Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 15 minutes ago, Week said: "Trump that Bitch" truly is the "I like Ike" of the new millennium. The misogyny is primary. I think someone can turn a pretty penny on these in 2020... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Trump continues to hire "the very best". /Jesus, where does he find these clowns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Altherion said: I have not heard the second one before so I don't think it got a great deal of traction. The first one was indeed widespread, but the sexism there is secondary: it worked well mainly because it a good pun and good puns usually make good slogans (they're quite popular in the history of American presidential campaigns). What's the male equivalent of 'bitch'? Would it make as popular a slogan among the target for the bitch slogan? 'bastard', 'asshole', 'dick(head)', 'douchebag', 'prick'? I think when you consider the masculine equivalents to bitch, there's less social acceptability for using those terms as political slogans. Which in itself is misogynistic. So I don't think you can readily argue that the misogyny of it is secondary. It works as a pun precisely because of the misogyny of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Week said: "Trump that Bitch" truly is the "I like Ike" of the new millennium. "I like Ike" is not a pun (but it's a nice rhyme). Slogans with puns include "We Polked you in '44, We shall Pierce you in '52", "Grant Us Another Term" and "Dewey or don't we." 13 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said: What's the male equivalent of 'bitch'? Would it make as popular a slogan among the target for the bitch slogan? 'bastard', 'asshole', 'dick(head)', 'douchebag', 'prick'? I think when you consider the masculine equivalents to bitch, there's less social acceptability for using those terms as political slogans. Which in itself is misogynistic. So I don't think you can readily argue that the misogyny of it is secondary. It works as a pun precisely because of the misogyny of it. No, it would work as pun (Trump that... or Trump the...) regardless. It's just that the specific word used works well: it's vulgar, but not too vulgar, it's short and it leaves no question regarding the identity of the person it is referring to. The words you quote mostly don't work as political slogans, but it's not because of gender differences. All but two of them are long, unwieldy and don't rhyme with anything notable (what rhymes with "douchebag"?). "Dick" saw considerable usage in the sense that you mean when Nixon was around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 9 minutes ago, Altherion said: "I like Ike" is not a pun (but it's a nice rhyme). Slogans with puns include "We Polked you in '44, We shall Pierce you in '52", "Grant Us Another Term" and "Dewey or don't we." No, it would work as pun (Trump that... or Trump the...) regardless. It's just that the specific word used works well: it's vulgar, but not too vulgar, it's short and it leaves no question regarding the identity of the person it is referring to. The words you quote mostly don't work as political slogans, but it's not because of gender differences. All but two of them are long, unwieldy and don't rhyme with anything notable (what rhymes with "douchebag"?). "Dick" saw considerable usage in the sense that you mean when Nixon was around. Huh? How is calling a woman 'bitch' not 'too' vulgar? What the fuck is the 'pun' in this situation? It's blatant misogyny. And that's just taking it at face value and not in the context of the most bigot-friendly presidential candidacy in my lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 12 minutes ago, Altherion said: No, it would work as pun (Trump that... or Trump the...) regardless. It's just that the specific word used works well: it's vulgar, but not too vulgar, it's short and it leaves no question regarding the identity of the person it is referring to. It's pretty damn offensive methinks, due to the sexist nature of the word, They very easily could've went with Trump Crooked Hillary and had the same level of identity. The only increased level of indentification here is wanting to identify as being sexist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 It only works as a pun if one is an misogynistic asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 45 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: It's pretty damn offensive methinks, due to the sexist nature of the word, They very easily could've went with Trump Crooked Hillary and had the same level of identity. Try chanting "Trump Crooked Hillary" -- it's 5 syllables (instead of 3) and there's no rhythm to it whatsoever. And yes, it is offensive, but it is the right level of offensiveness for a secondary slogan. The primary one was "Make America Great Again" and I don't think Trump himself ever used the more risque ones. However, it is not the most offensive of curses: even among the gendered ones, there is at least one which is more vulgar. 56 minutes ago, larrytheimp said: What the fuck is the 'pun' in this situation? The pun is in the word "Trump." One the one hand, it is the last name of the candidate, but on the other, it means: ... verb (used with object) 3. Cards. to take with a trump. 4. to excel; surpass; outdo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 9 minutes ago, Altherion said: Try chanting "Trump Crooked Hillary" -- it's 5 syllables (instead of 3) and there's no rhythm to it whatsoever. And yes, it is offensive, but it is the right level of offensiveness for a secondary slogan. The primary one was "Make America Great Again" and I don't think Trump himself ever used the more risque ones. However, it is not the most offensive of curses: even among the gendered ones, there is at least one which is more vulgar. Ah yes, so in the interest of brevity and rhythm, it's totally cool and justifiable. /Next time you're having a discussion with a woman in your life, go ahead and refer to them as a bitch. Let us know how that goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mord Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 It has been a while. Nice to see some things nevertheless change. Of course it's a pun without the word "bitch", and of course it's misogynistic regardless of its being a pun, or brief, or whatever. There is no gender-associated word equivalent for referring to males, and if there were, we shouldn't use it. We ought not employ a person's gender against him or her, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Altherion said: "I like Ike" is not a pun (but it's a nice rhyme). Slogans with puns include "We Polked you in '44, We shall Pierce you in '52", "Grant Us Another Term" and "Dewey or don't we." No, it would work as pun (Trump that... or Trump the...) regardless. It's just that the specific word used works well: it's vulgar, but not too vulgar, it's short and it leaves no question regarding the identity of the person it is referring to. The words you quote mostly don't work as political slogans, but it's not because of gender differences. All but two of them are long, unwieldy and don't rhyme with anything notable (what rhymes with "douchebag"?). "Dick" saw considerable usage in the sense that you mean when Nixon was around. 1 hour ago, larrytheimp said: Huh? How is calling a woman 'bitch' not 'too' vulgar? What the fuck is the 'pun' in this situation? It's blatant misogyny. And that's just taking it at face value and not in the context of the most bigot-friendly presidential candidacy in my lifetime. That's exactly what I mean when I say that the social acceptance of the word as being "not too vulgar" is in itself misogynistic. And how does "bitch" rhyme with "Trump"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 46 minutes ago, Altherion said: Try chanting "Trump Crooked Hillary" -- it's 5 syllables (instead of 3) and there's no rhythm to it whatsoever. And yes, it is offensive, but it is the right level of offensiveness for a secondary slogan. The primary one was "Make America Great Again" and I don't think Trump himself ever used the more risque ones. However, it is not the most offensive of curses: even among the gendered ones, there is at least one which is more vulgar. The pun is in the word "Trump." One the one hand, it is the last name of the candidate, but on the other, it means: ... verb (used with object) 3. Cards. to take with a trump. 4. to excel; surpass; outdo. Keep digging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 59 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Ah yes, so in the interest of brevity and rhythm, it's totally cool and justifiable. /Next time you're having a discussion with a woman in your life, go ahead and refer to them as a bitch. Let us know how that goes. There is a difference between language that I personally use and phrases that make for good political propaganda. It is very rare for me to use profanity at all (I think I've managed to avoid doing so in this thread), but that doesn't mean that I can't acknowledge when it is being used effectively. 41 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said: And how does "bitch" rhyme with "Trump"? It doesn't have to -- if it did, the slogan would both rhyme and be a pun so it would be even better, but in general either one of the two is enough and in this case it's a pun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Altherion said: There is a difference between language that I personally use and phrases that make for good political propaganda. It is very rare for me to use profanity at all (I think I've managed to avoid doing so in this thread), but that doesn't mean that I can't acknowledge when it is being used effectively. offensively Fixed it for you, even tho, apparently, you can't. No profanity? Not directly by indirect means you sure have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, Altherion said: There is a difference between language that I personally use and phrases that make for good political propaganda. It is very rare for me to use profanity at all (I think I've managed to avoid doing so in this thread), but that doesn't mean that I can't acknowledge when it is being used effectively. It doesn't have to -- if it did, the slogan would both rhyme and be a pun so it would be even better, but in general either one of the two is enough and in this case it's a pun. So by this metric "Trump that C#%t" would've been more effective. It almost rhymes. I wonder why they didn't go with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 17 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: So by this metric "Trump that C#%t" would've been more effective. It almost rhymes. I wonder why they didn't go with that? Some did go with that and statements with the "C" word. But hey, just good politicking by Altherion's metrics. And the misogyny? Seems to be a feature, not a bug since its oh so clever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 18 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said: No profanity? Not directly by indirect means you sure have. Sure, but it's impossible to avoid indirect references when discussing profane propaganda. 16 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: So by this metric "Trump that C#%t" would've been more effective. It almost rhymes. I wonder why they didn't go with that? Two reasons. First, it's too offensive. Slogans must walk the middle ground between blandness (e.g. practically any of Clinton's slogans) and being shocking (the one in your quote). A few people might be able to tolerate it, but not enough for it to be widespread. Second, it doesn't quite rhyme -- almost usually doesn't count. I suspect that if any word such as lump, grump, dump, etc. could have been associated with Clinton in some way, it would have been used instead. However, there is no word that both rhymes and has the requisite association. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawkcabi Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Who's got the sweetest disposition? Proof Donald IS a puppet!!! Also, "Dumb Donald" is all ready a coined nick name. He was one of Fat Albert & the Cosby Kids, the one with the hat that covered most his face, no, not Mushmouth, he was the one with the poof ball hat that was not pulled down over his face, yellow shirt, scarf, and buck teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Trump that bitch doesn't exactly straddle the line between bland and shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 No way would 'lump, grump, or dump would have been used. The slogan was a misogynistic insult to Clinton. Stop tying to white-wash for fucks sake. It fits right in with Trump's racism and white supremacist bullshit, part and parcel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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