'Watchmen' TV Series From Damon Lindelof on HBO {SPOILERS FROM PAGE 8}

[briantw]

12 hours ago, SerHaHa said:

Someone in the thread mentioned that only Dr. Manhattan has any real super powers?  Is that correct?  How does Sister Knight beat the crap out of men over 2x her size with absolute ease, and then shove the coffin as easily as she does, without any super powers?

In the comics, only Dr. Manhattan has any real powers.  The show is a direct sequel.

As to your question, it's a television show.  I wouldn't look too deeply into her flipping over a coffin or beating up dudes bigger than her in a series based on a comic book.  

[felice]

1 hour ago, briantw said:

In the comics, only Dr. Manhattan has any real powers.

Not quite - telepathy is a real thing in the Watchmen universe, albeit not an ability possessed by any of the main characters. Other psychic powers like telekinesis wouldn't be too much of a stretch. And with Manhattan-based tech advances, I'd be surprised if there hadn't been experiments in human genetic enhancement, any survivors of which would be adults by the time of the show.

[briantw]

1 hour ago, felice said:

Not quite - telepathy is a real thing in the Watchmen universe, albeit not an ability possessed by any of the main characters. Other psychic powers like telekinesis wouldn't be too much of a stretch. And with Manhattan-based tech advances, I'd be surprised if there hadn't been experiments in human genetic enhancement, any survivors of which would be adults by the time of the show.

Good point.  I remember something about Veidt using the brain of the world's most powerful psychic in his giant squid experiment.  Don't remember all the details since it's been ages since I read the comic, but yeah that was definitely a thing.

I guess what I meant is that Dr. Manhattan is essentially the only actual superhero.  The rest of the crime fighters are just vigilantes sans powers like Batman.

Anyway, the basic point is that I don't think that Angela tipping over a coffin or beating up criminals a little bigger than her is meant to be any indication that she has superpowers.  Pretty sure I could tip over a coffin with a 200ish pound dude in it, and presumably someone who dresses up in a costume and fights crime is stronger than I am, male or female.

[James Arryn]

30 minutes ago, briantw said:

Good point.  I remember something about Veidt using the brain of the world's most powerful psychic in his giant squid experiment.  Don't remember all the details since it's been ages since I read the comic, but yeah that was definitely a thing.

I guess what I meant is that Dr. Manhattan is essentially the only actual superhero.  The rest of the crime fighters are just vigilantes sans powers like Batman.

Anyway, the basic point is that I don't think that Angela tipping over a coffin or beating up criminals a little bigger than her is meant to be any indication that she has superpowers.  Pretty sure I could tip over a coffin with a 200ish pound dude in it, and presumably someone who dresses up in a costume and fights crime is stronger than I am, male or female.

Not likely, unless you’re below average strength. Men are on average ~ 2.5x stronger than women in the upper body...which is a hell of a lot. It’s closer in lower body, but still a pretty significant advantage. She’d kick your ass, though, but pure strength it’s unlikely you’d be weaker assuming you are somewhere around average. 

[DMC]

I thought the stupid part of the funeral scene wasn't Angela's ability to tip over the coffin - as others have said it's a damn TV show based on comic books.  Rather, once Jean Smart shoots the dude, everybody should have just started running.  Considering how much time it took Angela to throw the body in the grave and put the coffin on top, seems pretty clear everyone would have been well out of range of the blast if they just moved their asses.

[briantw]

48 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Not likely, unless you’re below average strength. Men are on average ~ 2.5x stronger than women in the upper body...which is a hell of a lot. It’s closer in lower body, but still a pretty significant advantage. She’d kick your ass, though, but pure strength it’s unlikely you’d be weaker assuming you are somewhere around average. 

Fair enough.  My point was that I didn't find it to be terribly outlandish for her to flip the coffin.  Presumably she spends a lot of time training.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Is this a show someone could get into even if they didn't like the movie?

[DMC]

15 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Is this a show someone could get into even if they didn't like the movie?

It's very different than the movie, yes.  I'd say one's enjoyment is much more dependent on if you like Lindelof's style.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

15 minutes ago, DMC said:

It's very different than the movie, yes.  I'd say one's enjoyment is much more dependent on if you like Lindelof's style.

I am the rare person who liked Prometheus, but I haven't seen much else of his work. I'll give the first episode a shot. Worst outcome is I lose an hour of my life. 

[Astromech]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

I thought the stupid part of the funeral scene wasn't Angela's ability to tip over the coffin - as others have said it's a damn TV show based on comic books.  Rather, once Jean Smart shoots the dude, everybody should have just started running.  Considering how much time it took Angela to throw the body in the grave and put the coffin on top, seems pretty clear everyone would have been well out of range of the blast if they just moved their asses.

I couldn't believe how terrible the security was at that funeral.

[DMC]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I am the rare person who liked Prometheus, but I haven't seen much else of his work.

Me too!  Still though, I'd venture to say the first three eps are of a higher quality in terms of Lindelof's style.  Plus if you love random crazy scenes with Jeremy Irons, you should be all about this show.

6 minutes ago, Astromech said:

I couldn't believe how terrible the security was at that funeral.

Yeah the entire scene was poorly contrived and C-movie-ish.  Had both my brother and I rolling our eyes.  But I guess Crawford's body had to be obliterated somehow.

[Zorral]

I knew she'd throw the body into the grave about four beats before it happened.  When the coffin followed, it seemed to make sense -- trying to damp down the explosion as much as possible.

I knew she was going to do it because I was watching a tv show made from a comic book -- so the funeral attendees didn't have my advantage to start running.  What I was also doing was admiring Angela's quick thinking.

That FBI Silk -- she doesn't seem to think very much.  Just acts and creates more chaos.  Whatever. Nevermind -- I'm a thorough unsullied by either comic or film, so a whole lot of things just don't make me ask questions.

[Paxter]

For mine, Silk Spectre has instantly turned this show from "interesting" to "great". Funny and bad ass. And a nice foil for Sister Night. 

Also, watching Irons dictate a letter to L'amour est un oiseau rebelle was perfect TV. 

[red snow]

7 hours ago, Paxter said:

For mine, Silk Spectre has instantly turned this show from "interesting" to "great". Funny and bad ass. And a nice foil for Sister Night. 

Also, watching Irons dictate a letter to L'amour est un oiseau rebelle was perfect TV. 

I think her arrival has tipped it over. Also the not surprising revelation that irons is ozymandias and active acknowledgement of dr Manhattan just makes the show feel like a genuine sequel instead of a "just using the name for marketing".

Irons is doing a great job of almost comedic scenes while maintaining the sinister undertones. It's like ozymandias is just playing a game and passing time as he's bored 

[Paxter]

6 hours ago, red snow said:

I think her arrival has tipped it over. Also the not surprising revelation that irons is ozymandias and active acknowledgement of dr Manhattan just makes the show feel like a genuine sequel instead of a "just using the name for marketing".

I think the show has been quite clever and honours the approach of the comics. The comics often took us back to the time of the Minutemen, while focusing on the Watchmen of the 1980s. Now we have a new cast of heroes/anti-heroes in Sister Night, Looking Glass and co. contrasted against the original Watchmen. 

[red snow]

22 minutes ago, Paxter said:

I think the approach has been quite clever and honours the approach of the comics. The comics often took us back to the time of the Minutemen, while focusing on the Watchmen of the 1980s. Now we have a new cast of heroes/anti-heroes in Sister Night, Looking Glass and co. contrasted against the original Watchmen. 

That and the minutemen tv show is reminiscent of the stranded sailor comic within a comic. 

[RumHam]

So the latest Peteypedia update seems to have confirmed that Judd's father was head of a chapter of the KKK. Having taken over the position from Senator Keene of the Keene Act (and Bob Benson from Mad Men's dad.)

Quote

I use words like "custody" with sober deliberateness. This gift [the painting Martial Feats of Comanche Horsemanship] is not yours to keep. It is a totem of the responsibility that you inherited last night. Just as this painting was entrusted to me when the responsibility was mine, now, it is entrusted to you. And when the time comes for you to give up the mantle of our order to your replacement, we expect you to give him this painting, and with it. this story. 

https://www.hbo.com/content/dam/hbodata/series/watchmen/peteypedia/03/four-letters-evidence.pdf

I'm still thinking Judd was not an active Klan member, and that Will killed him for the sins of his father basically. 

[Kalbear]

I dont think that's true. At the very least because it doesnt track with what will is saying or how high his friends are up in things. Nor does it track with Judd being part of the conspiracy. 

Theres a reason his wife works for Keene. Theres a reason that a 7k had Angela dead to rights and didnt kill her. Judd not being part of that and making him innocent doesnt fit at all. 

Now he might have been against it eventually - like the comedian was - but that doesnt mean he isn't 7k. It just means he might have been against the conspiracy specifically. But given what we know about that painting now, it seems ludicrous to think that it would be allowed to be hung in the house and him have custody of it. 

An aside - it is categorically brilliant how they're doing the extratextual parts of this show to mimic the original watchmen. I dont know if lindelof will make things satisfying or not, but it's clearly being crafted with a very large amount of care and love. 

[RumHam]

Just now, Kalbear said:

I dont think that's true. At the very least because it doesnt track with what will is saying or how high his friends are up in things. Nor does it track with Judd being part of the conspiracy. 

Theres a reason his wife works for Keene. Theres a reason that a 7k had Angela dead to rights and didnt kill her. Judd not being part of that and making him innocent doesnt fit at all. 

Now he might have been against it eventually - like the comedian was - but that doesnt mean he isn't 7k. It just means he might have been against the conspiracy specifically. But given what we know about that painting now, it seems ludicrous to think that it would be allowed to be hung in the house and him have custody of it. 

An aside - it is categorically brilliant how they're doing the extratextual parts of this show to mimic the original watchmen. I dont know if lindelof will make things satisfying or not, but it's clearly being crafted with a very large amount of care and love. 

You may be right, but we have no indication so far that the Klan still exists in this world. They may have been superseded by the 7K and I think there's a reason she didn't find a 7K mask in that hidden room. 

As for why they left Angela alive I assumed Cal intervened. Nothing else really makes sense cause he was still in the house, and he and Angela would definitely ask what happened if the 7K guy who had her just...left. 

Plus Judd could do a lot more damage to the police force from his position if he wanted. And he really seemed to want to flame thrower those escaping 7k guys in the plane. 

[Kalbear]

54 minutes ago, RumHam said:

As for why they left Angela alive I assumed Cal intervened. Nothing else really makes sense cause he was still in the house, and he and Angela would definitely ask what happened if the 7K guy who had her just...left. 

I got the impression that she wasn't perfectly clear on those memories. We also know Judd officially said that only one guy was found to her, and he never mentioned the second one at all. And it'll end up being Judd who was in that mask. I think her arc is going to be close to Laurie's in the Watchmen arc, where she's got to come to grips with the idea that Judd was both a hero to her and deeply racist, and both are accurate and we'll get that reveal as the big whoa thing. 

54 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Plus Judd could do a lot more damage to the police force from his position if he wanted. And he really seemed to want to flame thrower those escaping 7k guys in the plane. 

I think he's working for Keene, who wants to use 7k's terrorism as a pretext to give police vigilante powers across the US on a wave of authority and control. And having a bunch of masked police being able to do whatever the hell they want to means all those 7k people? They can just go be police, and no one will be able to do a damned thing. Laurie said it this ep - what is the difference between a vigilante and a cop wearing a mask?