'Watchmen' TV Series From Damon Lindelof on HBO {SPOILERS FROM PAGE 8}

[Calibandar]

Watchmen is a more interesting property than Wildcards to my mind, in terms of the story that was told.

I'm admittedly not very familiar with Wild Cards, I tried getting into it and it didn't stick with me. I would not be opposed to a Wild Cards series , definitely that too could be of interest, but I would not pick that over Watchmen.

The fact that there is an existing and well done film already may play into the HBO interest as well but mostly it will be because they are intrigued by the world of Watchmen.

[mormont]

3 hours ago, Calibandar said:

b) isn't otherwise going to see new books /comics so new interpretations are welcome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_Clock_(comics)

[Ran]

I had no idea that existed. How awful.

[Raja]

After The Leftovers, I'm 100 percent watching this - Lindelof did an excellent job with that series, and hopefully this will be good too. Can't wait. 

[Mexal]

2 minutes ago, Raja said:

After The Leftovers, I'm 100 percent watching this - Lindelof did an excellent job with that series, and hopefully this will be good too. Can't wait. 

Yea same. I have absolutely no feelings on Watchmen at all so if it's good, I'll watch it.

[Calibandar]

1 hour ago, mormont said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_Clock_(comics)

Nice, will look into that now.

[Raja]

34 minutes ago, Mexal said:

Yea same. I have absolutely no feelings on Watchmen at all so if it's good, I'll watch it.

Same. I've read the comic and enjoyed it but I don't have a particular attachment to it. Lindelof gets a lot of shit from people, but I think he's done some really good work recently. It has potential to be *really* good, and I hope it is. 

[polishgenius]

Haven't had a chance to read it yet but Doomsday Clock and the general tying in of Watchmen into the DCU is meant to be pretty damn good so there's that. The HBO show isn't going to have anything to do with it though I'd imagine.

[red snow]

9 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Haven't had a chance to read it yet but Doomsday Clock and the general tying in of Watchmen into the DCU is meant to be pretty damn good so there's that. The HBO show isn't going to have anything to do with it though I'd imagine.

Not unless they want to involve superman and batman at some stage. Although they could have had an utterly bizarre crossover with the arrow verse.

I've only read the "rebirth" story introducing the idea of doc Manhattan potentially creating the current iteration of DC comics. It's very fan centric but ticks the meta boxes of how "Watchmen" (and dark Knight returns) did essentially recreate DC comics (and other publishers) in the sense of it being ok to mature their characters and storytelling even if it often was ridiculous.

I do think that while it is a great graphic novel it is given far too much importance in the minds of comic fans and creators particularly with the need for wanting more of it. Alan Moore is cranky but he has a point that DC comics relies way too much on his work. They are doing the same with Gaiman's sandman but he is at least on board with it.

2 hours ago, Raja said:

After The Leftovers, I'm 100 percent watching this - Lindelof did an excellent job with that series, and hopefully this will be good too. Can't wait. 

Particularly because of the skill that show had of having characters do their own thing and only occasionally crossover with one another. I think that could work well with the various characters of Watchmen. I'm also intrigued by the idea of him creating new characters for the show

[Raja]

1 hour ago, red snow said:

Particularly because of the skill that show had of having characters do their own thing and only occasionally crossover with one another. I think that could work well with the various characters of Watchmen. I'm also intrigued by the idea of him creating new characters for the show

I'm just craving something other than Marvel/ DC stuff at the moment

[mormont]

3 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Haven't had a chance to read it yet but Doomsday Clock and the general tying in of Watchmen into the DCU is meant to be pretty damn good

That's... not really representative of the reviews I've read, but I haven't read it and probably never will.

[red snow]

16 hours ago, Raja said:

I'm just craving something other than Marvel/ DC stuff at the moment

It might be DC stuff depending on how the comics go. Although I think HBO will be sensible and make this self contained.

[john]

Surely there would be some kind of Warner Bros infringement if they touched on anything from mainstream DC.

From what I’ve seen of it the Doomsday Clock is interesting at least.  It’s a clever way to meld universes, having a more involved plot with mystery elements.

However, it’s definitely uncomfortable when you know it’s basically being rubbed in Moore’s face.  And it’s not just respect for the creator at play, it’s respect for the piece of work.  It is sort of the nature of big brand comics to just build on anything and everything though.

[Werthead]

On 8/24/2018 at 10:01 PM, john said:

Surely there would be some kind of Warner Bros infringement if they touched on anything from mainstream DC.

Warner Brothers own HBO (or, rather, they have the same parent companies), so the legal issues would not be too restrictive.

My sense is that the new Watchmen show will have nothing to do with the new DC crossover story, though.

[Werthead]

Some set photos.

Interesting.

Spoiler

It's definitely nothing to do with the Snyder movie, as the shots indicate the "squid ending" happened and the world is in fear of it happening again.

 

[AncalagonTheBlack]

‘Watchmen’ Shares First-Look Image: Who Is That Masked Man?

[red snow]

On 9/5/2018 at 4:33 PM, Werthead said:

Some set photos.

Interesting.

  Hide contents

It's definitely nothing to do with the Snyder movie, as the shots indicate the "squid ending" happened and the world is in fear of it happening again.

 

It definitely seems more sequel territory set in contemporary times than a remake of the original. Although I guess we can't discount flashbacks which cover the main events of the comic, it's a Lindelof thing too.

2 hours ago, AncalagonTheBlack said:

‘Watchmen’ Shares First-Look Image: Who Is That Masked Man?

Wild speculation is that there is a cult of Rorschach who have the files he left and are now a terrorist/guerilla/freedom fighting cell? Or the line between policing and vigilantism is blurred and we have police who can't be identified.

Either way I'm becoming more interested the more separated it appears to become from the comic

[Martini Sigil]

In regards to Alan Moore.....

 

.... fuck him.

 

He whines and complains every time they make a movie from one of his graphic novels.... I know he's the best at what he  does... but if he doesn't want his work to be interpreted by others, then he shouldn't sell the rights... *or*.... he should maintain creative control.... at this point he's just getting mileage from being a crotchety curmudgeon.... every time I hear him complain I feel like yanking that beard off his grumpy face.

[red snow]

52 minutes ago, Martini Sigil said:

In regards to Alan Moore.....

 

.... fuck him.

 

He whines and complains every time they make a movie from one of his graphic novels.... I know he's the best at what he  does... but if he doesn't want his work to be interpreted by others, then he shouldn't sell the rights... *or*.... he should maintain creative control.... at this point he's just getting mileage from being a crotchety curmudgeon.... every time I hear him complain I feel like yanking that beard off his grumpy face.

I think in fairness who doesn't allow adaptations of the comics he owns to be adapted anymore. The issue tends to be with the fact he doesn't have any creative say over watchmen been adapted - it's pretty clear he wouldn't if he could stop it and I don't think it's a case of him having sold the rights as I think he never had them. I can't remember the ins and outs of it but I do recall something about him not getting the rights back as long as the graphic novel remains in print which has never happened and is unlikely to happen. I think there's something suggesting he was screwed over? Someone else here might know more about it.

I'm all for taking the creator's wishes into consideration (and it's worth noting Dave Gibbons is usually cool with it) but at the same time the watchmen characters are based on pre-existing characters so I don't know what Moore's grounds are that DC/WB have to listen to him. That said he's more than free to state his dislike of the adaptations and he stands his ground and has his name removed and from what I recall he gives any money from his adaptations to the artist attached eg Gibbons.

I found this on wiki which shows why he's pissy about it all - DC screwed him over (like I said they claim that keeping the comic in print constitutes using the character)

"

Ownership disputes[edit]

Disagreements about the ownership of the story ultimately led Moore to sever ties with DC Comics.^[74] Not wanting to work under a work for hire arrangement, Moore and Gibbons had a reversion clause in their contract for Watchmen. Speaking at the 1985 San Diego Comic-Con, Moore said: "The way it works, if I understand it, is that DC owns it for the time they're publishing it, and then it reverts to Dave and me, so we can make all the money from the Slurpee cups."^[24] For Watchmen, Moore and Gibbons received eight percent of the series' earnings.^[22] Moore explained in 1986 that his understanding was that when "DC have not used the characters for a year, they're ours."^[16] Both Moore and Gibbons said DC paid them "a substantial amount of money" to retain the rights. Moore added, "So basically they're not ours, but if DC is working with the characters in our interests then they might as well be. On the other hand, if the characters have outlived their natural life span and DC doesn't want to do anything with them, then after a year we've got them and we can do what we want with them, which I'm perfectly happy with."^[16]

Moore said he left DC in 1989 due to the language in his contracts for Watchmen and his V for Vendetta series with artist David Lloyd. Moore felt the reversion clauses were ultimately meaningless because DC did not intend to let the publications go out of print. He told The New York Times in 2006, "I said, 'Fair enough,' [...] 'You have managed to successfully swindle me, and so I will never work for you again.'"^[74] In 2000, Moore publicly distanced himself from DC's plans for a 15th anniversary Watchmen hardcover release as well as a proposed line of action figures from DC Direct. While DC wanted to mend its relationship with the writer, Moore felt the company was not treating him fairly in regards to his America's Best Comics imprint (launched under the WildStorm comic imprint, which was bought by DC in 1998; Moore was promised no direct interference by DC as part of the arrangement). Moore added, "As far as I'm concerned, the 15th anniversary of Watchmen is purely a 15th Anniversary of when DC managed to take the Watchmen property from me and Dave [Gibbons]."^[75] Soon afterward, DC Direct cancelled the Watchmen action-figure line, despite the company having displayed prototypes at the 2000 San Diego Comic-Con International. "

 

 

 

[Ran]

51 minutes ago, Martini Sigil said:

In regards to Alan Moore.....

On Watchmen, the issue is and always was that when he and Gibbons signed their contracts, the rights reverted when the work went out of print, and everyone involved believed that would be the case with the series as it had been with lots of other series. DC proceeded to keep it in print in perpetuity, however, because DC marketing saw an opportunity to dive into graphic novels, and so retained the rights in perpetuity over Moore's objections. It was unprecedented stuff.

With V for Vendetta, those rights were sold in 1988 when Moore was substantially more positive to the idea of film adaptations. Moore's opinions on adaptation of his works changed in the interim (see next entry). That said, he kept his mouth shut about that film entirely and was happy to leave it at that  until the producers made the mistake of falsely claiming he fully supported their adaptation, and then of course he set the record straight (and then some). So they kind of asked for it.

That leaves LoEG, which he sold rights to... and quickly became disenchanted with the whole Hollywood thing, not least when DC proved less than helpful when a yahoo sued Fox and Moore over the claim that they had stolen his idea. It's this that set him against film adaptations to begin with, but of course by that point DC had its claws on 

So, yeah, fuck Alan Moore for having the temerity to: a) sign a deal that was going to revert rights to him after the work was not in print, when at the time everyone -- DC included -- thought it'd  out of print in two years, only for DC (driven by its marketing arm)  doing exactly the thing no one thoguth would happen, and b) sign over movie rights when he liked the idea of film adaptations of his work only to change his mind when his first brush with actual adaptation made him realize it was not worth the trouble.

More saliently, fuck DC, fuck Lindelof, fuck all the scabs who worked on Before Watchmen and whatever other atrocities have been cooked up.

(And yes, after LoeG he hasn't sold any other rights, so far as I know. From Hell's rights were sold at the same time as LoEG, but stuff like Promethea and Tom Strong remains his entirely I think.)