Is House Tully the weakest Liege Lords in the entire kingdom?

[Rickon Stark The Aulë]

5 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Where is it stated that they can raise more than the rest of the Reach combined? 

I think I heard or read it somewhere, I will have to double check but I'm at least 99% sure that the Hightowers can raise a lot more men than the Tyrells. 

 

 

 

 

[Adam Yozza]

4 hours ago, Rickon Stark The Aulë said:

I think I heard or read it somewhere, I will have to double check but I'm at least 99% sure that the Hightowers can raise a lot more men than the Tyrells. 

 

 

 

 

They can raise more men than the Tyrell's, meaning that the Hightowers themselves and their direct vassals can raise more men than the Tyrell's own levies. Similar to how the Bolton's can raise more men than the Stark's, or the Frey's to the Tullies.

That doesn't equate to controlling half the military might of the Reach.

[Free Northman Reborn]

The quote you are remembering is that they can raise 3 times as many men as any other Tyrell vassal. Most people read that in conjunction with a reasonable estimate that they can raise in the region of 15-20k men, putting the next strongest Reach lord at around 5-6k in strength.

[Silverfang]

The tully's aren't the weakest there just the most vulnerable, the riverlands is in the middle of the country and most battles are fought on there lands. Then there is the fact that half of the riverlands are called the crownlands meaning some are direct vassels of kings landing. In all honesty the only house in the riverlands to be disloyal to the Tullys were the Frey's which is why they've always had such a bad reputation even before the war of five kings.

[cpg2016]

8 minutes ago, Silverfang said:

The tully's aren't the weakest there just the most vulnerable, the riverlands is in the middle of the country and most battles are fought on there lands. Then there is the fact that half of the riverlands are called the crownlands meaning some are direct vassels of kings landing. In all honesty the only house in the riverlands to be disloyal to the Tullys were the Frey's which is why they've always had such a bad reputation even before the war of five kings.

They are the weakest, in addition to being the most vulnerable.  And the Crownlands are the Crownlands, they aren't "half" the Riverlands, it's a totally separate region dominated by the Blackwater and not the Trident.

The Tully's are weak for a bunch of reasons.  They have relatively powerful vassals at the Twins and Harrenhal (which they don't have enfeudation rights over, to boot).  They have a historically fractious region riven by the Blackwood/Bracken feud (which has caused many of the invasions of the Riverlands, historically, including the Stormlands invasion 400 BC and the Hoare's intervention 100 BC).  Geographically, they're in a bad spot to control their region; they aren't on any of the major trade or transportation arteries (like Casterly Rock and Sunspear are), they aren't close to the geographic center of their realm the way Highgarden, the Eyrie, or Winterfell are.

[Graydon Hicks]

9 hours ago, cpg2016 said:

They are the weakest, in addition to being the most vulnerable.  And the Crownlands are the Crownlands, they aren't "half" the Riverlands, it's a totally separate region dominated by the Blackwater and not the Trident.

The Tully's are weak for a bunch of reasons.  They have relatively powerful vassals at the Twins and Harrenhal (which they don't have enfeudation rights over, to boot).  They have a historically fractious region riven by the Blackwood/Bracken feud (which has caused many of the invasions of the Riverlands, historically, including the Stormlands invasion 400 BC and the Hoare's intervention 100 BC).  Geographically, they're in a bad spot to control their region; they aren't on any of the major trade or transportation arteries (like Casterly Rock and Sunspear are), they aren't close to the geographic center of their realm the way Highgarden, the Eyrie, or Winterfell are.

originally, the northern half of the crownlands did belong to the riverlands, while under the rule of house hoare of the ironborn, while the southern half had belonged to the stormlands. when aegon began his conqueroring, he split those chunks off and place them under direct royal administration, rather than leave them to their traditional ruling houses.

and i agree about the general vulnerability of the tullys. and they likely dont have the sort of centuries built up loyalty to call on that the truly ancient houses like the starks, arryns, and lannisters can call on. they were raised from relative obscurity by aegon to be LP for being the first riverlord house to bend the knee to him. and most of the old, powerful house, like close to a millennia old and still powerful, are gone, killed off by the andal invasion, the stormlords, and the ironborn. everything left is either too young, or too small, to really call on that kind of support.

and while the tyrells are also a recently raised house to LP, they were still old and strongly tied to the gardners, if not as strongly by blood as the florents and others. but they had the needed history, and took advantage of the opportunity afforded by the conquest.

the baratheons are also old, if not in name. their house is originally the durrandons, then orrys married into it, and co-opted the sigil and words while changing the house name. so it can still be considered the historically royal house of the stormlands. 

[The Hoare]

10 hours ago, Graydon Hicks said:

 and most of the old, powerful house, like close to a millennia old and still powerful, are gone, killed off by the andal invasion, the stormlords, and the ironborn. everything left is either too young, or too small, to really call on that kind of support.

Not really. The Mootons, Darrys, Brackens and Blackwoods all have their origins before the arrival of the andals, and the Mallisters and Vances are andals themselves. Some of them used to be kings.

Among the great houses of the RL, only the Freys and whatever ruled Harrenhall were members of the "new nobility".

[cpg2016]

10 hours ago, Graydon Hicks said:

originally, the northern half of the crownlands did belong to the riverlands, while under the rule of house hoare of the ironborn, while the southern half had belonged to the stormlands. when aegon began his conqueroring, he split those chunks off and place them under direct royal administration, rather than leave them to their traditional ruling houses.

And before that?  You say "originally" but only go back 400 years, which is what? 5% of the extant timeline?  Before the Hoare's, the Durrandons ruled the Riverlands and the Crownlands, so there was no distinction at all.

At the end of the day, the river in "Riverlands" is the Trident.  Which, no coincidentally, is exactly what the Riverlands as a political unit encompasses.

[Graydon Hicks]

im just going off the information that was in the world book. before the conquest, their were no crownlands. so those territories had to sliced off from somewhere.