Jaime L Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, sperry said: I mean it's not remotely close. Horry was a defensive specialist who was never a very good offensive player but hit some big shots in the playoffs. Andre Iguodala was a multiple time All-star and NBA finals MVP. If you look at Igoudala's stats and role, isn't he having a Ginobili like career? Both critical off-the bench cogs to multiple title teams. Ginobili scored more, but Igoudala's better defensively. If he has a few more productive years with Golden State, I'd look at him at that level legacy-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 1 minute ago, sperry said: He doesn't average 34 minutes a game. He's a role player. He's a great guy to have on your team. He's not a great to have on your team on a $20 million contract. He averaged 30 in the playoffs. I don't think you have to pay him 20 mill. Maybe 16-18, and with this expanded cap, I think he's worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 20 minutes ago, Jaime L said: If you look at Igoudala's stats and role, isn't he having a Ginobili like career? Both critical off-the bench cogs to multiple title teams. Ginobili scored more, but Igoudala's better defensively. If he has a few more productive years with Golden State, I'd look at him at that level legacy-wise. Yeah, I think that's a great comparison. It won't reach those heights if he goes elsewhere, but he's been as important to this team as Ginoblii was to the Spurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 32 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Yeah, I think that's a great comparison. It won't reach those heights if he goes elsewhere, but he's been as important to this team as Ginoblii was to the Spurs. Yep and he also led that Nuggets team to 57 wins. A shame he spent the first 9 years of his career miscast as a #1 on some awful 76ers teams. Course he's gotten all the winning a guy could want these last 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 17 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: And just to clarify, please don't take this as sarcasm. I'm being completely sincere here. Listening to you and @Jaime L breakdown the Wiz is one of my guilty pleasures here. Oh, no offense taken. If people dont want to hear the random musings or random fans, they're in the wrong place. I enjoy hearing from fans of lower profile teams like the TWolves, Rockets and Raptors. If only we could get a couple of Bucks and Pelicans fans in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 10 hours ago, Jaime L said: If you look at Igoudala's stats and role, isn't he having a Ginobili like career? Both critical off-the bench cogs to multiple title teams. Ginobili scored more, but Igoudala's better defensively. If he has a few more productive years with Golden State, I'd look at him at that level legacy-wise. I am a big Iguodala fan, but this seems like a stretch. Ginobili was part of the Big 3 in San Antonio that won 3 championships (and then another once Leonard joined). Iguodala won NBA finals MVP because all of GSWs stars played kinda bad in the Finals, and he succeeded in the thankless task of trying to slow down Lebron. But he was the fifth best player on that 2015 team, and it's not like he was past his prime by then (he was 31 at the time). In comparison, Ginobili was the third best player on those Spurs championship teams. That's a big difference. I would actually compare Iguodala to a different member of those Spurs squads: Bruce Bowen. Iguodala is more versatile offensively, and has less of a reputation for dirty tricks, but they did mostly the same job. Both even covered Lebron in an NBA Finals while letting their teammates shoulder the load offensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 43 minutes ago, Maithanet said: I am a big Iguodala fan, but this seems like a stretch. Ginobili was part of the Big 3 in San Antonio that won 3 championships (and then another once Leonard joined). Iguodala won NBA finals MVP because all of GSWs stars played kinda bad in the Finals, and he succeeded in the thankless task of trying to slow down Lebron. But he was the fifth best player on that 2015 team, and it's not like he was past his prime by then (he was 31 at the time). In comparison, Ginobili was the third best player on those Spurs championship teams. That's a big difference. I would actually compare Iguodala to a different member of those Spurs squads: Bruce Bowen. Iguodala is more versatile offensively, and has less of a reputation for dirty tricks, but they did mostly the same job. Both even covered Lebron in an NBA Finals while letting their teammates shoulder the load offensively. 5th best? He was the Warriors 4th best player in 2015. And of course the best player on the Finals in that critical first title. Keep in mind also, he's spent his whole Warriors tenure outside his prime. Comparing him to Bruce Bowen is a slap in the face. Igoudala's been a way better offensive player for his career. Bruce Bowen averaged 1 APG for his career. Igoudala is at 5. One was a pure defensive specialist. The other does a little bit of everything to help the Warriors. Look at Iggy's career numbers, they're basically right in line with Ginobili's. I'll grant you Ginobili was a bit more important to those Spurs titles teams, mostly because the Spurs were so offensively starved and the Warriors are so loaded. It's not a perfect analogue. But just thinking more of what level of player Iggy's been for his career. And if you look at advanced stats like VORP or win shares the two are pretty much right in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jaime L said: 5th best? He was the Warriors 4th best player in 2015. And of course the best player on the Finals in that critical first title. Keep in mind also, he's spent his whole Warriors tenure outside his prime. Comparing him to Bruce Bowen is a slap in the face. Igoudala's been a way better offensive player for his career. Bruce Bowen averaged 1 APG for his career. Igoudala is at 5. One was a pure defensive specialist. The other does a little bit of everything to help the Warriors. Look at Iggy's career numbers, they're basically right in line with Ginobili's. I'll grant you Ginobili was a bit more important to those Spurs titles teams, mostly because the Spurs were so offensively starved and the Warriors are so loaded. It's not a perfect analogue. But just thinking more of what level of player Iggy's been for his career. And if you look at advanced stats like VORP or win shares the two are pretty much right in line. Iguodala is better than Bowen offensively, no doubt. But Bowen is probably a better defender, with eight first/second team ALl-NBA defense teams vs only two for Iguodala. And Bowen's a better 3 point shooter (39% career vs 33% for Iguodala). That's also true in the playoffs (42% vs 35%). I don't think comparing the two is an insult at all. Bowen is the kind of player that always helps win championships, as is Iguodala. I said 5th best because of how important Bogut was to that GSW team in 2015, although his importance was bigger in the regular season than the postseason, and has been largely forgotten now. And yes, Iguodala was huge, absolutely essential in that 2015 championship. The adage "the NBA is cruel to the young" is very apt. Talented as that GSW team was, I think it was only a combination of good injury luck and Andre Iguodala's versatility that won that championship in 2015. I think that team would have fallen to the 2014 Spurs, the 2016 Thunder or the 2016 Cavs. But they didn't have to play any of those teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinker Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Woj reporting Jackson is looking into trading Porzingis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 18 minutes ago, Tinker said: Woj reporting Jackson is looking into trading Porzingis Just came here to post that as well. Only the Knicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 Getting pumped for this draft, despite the Warriors having no pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Maithanet said: Iguodala is better than Bowen offensively, no doubt. But Bowen is probably a better defender, with eight first/second team ALl-NBA defense teams vs only two for Iguodala. And Bowen's a better 3 point shooter (39% career vs 33% for Iguodala). That's also true in the playoffs (42% vs 35%). I don't think comparing the two is an insult at all. Bowen is the kind of player that always helps win championships, as is Iguodala. I said 5th best because of how important Bogut was to that GSW team in 2015, although his importance was bigger in the regular season than the postseason, and has been largely forgotten now. And yes, Iguodala was huge, absolutely essential in that 2015 championship. The adage "the NBA is cruel to the young" is very apt. Talented as that GSW team was, I think it was only a combination of good injury luck and Andre Iguodala's versatility that won that championship in 2015. I think that team would have fallen to the 2014 Spurs, the 2016 Thunder or the 2016 Cavs. But they didn't have to play any of those teams. Bowen was more dominant defensively, no question, though the era probably played something into that. But they're just different guys IMO. Bowen's always been a pure role guy whereas Igoudala's a semi-star who subsumed his game in order to best help the Warriors. Like let me put it this way - if you put Bowen on that 2013 Nuggets team he's not going to be the difference maker who gets 'em to 57 wins. He just doesn't have that kind of ability. But if you don't like Ginobili as a comparison, just thought of a better one - Ron Artest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, Jaime L said: But if you don't like Ginobili as a comparison, just thought of a better one - Ron Artest. I don't know. I doubt Iggy ever saw a guy get stabbed in the heart with a broken table leg on the basketball court. Think I would've heard about that. http://deadspin.com/5243915/ron-artest-once-saw-a-guy-get-stabbed-in-the-heart-update-for-real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: I don't know. I doubt Iggy ever saw a guy get stabbed in the heart with a broken table leg on the basketball court. Think I would've heard about that. http://deadspin.com/5243915/ron-artest-once-saw-a-guy-get-stabbed-in-the-heart-update-for-real Was this the event that catalyzed his evolution into Metta World Peace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Jaime L said: Was this the event that catalyzed his evolution into Metta World Peace? I guess we'll just have to wait for the movie to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Reports from at least one Chicago beat writer saying that Jimmy Butler might be trying to force a trade to the Cavs. Never thought I'd live to see the day where star NBA players are trying like hell to get to Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Lakers trading Deangelo Russell and Timofey Mozgov's bloated corpse of a contract for Brook Lopez and the 27th pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 Just now, sperry said: Lakers trading Deangelo Russell and Timofey Mozgov's bloated corpse of a contract for Brook Lopez and the 27th pick. Fuck. Likely means they're taking Ball, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Hilarious that they had to trade their number two pick from a couple of years ago to clear the salary of a guy they literally signed a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Russell never did fully recover from that phone thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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