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OberynBlackfyre

Will Euron and Cersei get married to become the most evil couple of Westeros?

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Now at the end of Dance of Dragons, Cersei is at a place that could be seen as the weakest she has been, that is until we see what happens in the epilogue.  

But what we do know is:

-Jaime has seemingly abandoned her. Him not coming to her aid is definitely I think a sign that Jaime has now left Cersei completely, especially since she could possibly die.  He seems to have very little regard for her desperate note, and even burns it.  

-It has been foreshadowed that Cersei will marry again.  For all her protesting against it and saying she doesn't need a man, she definitely relies on them to be used by her sexuality.  Also her idea of what "strength" is, has been shown to be deeply and completely flawed.  

- GRRM has hinted that there will definitely be more weddings. 

-The Tyrells do not seem long for this world, especially if Cersei is at the helm of ruling House Lannister.  With Jaime gone/Kingsguard, and Kevan dead-she is defacto ruler of the 7 Kingdoms and Casterly Rock.

And now with Euron, I firmly believe that he knows Victarion will double cross him, and his endgame was never really to marry Daenerys so much as it was to get Daenerys to come to Westeros, so he can either kill or control the dragons.  And it also seems that Euron simply wanted Victarion gone, so the quest could have been a ruse all along.  

However Euron being with a blonde, beautiful woman almost seems like he is making a prophecy, which is also compounded by:

in the sample chapter for Damphair from the Winds of Winter, he sees Euron sitting on the throne with a woman by his side, a shadow that has pale flames coming from her hands.  Cersei has had the "pale flames" adjective said about her I believe a couple of times in the series

 

If House Tyrell does end up waging war against House Lannister then that would definitely not only leave Cersei desperate, but make an alliance with Euron be in her best interest.  Not only does that protect the fleet from hitting the West, it means that she could actually BENEFIT from the Ironborn raiding Oldtown, the Arbor, etc.  As well as creating a buffer between her and Dorne.

Also---- Euron COULD be thinking of this already.  Notice that he raids all along the Western shore....EXCEPT for anywhere in or near the West, when Lannisport is KNOWN to be a rich city.

 

 

 

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They would definitely be interesting to read about. I have a feeling that Euron would play coy with her, letting Cersei think that she was in charge when in fact he's the one calling all the shots. I don't know if a marriage between the two will definitely happen, but it is a possibility. 

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28 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

They would definitely be interesting to read about. I have a feeling that Euron would play coy with her, letting Cersei think that she was in charge when in fact he's the one calling all the shots. I don't know if a marriage between the two will definitely happen, but it is a possibility. 

I agree.  The funny thing about Cersei is that I think she would believe that she could control him the way she "controls" everyone else.  And he could totally play into that, as he seems like a person who is generous and open handed, but hs gifts are always poison (as is heavily said/foreshadowed in Victarion's chapter)

 

Plus I think after Cersei loses her kids in the books, she's just not going to care at all anymore.  She my even see Euron's evil as "strength"

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That is most likely going to happen, yes. Although it is quite clear Euron actually wants Daenerys, but when the news about the Hizdahr marriage and her alleged death arrive in Westeros both he and Aegon will have to look for other brides.

And Cersei is completely at the Tyrells mercy right now. She is surrounded by enemies and can't hope to regain power without a strong force of her own. Even if she killed all her enemies - Mace, Tarly, Margaery, the High Septon and his Warrior's Sons and Poor Fellows, the tens of thousands of Tyrell men in the city, etc. - the Kingslanders and Crownlanders would still not follow her. They all saw running naked through the streets. Such a shame and disgrace cannot be washed away with water. Only with blood. But Cersei doesn't have the strength to do that right now.

If she goes and returns at Euron's side with a powerful force she can make her enemies pay. And that she will.

And yeah, the fact that George had Euron pick the Reach as the target instead of the essentially defenseless and unprepared West is a very strong sign that the plan is to eventually establish an alliance between Cersei and Euron. That might also be the reason why the Ironborn never attacked the Lannisters throughout the entire War of the Five Kings.

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It doesn't seem to me as if Euron much worries about having only one wife at a time. He'd be glad to pick up the Iron Throne and all it commands - er, pick up "Queen Cersei" - at the minimal cost of using his smiling eye for a few days in order to marry into power. Then it would be all over for Cersei.

This would fit in well with George RR's predilection for making even the least sympathetic characters become more human to the reader by subjecting them to horrific ordeals. Take Theon Greyjoy. Cersei's walk of shame really wasn't enough to create a lot of sympathy for someone as selfishly evil and stupid as her, but marriage and abuse to Euron? Yes.

Euron will easily be able to "court" Daenerys when the time comes. There won't be enough of Cersei left to make an objection.

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Cersei and Euron are likely to going to equals in the whole thing. She is still the richest person in the Seven Kingdoms, the Lady of Casterly Rock, and if she marries him he'll get an army he desperately needs. Sure, Euron is a monster, but Qyburn is, too, and Cersei herself is most likely not going to far behind either of them by the time this comes to pass.

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2 hours ago, OberynBlackfyre said:

-It has been foreshadowed that Cersei will marry again.  

Really?

In any case no, Euron will go to Dany.

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Ah geez, these 2?   Who would you feel more sorry for?   Gads.   I actually felt a little sorry for Cersei during her walk, but that was remedied nearly immediately when she asks Kevan for Taena.   Cersei is recalcitrant.   Euron is awful.   The Westerlands are always the ultimate goal for the Iron Born in full blown war or reaving or whatever it is they actually do.  No one likes Cersei and no one likes the Iron Born.   But these 2 are psychos in the worst way, no regard for anything beyond themselves.   Could Mace take Tommen from her if she married a pirate?  It's plain what Cersei has to offer any man.   But this guy?   What can Euron offer?   Everyone hates him.  His own people hate him.   He's just raided the Reach--how can that be a smart alliance for Cersei given her son is married to the daughter of the warden of the south?   Can Cersei really regain power in King's Landing?   Wouldn't it be smarter for her to head back to the Rock and establish her power there where they have to protect her?   What would Dorne think of this and that only matters because they still have Myrcella...I can't think of a single good reason for either of these 2 to ally. 

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The game has only just begun.  We've seen it played between houses and between kingdoms.  But the game will also be played within each family.  There will be a rift among the Ironborn.  It will be Vic, Theon, and Asha against Euron and his allies.  One of Euron's allies could be Cersei and the best way to seal an alliance is with a marriage.  Euron's cockiness will make him underestimate Cersei. 

 

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After having carefully read all of your various insightful and interesting comments, here are my two pennies on the matter: I have definitely thought about it, as they kind of stick out as the two evil, hated Great House leaders who won't want to bend the knee when Daenerys sweeps in with half of Essos at her back. They are both without allies and surrounded by enemies, so it seems like their best hope - okay, maybe just Cersei's best hope because Euron seems to be doing really good so far - is marrying and working together. I agree that it would be kind of cliché but honestly 90 % of punching holes in theories on this site is saying that something is too cliché for Martin. And besides, Martin inverts fantasy tropes, he doesn't necessarily steer clear from them, so he could still have their marriage be interesting and not a cliché. Even if it becomes a cliché, however, I feel like I might want to see it happening. It's not the worst thing he could write anyway.

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On 6/23/2017 at 2:22 PM, Lord Varys said:

That is most likely going to happen, yes. Although it is quite clear Euron actually wants Daenerys, but when the news about the Hizdahr marriage and her alleged death arrive in Westeros both he and Aegon will have to look for other brides.

And Cersei is completely at the Tyrells mercy right now. She is surrounded by enemies and can't hope to regain power without a strong force of her own. Even if she killed all her enemies - Mace, Tarly, Margaery, the High Septon and his Warrior's Sons and Poor Fellows, the tens of thousands of Tyrell men in the city, etc. - the Kingslanders and Crownlanders would still not follow her. They all saw running naked through the streets. Such a shame and disgrace cannot be washed away with water. Only with blood. But Cersei doesn't have the strength to do that right now.

If she goes and returns at Euron's side with a powerful force she can make her enemies pay. And that she will.

And yeah, the fact that George had Euron pick the Reach as the target instead of the essentially defenseless and unprepared West is a very strong sign that the plan is to eventually establish an alliance between Cersei and Euron. That might also be the reason why the Ironborn never attacked the Lannisters throughout the entire War of the Five Kings.

How many Tyrell men are still in the city, though, as of Arianne II, Winds? Cersei wouldna need to leave the city and return with Euron if Euron sweeps into King's Landing while the better part of Mace's army is off fighting in the Reach and the Stormlands. 

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If Jamie abandons Cersei then he will take his rightful role as Warden of the West. That means that she will lose the Westerlands. Also her power rely solely on her being queen regent. If she marries somebody then that will be stripped away from her. She won’t accept a downgrade to Lady of the Iron Islands and under such circumstances Euron won’t need her either.


Euron and Cersei are narcissists. They think that they are the best in the line and can only share their bed with equals. So who are the best according to their books? Well, they were brought up thinking that the dragon lords are the top of the brand. Hence why Euron wishes to marry Danny and why Cersei would have considered Rhaegar as her partner in exchange of Jamie.


In my opinion, Tommen will sink deeper inside Tyrell pockets, which is of course bad news for Cersei. With Kevan dead, Jamie will have no choice but to take the Warden of the West role herself, which means that Cersei will be left in KL, alone and as a declining power. That’s something she won’t like.I fancy her leaving KL and propose Aegon a way how to quickly conquer KL in exchange of a marriage between the two. She was meant to marry Aegon’s father. She might as well marry the son and start a new family between the two most powerful families in Westeros.

Aegon on the other hand simply lack the troops to conquer KL without any help and will not be able to convince Doran to join his quest with just a 10k army. The only way he can conquer KL is through help from the inside. With Cersei as his wife and Margaery as his hostage Aegon can secure the IT despite lacking the necessary troops to beat either lion or rose (let alone both) on the battlefield. 

Edited by devilish

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7 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

How many Tyrell men are still in the city, though, as of Arianne II, Winds? Cersei wouldna need to leave the city and return with Euron if Euron sweeps into King's Landing while the better part of Mace's army is off fighting in the Reach and the Stormlands. 

Garlan took half of the Tyrell men back to Highgarden when he left with Olenna, Alerie, and the others after Tommen's wedding. Depending on how many men from the Reach where in Renly's original army the other half Mace and Tarly control would be about 30,000-40,000 men. Renly allegedly had 80,000 men Bitterbridge, but we don't know how many Stormlanders were with him. If it was 20,000 Stormlanders and 60,000 Reach men then 30,000 men would be the half of that. But it could have been less Stormlanders and more Reach men, say 65,000 to 15,000, or even 70,000 to 10,000 men. And we also know Mace had another 10,000 men with him at Highgarden, men who most likely accompanied him to KL and fought at the Blackwater and later on at Duskendale. Then it would be in total 70,000 or 80,000 Reach men at KL immediately after the Blackwater. Half of that might then be 40,000.

Now, some men would have died in the two battles, others might have deserted, and then there are those Florent foot who were put down by Tarly.

But I don't think it makes sense timeline-wise that Euron will take KL while Mace is off fighting Aegon. He has no intention to leave the city to fight the Ironborn. That is the job of his sons. And the 30,000-40,000 men Garlan took back with him to Highgarden should be more than enough in addition to the other men they are raising right now.

Euron first has to crush the Redwyne fleet and that might happen around the same time the Tyrells are marching against Aegon at Storm's End. Euron will only make new plans when he realizes that the Dany-and-dragons-plan is not going to work the way he thought it would. Meaning that she is either dead, not coming yet, etc. Aegon will become a massive problem for him because he is not just stealing Dany's thunder but also his. He wanted to take the Iron Throne as the king consort of a Targaryen queen. But he can't marry Aegon.

To deal with Aegon he'll need allies in Westeros. And that's where Cersei will come in. He needs a land-based power to challenge or attack Aegon. Then they could, perhaps, defeat them all. Once the Redwyne fleet is gone Aegon cannot carry the war to Euron. He doesn't have enough ships. He can do nothing to stop him while Euron lacks the allies to actually take and keep the Iron Throne.

He could set himself up as a pirate-king on the Arbor and carve himself a kingdom consisting of the southern coasts of the Reach but the chances that he can get the lords and knights there to march in his name against Highgarden and KL are about zero. And even if he did, they would be too few help him hold it. He needs more allies. And that's where Cersei will come in. The gold of Casterly Rock as well as the strength of the Lords of the West will help with that.

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10 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Garlan took half of the Tyrell men back to Highgarden when he left with Olenna, Alerie, and the others after Tommen's wedding. Depending on how many men from the Reach where in Renly's original army the other half Mace and Tarly control would be about 30,000-40,000 men. Renly allegedly had 80,000 men Bitterbridge, but we don't know how many Stormlanders were with him. If it was 20,000 Stormlanders and 60,000 Reach men then 30,000 men would be the half of that. But it could have been less Stormlanders and more Reach men, say 65,000 to 15,000, or even 70,000 to 10,000 men. And we also know Mace had another 10,000 men with him at Highgarden, men who most likely accompanied him to KL and fought at the Blackwater and later on at Duskendale. Then it would be in total 70,000 or 80,000 Reach men at KL immediately after the Blackwater. Half of that might then be 40,000.

Now, some men would have died in the two battles, others might have deserted, and then there are those Florent foot who were put down by Tarly.

But I don't think it makes sense timeline-wise that Euron will take KL while Mace is off fighting Aegon. He has no intention to leave the city to fight the Ironborn. That is the job of his sons. And the 30,000-40,000 men Garlan took back with him to Highgarden should be more than enough in addition to the other men they are raising right now.

Euron first has to crush the Redwyne fleet and that might happen around the same time the Tyrells are marching against Aegon at Storm's End. Euron will only make new plans when he realizes that the Dany-and-dragons-plan is not going to work the way he thought it would. Meaning that she is either dead, not coming yet, etc. Aegon will become a massive problem for him because he is not just stealing Dany's thunder but also his. He wanted to take the Iron Throne as the king consort of a Targaryen queen. But he can't marry Aegon.

To deal with Aegon he'll need allies in Westeros. And that's where Cersei will come in. He needs a land-based power to challenge or attack Aegon. Then they could, perhaps, defeat them all. Once the Redwyne fleet is gone Aegon cannot carry the war to Euron. He doesn't have enough ships. He can do nothing to stop him while Euron lacks the allies to actually take and keep the Iron Throne.

He could set himself up as a pirate-king on the Arbor and carve himself a kingdom consisting of the southern coasts of the Reach but the chances that he can get the lords and knights there to march in his name against Highgarden and KL are about zero. And even if he did, they would be too few help him hold it. He needs more allies. And that's where Cersei will come in. The gold of Casterly Rock as well as the strength of the Lords of the West will help with that.

But aren't a bunch of Tyrell men

Spoiler

marching on Storm’s End? How many would he take? How many would he leave behind? 

 

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3 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

But aren't a bunch of Tyrell men

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marching on Storm’s End? How many would he take? How many would he leave behind? 

 

My usually guesses are that Mace will send at least half of the men he has in KL right now against Aegon. He and Tarly both seem to underestimate the Golden Company but they should know that they have about 10,000 men if all their strength is marshaled, so I assume they would think 20,000 men should be enough to do the trick. The quick fall of Storm's End is going to cause them to be somewhat cautious. That leaves 10,000, 15,000, or even 20,000 men to keep the peace in KL, more than enough to keep Cersei (if she is still there) and the Faith Militant in line.

If George had Mace march with all the 30,000-40,000 men he has against Aegon it would be very difficult for him to allow Aegon to win a decisive victory. Sure, they have the elephants, very good archers, and about 10,000 professional soldiers but being outnumbered 3-4:1 aren't exactly good odds. It would be a tough call even if one of the Dornish armies joined Aegon in time since those would likely only bring another 10,000 men (the army in the Boneway - the army in Prince's Pass is most likely too far away to get there in time) but we don't know whether the timeline is going to allow a Dornish army to get there in time. If they did it would be about 20,000 men of Aegon's against 20,000-40,000 Tyrell men (depending on how many men Mace is going to send in the end).

Even if Aegon won such a battle it would most likely involve many casualties on his side. But he has to win a grand victory to look good. Bloodying himself and others unduly is not going to help his campaign all that much. If George wants him to rise very high very quickly he has to have even more success on the battlefield than Robb.

In addition, if the Tyrell men were to outnumber Aegon's forced 3-4:1 the willingness on the side of the Reach lords and knights in that army to declare for him will be about zero. They have the upper hand and can be confident to win this battle and win further glory. That should count much more than the pitiful tale of an exile lord.

Mace also is quite aware what happened last time when he took most of his men out of the capital - his beloved daughter was arrested by zealots and abandoned by the Iron Throne. He would be a fool to allow that to happen again. I think he would at least leave 10,000 Tyrell men in the city to defend it against any threats be they from the inside or the outside.

Now, after Aegon wins an astonishing and decisive victory over the Tyrell army those men might follow the example of the survivors of that army and eventually hand KL over to Aegon upon his arrival.

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