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Dany's three treasons?

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(this is literally THE most unoriginal post so sorry about that)

 

ANYWAY, i've been wondering about this for a long time now. so dany will face three treasons - once for blood (Mirri Maz Duur), once for gold(Jorah or Brown Ben Plumm), and once for love(???).

 

who do you think the last one is??? Jon? Darrio?? and how do you think it will happen???

 

Edited by RevaM

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Illyrio, Daemon Blackfyre's heir, for blood, Tyrion and/or Brown Ben for all the gold of Casterly Rock, and Aegon, who is actually Illyrio's son, for love of Arianne.

The George loves betrayal. From Petyr betraying The Ned to the Ides of Marsh. In The House of the Undying Ones, we were told that Daenerys would know three treasons, so these three treasons better be pretty big. My guess is they will happen at once or in rapid succession, Illyrio for blood, Tyrion for gold, and Aegon for love, but whatever they are, they need to be real game changers. 

 

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I think there's also a possibility that Dany could be the one committing some or all of these "treasons" ( the wording is the treasons she will KNOW -  I believe this could mean treasons acted on her OR by her) . I also wonder if treason is necessarily synonymous with just any old betrayal or if it has to be specific to treason against the King/Queen/Country - in which any treason wouldn't occur until after Dany was crowned? I just think George is playing with words here and I am open to various interpretations.

Edited by Lady Char
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21 minutes ago, Lady Char said:

I think there's also a possibility that Dany could be the one committing some or all of these "treasons" ( the wording is the treasons she will KNOW -  I believe this could mean treasons acted on her OR by her) .

I agree.  In the text, we have already been given the example of an archetypal treason for blood...the 'Blood Betrayal', an inverse echo of which we find in Daenerys's case, with the female (i.e. Dany) now being in the position of the Bloodstone Emperor (the usurper); and the male (her brother Viserys/her son Rhaego/her husband 'blood-of-my-blood' Drogo) in the position of the usurped Amethyst Empress (the rightful heir).  In effect, the sacrificed blood of all three of Dany's kin was used 'for' a specific purpose (as in the phrase 'treason for blood'), specifically as payment towards the birth of her three dragons, who are fittingly named after those sacrificed in their creation, namely Viserion, Rhaegal and Drogon.  Given that she's committed treason three times over, usurping her brother, son, and husband, perhaps likewise we can also expect her to commit three treasons for gold and love respectively?

Edited by ravenous reader

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I really like the idea that Dany may be the one committing the treasons. It's a fresh take on the prophecy, and there's a lot of irony to it since Dany spends so much time agonizing over who's going to betray her. Unfortunately, we won't really know for sure until after the series is completed, and even then fans will probably still debate over them.

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On 6/22/2017 at 1:59 PM, crowcrow said:

(this is literally THE most unoriginal post so sorry about that)

 

ANYWAY, i've been wondering about this for a long time now. so dany will face three treasons - once for blood (Mirri Maz Duur), once for gold(Jorah or Brown Ben Plumm), and once for love(???).

 

who do you think the last one is??? Jon? Darrio?? and how do you think it will happen???

 

My take, which is not full formed. This tlist is formed assuming that the treasons are committed against Daenerys.

Treason for blood:

Perhaps Mirri Maz Duur as Mirri betrayed Daenerys trust when she put Drogo in his catatonic state. Mirri presumably did this to avenge her people for what Drogo's horde and other Dothraki did to her region. Her people being defined as co-vilagers or co-ethnics. The Lhazeeren have been plagued by Dothraki incursions for a long time.

Also maybe Tyrion would betray Danerys for his Lannister kin?

Treason for gold:

Perhaps Brown Ben Plumm, Daario or Jorah. Maybe the old masters could bribe one of these characters or just give a better deal?

Treason for love:

Perhaps Jorah. Maybe Jorah would betray Daenerys because of the love he holds for his Hightower wife? This may also tie into the prophecy of "treason for gold" too, as Jorah might betray Dany for gold because of his love for Lynesse.

Tyrion too for the love he holds for his kin, and especially Jaime Lannister.

 

 

Perhaps the treasons are not treasons that will be committed against Daenerys but by Daenerys? That would put another twist entirely on the prophecy. 

 

Or maybe the treasons are committed by various characters because of Danerys, as she being the motivation or vehicle of their desired outcome?

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On 6/22/2017 at 5:45 PM, ravenous reader said:

I agree.  In the text, we have already been given the example of an archetypal treason for blood...the 'Blood Betrayal', an inverse echo of which we find in Daenerys's case, with the female (i.e. Dany) now being in the position of the Bloodstone Emperor (the usurper); and the male (her brother Viserys/her son Rhaego/her husband 'blood-of-my-blood' Drogo) in the position of the usurped Amethyst Empress (the rightful heir).  In effect, the sacrificed blood of all three of Dany's kin was used 'for' a specific purpose (as in the phrase 'treason for blood'), specifically as payment towards the birth of her three dragons, who are fittingly named after those sacrificed in their creation, namely Viserion, Rhaegal and Drogon.  Given that she's committed treason three times over, usurping her brother, son, and husband, perhaps likewise we can also expect her to commit three treasons for gold and love respectively?

Perhaps Daenerys turing on the masters of Astapor could represent the treason for gold? Here Daenerys betrayed the masters during a trade, and gold symbolising value in this case her dragons.

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Once for blood- What does it means, if it was Mirri? Blood magic used by MMD?  Or blood of Lhazarene people?

I don't think that prophecy will speak about past event.

 

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Love will be her tricking Jon into bedding her. Blood will be Euron bedding/impregnating Arianne or otherwise hijacking Drogon. Gold will either be 1) Tyrion turning on her or 2) those responsible for turning Aegon against her and/or getting Rhaegal to Aegon.

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Posted (edited)

I've often wondered if this prophecy can even be trusted. It seems like prophecies to Dany seem designed to make her paranoid and mistrustful of people who would probably otherwise intend to help her ("the lion and the griffin... trust none of them").

But assuming it's a valid prophecy (both genuinely a prophecy, and well-intentioned)... I'm too sleepy to think about the gold or blood, though to me the obvious possibilities are Mirri for blood and Daario or Hizdahr zo Loraq for gold (Hizdahr, in particular, struck me as treacherous the entire time, in a very specific way that Dany just didn't see). It could also be FAegon for blood... or really, anybody with blood ties anywhere.

I doubt it will be Tyrion for blood... while his feelings about Jaime are conflicted, I think he would be honest with Dany about that (my hope is that his role will primarily be to teach her how to... be smarter when it comes to the game, and not just believe people who say they want to please her for its own sake, but rather think in terms of what they want). And his feelings about Cersei are not mixed at all, nor are they at all in conflict with Dany's interests.

I also doubt it would be Tyrion for gold, just because... that's not where his priorities lie anymore. Gold is actually a really stupid thing for Tyrion to betray Dany for at this point... he needs her. He's a dwarf with half a nose and a sizable bounty on his head. Hiding is not an option for him, so he needs protection from somebody more powerful than Cersei. I know people say that Tyrion isn't as smart as he thinks he is (I'm not convinced on this point), but he is actually really, really smart except when he's nursing a death wish, feeling hurt and betrayed, or thinking with his cock.

Which kind of brings me to the "for love" betrayal, which I think is the most interesting one. It sounded to me like somebody is going to betray Dany, out of love... for Dany. Perhaps jealousy. Or perhaps she'll order against an action, for her own reasons, but someone will take it upon themselves to do it anyway, feeling like it's the best thing for her. In either case, it could be Jorah... or if some of the hints I've heard through the grapevine are true, perhaps this one will be Tyrion. Jorah's very possessive and Tyrion's been known to both fall in love with anybody who shows him any kindness, and to lash out when hurt... and also, both of them are kind of know-it-alls.

Or it could be one of her "children" (of either the dragon or human kind), when one of them becomes disenchanted with her. Grey Worm or Missandei... or Rhaegon or Viserion, when she comes back and they're really unhappy with her?

Edited by Katerine459

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Posted (edited)
On 5/30/2018 at 11:14 PM, Katerine459 said:

I've often wondered if this prophecy can even be trusted. It seems like prophecies to Dany seem designed to make her paranoid and mistrustful of people who would probably otherwise intend to help her ("the lion and the griffin... trust none of them").

They really don't seem to be helpful. For all we know it is meant to destabilize her support base, either to have her become dependent on Quaithe or whoever she's working with, or because they are backing someone else and want to cause strife in her camp. If it's for her benefit why be so cryptic?

Quote

But assuming it's a valid prophecy (both genuinely a prophecy, and well-intentioned)... I'm too sleepy to think about the gold or blood, though to me the obvious possibilities are Mirri for blood and Daario or Hizdahr zo Loraq for gold (Hizdahr, in particular, struck me as treacherous the entire time, in a very specific way that Dany just didn't see). It could also be FAegon for blood... or really, anybody with blood ties anywhere.

I doubt it will be Tyrion for blood... while his feelings about Jaime are conflicted, I think he would be honest with Dany about that (my hope is that his role will primarily be to teach her how to... be smarter when it comes to the game, and not just believe people who say they want to please her for its own sake, but rather think in terms of what they want). And his feelings about Cersei are not mixed at all, nor are they at all in conflict with Dany's interests.

I also doubt it would be Tyrion for gold, just because... that's not where his priorities lie anymore. Gold is actually a really stupid thing for Tyrion to betray Dany for at this point... he needs her. He's a dwarf with half a nose and a sizable bounty on his head. Hiding is not an option for him, so he needs protection from somebody more powerful than Cersei. I know people say that Tyrion isn't as smart as he thinks he is (I'm not convinced on this point), but he is actually really, really smart except when he's nursing a death wish, feeling hurt and betrayed, or thinking with his cock.

Which kind of brings me to the "for love" betrayal, which I think is the most interesting one. It sounded to me like somebody is going to betray Dany, out of love... for Dany. Perhaps jealousy. Or perhaps she'll order against an action, for her own reasons, but someone will take it upon themselves to do it anyway, feeling like it's the best thing for her. In either case, it could be Jorah... or if some of the hints I've heard through the grapevine are true, perhaps this one will be Tyrion. Jorah's very possessive and Tyrion's been known to both fall in love with anybody who shows him any kindness, and to lash out when hurt... and also, both of them are kind of know-it-alls.

Or it could be one of her "children" (of either the dragon or human kind), when one of them becomes disenchanted with her. Grey Worm or Missandei... or Rhaegon or Viserion, when she comes back and they're really unhappy with her?

Quote

Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.

Quote

...three heads has the dragon . . . the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air. . . . mother of dragons . . . child of storm . . . The whispers became a swirling song. . . . three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . . Her own heartT was beating in unison to the one that floated before her, blue and corrupt . . . three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . . The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath. . . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love...

Edit: just realized what was in my brain didn't all make it into the post. One of those days. Bolded stuff will be adding in what I somehow thought but didn't type. Sorry!

I used to think the perfumed senschal was Varys, but now I think Barry is right and that it's Reznak. We are meant to overlook him as to obvious but... it's a trick.

We hear don't trust the suns son. Quentyn is who most people assume, but I think it's Darrio. The son on the Second Sons. And he returns to her with Quentyn and the other people sent to betray Dany (He says to trust these men, and until she is told of their betrayal she trusts his judgement, note that it says not to trust them and link it with betrayals, not that they actively seek to betray her). Quentyn says they (meaning his family) want fire and blood to his companions, and he believes he has the blood of the dragon, he is doing everything for his family, so blood loyalty. Then he betrays her by trying to steal/releasing the two dragons that were locked up, and he dies. His death could result in her not having the support of Dorne so could he be the betrayal for blood? And since the dragons didn't respond to him, and he is being controlled by his father he is the mummers dragon. (I feel it can't be fAegon, because we are told black or red a dragon IS still a dragon, thus he is a real dragon, just the wrong color.)

If the warnings are real it has to be something big, and blood is the only one that fits here.

And this leads to the next one.

Beware the Lion and Griffin. I think this is referring to the fight between Griff/young Griff and the Lannisters, and also the fact that they left her and went to Westerose without her on the advice of a Lannister. Once they had the Golden company, they were supposed to help her but gave up. Dorne is sending people to meet them. Thinking fAegon could be real. So if Dorne abandons her because of the blood, and throws in with the golden company, because they are there and apposing the Lannisters, thus in a better position to give them the revenge they want this could be seen as them betraying her to support the golden company to help overthrow the golden lions. The Dornish could also warn the Griffins against trusting her because of what happened with the dragons. Thus the betrayal for gold.

The last most people think is Victarion and Moqorro but since the others don't seem best explained by what is commonly believed based on who was coming to see her why should this one be so simple? 

I think fAegon is darkflame, 'cause he's a blackfyre and is in the Stormlands, not far away from where some of Eurons men are. We are told Jon Con wants to see him on the throne before he dies for his love of Rheagar. So he could make allies with Euron, thus betraying Rheagars sister for a fake because he's blinded by his love of Rheagar, to try and get fAegon on the throne. It also follows the pattern of one betrayal leading naturally to the next, thus linking them all. Eurons love of torturing his Brother could also contribute to this betrayal, or he betrays Victarion because Victarion is trying to steal the woman he 'loves'. Or the woman who he sees as being able to get him the power he loves. Either way. I believe we will see an alliance between these two groups, and that motivations of those involved will be the betrayal for love.

And as these are all in reverse order, the last one if we think of the pale mare in terms of a female in the race for the right to rule, then that could mean Cersei since all the woman seeking power, be it control of family lands and titles or queenship, rightful or not are shown on pale mares: Dany rode a pale mare when seeking rulership/queenship of all the places she's taken so far, Alys Karstark was on a pale mare when she arrived at the wall seeking rule of Karhold, Val was on a pale mare when rounding up the Free folk to save them, thus securing her position as their queen. So the symbolism does work. I think the pale mare, the disease was a red herring.

Then the others is the Others.

Edited by Azarial
adding a new thought

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