, and we don't know if he had any fame at that time. However it's most likely that Beric had not done anything remarkable back then. Everything that he is now known for was developed during his time commanding the BwB. In deed, when Eddard first saw him by the Mud Gate of King's Landing (AGOT - Eddard VI), he literally ignored Beric, even in his thoughts. Then, when Eddard sent troops to kill the Mountain (AGOT - Eddard XI), he gave the command to Beric because it befitted his "rank", not because of his notorious abillities. Finally, Tywin called Beric "some young lordling with delusions of valor" (AGOT - Tyrion VII). Bryden Tully also called Beric a "lordling" (ACOK - Catelyn I). A fair point my friend, yet one could assume 18 year old Beric would have to meet some "valor criteria" before the marriage pact was sealed, if the way House Dayne has been built up is anything to go by. I'm not saying Allyria's family would be expecting every potential suitor to take some Sword of The Morning style test, yet I do imagine The Daynes, with all there apparent combat skills and heroics, wouldn't just go for any old Lord. The family is only one generation removed from Ser Arthur, so they may even weigh the value of suitors against that of The Deadliest of Aerys' Kingsguard. If we go by this logic then either The Daynes felt Beric was worthy, or perhaps times are hard at Starfall in the post Arthur era and they are just "taking what they can get". I doubt the latter is the case, so I'll say House Dayne approved of Beric due to his familys storied history, such as Jena being deemed worthy to Wed The Dragon. We also have Beric's charisma, martial skill and good looks, which are shown in GOT by Jeyne and Sansa's gushing over him and his legendary "No, here to win the Hands Tourney" bit. In regards to Beric's reputation pre WOT5K, we don't really know what the public perception of the man was around Dorne and The Marches. While not famous enough to be known to people from other regions, such as Eddard, Edmure or Tywin, young Beric could have been held in high esteem by his fellow Marcher Lords. He could be the veteran of numerous battles along the borderlands. Why, for all we know the notorious Wyls of Wyl lived in constant fear of The Lightning Lord. 8 hours ago, Ckram said: Regarding the third reason you pointed for Edric's stay in Blackhaven (and its comparison with Aegon VI), I imagine that he would be exposed to all of this even if he were a page and squire at the Westerlands, Riverlands, Crownlands or the Vale, where his House has no obvious enemies. He certainly would have, which makes Edric'sstatus as page and eventual squire even weirder... 8 hours ago, Ckram said: As for the political reasons, I can't see House Dayne wanting/needing an political alliance with a Marcher Lord which they don't share borders or, worse, with the usurper king. On the other Hand, I bet that Baristan Selmy is the last person they wanna hear of; Ser Arthur died fulfilling his duties and there goes Barristan, joyfully serving the usurper. We can't be sure of anything regarding characters we haven't seen yet, I'm merely offering some potential avenues to look at. We don't even know who this mysterious House Dayne consists of, other that Edric, Allyria and Gerold, who's making the decisions? And how do we know they would have hostilities to Barristan? "They" don't seem to have hostilities towards Eddard, and he apparently did alot more damage to the Daynes than Selmy. Any alliance can seem useful to houses playing the game... 8 hours ago, Ckram said: However I still can't figure the reason why Edric was sent to Blackhaven. And what bothers me the most is that Edric was Lord of Starfall. I agree dude, a young Lord from a legendary house being sent to page at a castle in hostile territory, I don't think this gets enough attention! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion92 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 I think George is grooming Lord Edric Dayne as the new Vulture King in the Red Mountains. Here is what happened at the First Vulture Hunt: The Vulture King was a Dornish outlaw who gathered thousands of followers to rise against King Aenys I. He scored a number of early victories against the marcher lords, as Deria Martell, Princess of Dorne, largely ignored the insurrection, leading to the Vulture King's support swelling up to nearly thirty thousand strong. King Aenys was ineffective at dealing with this crisis, as he was with others that spread throughout the Seven Kingdoms, which Dorne was not yet part of. The former Hand of the King, Lord Orys Baratheon, along with the marcher lords—foremost among them Lord Sam Tarly—managed to hunt down the rebels of the self-proclaimed outlaw king. Savage Sam's blade, Heartsbane, is said to have been red from the blood of Dornishmen. Replace Vulture King with Edric Dayne, King Aenys I with King Tommen I, Deria Martell with Doran Martell, and Orys Baratheon and Sam Tarly with Jon Connington and Randyll Tarly, and it just gives me some red flags on what is about to happen in Red Mountains of Dorne. Even the part about Dornishmen chopping off Orys Baratheon's hand might point you to Jon Connington's greyscale arm. I think George is setting up something major in Red Mountains of Dorne. I assume that since Edric Dayne and part of Brotherhood left Riverlands once Lady Stoneheart took over, the most logical thing for Edric and Anguy to do would be to take Beric's body to Blackhaven, and the story from there can escalate, especially since Golden Company has landed in Stormlands, and there is a conflict brewing between Tyrell/Lannister regime and Jon Connington's forces. It will be a perfect spot to jumpstart another branch of Brotherhood without Banner that will fight against both sides and try to save the countryside and small folk. Add the ironborn invasion of the Reach, and we have Red Mountains as a perfect spot for Edric to be Vulture King 2.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 8 hours ago, No one is here said: What if Edric was given up as a ward (hostage) by House Dayne as fealty after the rebellion and they were forced to marry a Dayne daughter to one of the Reacher Lords? It makes sense for Robert B to distrust the Daynes (for a number of reasons; i.e. Arthur Dayne Rhaegar's bestie, ect). It has me wondering if that was part of the infamous "Jon Arryn deal" that he cut with Dorn after the rebellion was won by Robert. Having the heir to Starfall in the Stormlands should keep the Daynes in line. It would be interesting to go back and try to find out if there are any other heirs from the Dornish high lords that are being held as captives right after the war ended. I have always wondered what Jon Arryn did/said that made the Dornish lay down their spears. It's not like Dornish history is not littered with examples of them surviving as underdogs in war. Maybe it was simply forcing Dorn to give up high value political hostages. Edric wasn't born until four or five years after Arthur's death at the Tower of Joy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No one is here Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 25 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: Edric wasn't born until four or five years after Arthur's death at the Tower of Joy. Thanks for clearing that up! That doesn't blow the possibility out of the water, though. I'm thinking with the way Beric had Edric at court in KL, the joining of the 2 Houses was common knowledge, yet no one else in the story seemed to be bothered enough by it to comment about it after 5 books. I do not remember very many Dornishmen at court during King Robert's reign, so if there was something suspicious or odd about that particular match I would think it would have stood out in a court full of Westermen, Stormlanders and Valemen. (And, The Daynes are mentioned A LOT in the novels!) That leads me to thinking that maybe The Daynes had to agree to allow their next male-born heir to foster in the Stormlands and have marry a daughter into a Stormlord family (possibly of their choosing?) as part of the Jon Arryn - Martell Truce. Why else would such an ancient House attach themselves in such a way to, what seems to me, as a lesser House from a hostile kingdom? Maybe it is punishment/fealty. Makes sense to me and would be consistent with the way politics in Westeros functions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ckram Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 On 13/06/2017 at 3:20 PM, Leo of House Cartel said: While not famous enough to be known to people from other regions, such as Eddard, Edmure or Tywin, young Beric could have been held in high esteem by his fellow Marcher Lords. He could be the veteran of numerous battles along the borderlands. The problem I see here is that we have nothing more than scornful judgements on Beric's history. And even now, four books later, not a single mention of a past feat. On 13/06/2017 at 3:20 PM, Leo of House Cartel said: Why, for all we know the notorious Wyls of Wyl lived in constant fear of The Lightning Lord. Do we? To me, the Wyls not seemed to mind the Dondarrions when they decided to capture and hold Aemon the Dragon Knight in a cage. On 13/06/2017 at 3:20 PM, Leo of House Cartel said: We can't be sure of anything regarding characters we haven't seen yet, I'm merely offering some potential avenues to look at. We don't even know who this mysterious House Dayne consists of, other that Edric, Allyria and Gerold, who's making the decisions? And how do we know they would have hostilities to Barristan? "They" don't seem to have hostilities towards Eddard, and he apparently did alot more damage to the Daynes than Selmy. Any alliance can seem useful to houses playing the game... You went too defensive here, friend. I base my comments on analogies and assumptions, nothing more. My feeling is that Daynes would dislike Barristan this bad because he was Arthur's sworn brother who dishonored their vows. Eddard, on the other hand, was not an personal enemy of Arthur's which proved himself to be an honored adversary. On 13/06/2017 at 5:36 PM, Scorpion92 said: I assume that since Edric Dayne and part of Brotherhood left Riverlands once Lady Stoneheart took over, the most logical thing for Edric and Anguy to do would be to take Beric's body to Blackhaven, and the story from there can escalate, especially since Golden Company has landed in Stormlands, and there is a conflict brewing between Tyrell/Lannister regime and Jon Connington's forces. It will be a perfect spot to jumpstart another branch of Brotherhood without Banner that will fight against both sides and try to save the countryside and small folk. Add the ironborn invasion of the Reach, and we have Red Mountains as a perfect spot for Edric to be Vulture King 2.0. JonCon and Golden Company are moving North (King's Landing) and are counting on Dorne. Althought I think it's plausible that Edric and Anguy are together and delivering Beric's body in Blackhaven, I can't see why they would fight against the son of Elia and Rhaegar. Before you guys continue, I have a question: Edric is with Dondarrion since her aunt was betrothed, in 294 AC. In AGOT (298 AC), Beric left Blachaven to not come back for good. But until then he could have married Edric's aunt, though he did not. Isn't it a sign that maybe Edric's aunt is a young girl that hasn't flowered before AGOT? In other words, a girl about Edric's age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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