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Sigella

Disliking Tyrion Lannister

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Yeah I'm up for a Tyrion-roast.

Starting with the obvious, I hate him looking like some hideous monster from a Grim fairytale. Sorry. Dressed-up-hideous-monster-from-a-Grim-fairytale.

Spoiler

Prefer the show Tyrion who at least has some redeeming features, and doesn't dress quite as flamboyant..

Beyond aesthetic regrets, why oh why does he have to say such awful things to people like always? I fully expect his first words to Dany will be "where do whores go?". Like, I say offensive stuff too but I feel bad about it while he just doesn't. He only regrets when it gets him in trouble. He never regrets making people feel uncomfortable or hurting their feelings or such.

 

Really wish he had a healthier view on women. Really wish he'd be morally above sleeping with slaves (Illyrios manse). 

 

Really hope Sweetrobin and the moon-door will have their way with him.

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@Sigella you are brave starting this post lol.  I find Tyrion amusing in ACOK and ASOS and mostly annoying in the other books.  I would not like him as a person in real life, and consider him as morally reprehensible as Cersei.  I can empathize with how he is a product of his environment and may have turned out differently in a loving family, and I hope he finds some form of redemption like Jaime.

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Heretic! :-)...just kidding

Book Tyrion is, in my opinion, way more interesting than the show version, yes, he is more devious and way! more ugly. (Peter Dinklage's handsomeness really did nothing good to the character if you ask me, but it is a TV show and........i dont really know how to end this........would have prefered a more book like Tyrion myself ^^  ....(but i love the Performance of him in the TV-Show.....no Question, he deserves every bit of praise!)

But think about what he's been through.....he has every right to be bitter......

I'm just thinking about his time in the Vale (book...Mord...), he really did nothing wrong besides belonging to the wrong (right?) family and he got punished pretty hard for crimes he did not commit. Well yeah....Tyrion.....he pretty much took the hard road out but what else would someone expect with his great mouth :-) . And for that he made an impressive "escape"!!

edit:

Take him as a Product of his Time and Setting. TBH considering what he has been through i really find him pretty decent......yes he is a mysogynist there is no way of cleaning him of this one.....but....at least he likes women and does not hurt and torture them....like other characters in the books.

 

Edited by Dela81
wrote to long :)

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1 hour ago, Sigella said:

Yeah I'm up for a Tyrion-roast.

Starting with the obvious, I hate him looking like some hideous monster from a Grim fairytale. Sorry. Dressed-up-hideous-monster-from-a-Grim-fairytale.

  Reveal hidden contents

Prefer the show Tyrion who at least has some redeeming features, and doesn't dress quite as flamboyant..

Beyond aesthetic regrets, why oh why does he have to say such awful things to people like always? I fully expect his first words to Dany will be "where do whores go?". Like, I say offensive stuff too but I feel bad about it while he just doesn't. He only regrets when it gets him in trouble. He never regrets making people feel uncomfortable or hurting their feelings or such.

 

Really wish he had a healthier view on women. Really wish he'd be morally above sleeping with slaves (Illyrios manse). 

 

Really hope Sweetrobin and the moon-door will have their way with him.

Making other people feel uncomfortable is pretty small potatoes. I find his own comfort with cold-blooded murder far more problematic.

I think there is hope that he can learn to be a better person, however. He is clever, after all. He constantly reminds everyone around him of it.

Edited by hiemal

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Need to add some "little" thing as i read the cold blooded murder line. It's true, i'm thinking of the murder of that singer at the least. Was it the blue bard....don't remember but anyway.....that was way out of line he had all means to get that guy out of the way by other means.....

Maybe im also guilty of seeing him as too good but anyway.....just like the guy :)

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10 minutes ago, Dela81 said:

Heretic! :-)...just kidding

Book Tyrion is, in my opinion, way more interesting than the show version, yes, he is more devious and way! more ugly. (Peter Dinklage's handsomeness really did nothing good to the character if you ask me, but it is a TV show and........i dont really know how to end this........would have prefered a more book like Tyrion myself ^^  ....(but i love the Performance of him in the TV-Show.....no Question, he deserves every bit of praise!)

But think about what he's been through.....he has every right to be bitter......

I'm just thinking about his time in the Vale (book...Mord...), he really did nothing wrong besides belonging to the wrong (right?) family and he got punished pretty hard for crimes he did not commit. Well yeah....Tyrion.....he pretty much took the hard road out but what else would someone expect with his great mouth :-) . And for that he made an impressive "escape"!!

edit:

Take him as a Product of his Time and Setting. TBH considering what he has been through i really find him pretty decent......yes he is a mysogynist there is no way of cleaning him of this one.....but....at least he likes women and does not hurt and torture them....like other characters in the books.

 

The thing that stands out to me there is how gleefully he told Cat (in front of her escort) about Littlefingers boastings regarding her virginity, in unnecessary detail. :wacko:

1 minute ago, hiemal said:

Making other people feel uncomfortable is pretty small potatoes. I find his own comfort with cold-blooded murder far more problematic.

I think there is hope that he can learn to be a better person, however. He is clever, after all. He constantly reminds everyone around him of it.

Thing is, he hasn't become any better, rather the opposite. His treatment of women has totally unravelled since he murdred Shae. 

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2 minutes ago, Dela81 said:

Need to add some "little" thing as i read the cold blooded murder line. It's true, i'm thinking of the murder of that singer at the least. Was it the blue bard....don't remember but anyway.....that was way out of line he had all means to get that guy out of the way by other means.....

Maybe im also guilty of seeing him as too good but anyway.....just like the guy :)

Simon Silver-Tounge :P

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Tyrion was on of my fav characters when I was reading the books (that list also includes Tywin and Jaime), but I sort of see what you mean. More so, after encountering the fandom, a big portion of which worship Tyrion and won't hear any criticism toward him.

His morality is very grey, but at least initially he tries to be good (something no one else in his immediate family is concerned with), and as muchy as a privileged little Lannister shit he is as a noble, he also gets a lot of undeserved mistreatment from the world for being disfigured, so I guess I sort of can excuse him for taking an advantage from what good he has in life.

1 hour ago, Sigella said:

Beyond aesthetic regrets, why oh why does he have to say such awful things to people like always? I fully expect his first words to Dany will be "where do whores go?".

Hahahaha.

Yeah, I guess he sometimes comes off as more obnoxious than the author intended. And that habit of presenting his sexual harassment whenever he wants to insult a woman, as 'wit'... :rolleyes: I guess it's something of a 90's trend, making a character come off as 'edgy' and 'politically incorrect' with making them behave as pigs. Not to mention, that for someone who looks down on his siblings for incest, Tyrion always have an awfully handy of sexual comments directed at his own sister. So even given who Cersei is, Tyrion comes off as a huge creep.

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12 minutes ago, hiemal said:

I find his own comfort with cold-blooded murder far more problematic.

Yeah, this is my 'Tyrion is definitely not a hero' to-go argument.

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2 minutes ago, Sigella said:

Thing is, he hasn't become any better, rather the opposite. His treatment of women has totally unravelled since he murdred Shae. 

I think that Penny is his hope for redemption in that regard. If he can learn to see beyond the enormity of his own shadow...

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Dont want to defend him too much. (Maybe i already did ^^) But i would answer that he had more in mind than just shaming "proud" Lady Catelyn. :)

 

Edit:

Sexual Comments regarding his Sister are born out of hate for her.....she treats him like shit since birth

Edited by Dela81

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20 minutes ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

 I find Tyrion amusing in ACOK and ASOS and mostly annoying in the other books.

Good observation! However, note that Tyrion's arc has him at the top of his game in the first two books, his high point being just before the Battle of the Blackwater. There he is, Hand of the King, keeping Joffrey under control, doing what he can to feed the smallfolk of King's Landing, setting up a defense, dispensing justice. This was as good as it gets. Then he shames the Hound in front of his own men, rides into battle, and wakes maimed, even uglier, his powers all stripped from him, and having been kept unconscious by his sister in the hopes he'd eventually just fade away.

So Tyrion crawls into a flagon and stays there as long as possible. It severely impacts his character. His remarks are less astute but more cutting. He doesn't plan as well. Things get worse. He's forcibly married to a child who hates him. He's framed for regicide. His dear big brother confesses that Tyrion's one great love was not, in fact, a hired whore but the real thing. He commits patricide. Then he's shipped overseas and becomes a valued gift that nobody really wants to transport, kidnapped, beaten, enslaved, turned into a performing dwarf, and by the end of Dances with Dragons, is starting to regain some autonomy again. He still hasn't gotten to the Dragon Queen yet, however, and is still haunted by his memories of Tysha and just "where DO whores go, anyway?" (My guess is Braavos.)

Tyrion has actually managed pretty well under stress, but it's made him more acerbic, less amusing. He'll probably never be his old carefree self.

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In short, you wish he was the Benevolent Cripple character who takes insults with a smile and turns the other cheek (and does all these things sincerely).

Nah, I don't think I'd care to read anything about such a character.

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5 minutes ago, Dela81 said:

Edit:

Sexual Comments regarding his Sister are born out of hate for her.....she treats him like shit since birth

I know.

But even if his intent of putting down a female is justified, the fact that he instantly resorts to sexual harassment, makes him a huge creep. Doubly so if he's related to her.

Not to mention that he has a record of that even if Cersei isn't present to know it - for example in his conversation with Oberyn or the incident of masturbating into her stew.

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Tyrion is a douche, albeit a very entertaining one and with some obvious background that excuses a lot of what he does and says. The show has done a great job of smoothing out his flaws and just making him a snark machine with cool quips, but Book!Tyrion is pretty prickly, and he becomes intolerable once he gets to Essos.

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Not to mention that he has a record of that even if Cersei isn't present to know it - for example in his conversation with Oberyn or the incident of masturbating into her stew.

 

Well that is not really known.... i dont doubt it taking his personality into account but he just told it in a tense situation.

Could be true....could be a lie...who knows....but....cersei...who wouldnt :)

Edited by Dela81

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10 minutes ago, Sigella said:

The thing that stands out to me there is how gleefully he told Cat (in front of her escort) about Littlefingers boastings regarding her virginity, in unnecessary detail.

I don't think he was "gleeful"; I think he was truly trying to let her know something about the character of her former little friend from Riverrun. Baelish was, as far as Catelyn knew, genuinely trying to help her and Ned, and they both trusted him (Ned somewhat less, as he could see the slimyness). By telling her this little tale, she should have gone on notice about anything LIttlefinger might have said or done. Baelish likes to go on about how much he's always "loved" Cat - but what kind of man would humiliate a woman (higher born at that, and much more than himself) by strutting around telling anyone who would listen how he popped her cherry, right under noble Lord Eddard's nose?

Particularly since it wasn't even true.

Tyrion (getting back to the subject) is nowhere in the same league as Littlefinger. We can also hope Tyrion is smarter and a better cyvasse player.

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Just now, Tianzi said:

I know.

But even if his intent of putting down a female is justified, the fact that he instantly resorts to sexual harassment, makes him a huge creep. Doubly so if he's related to her.

Not to mention that he has a record of that even if Cersei isn't present to know it - for example in his conversation with Oberyn or the incident of masturbating into her stew.

Wow, forgot about the stew thing... :stillsick::ack:

He is no true knight :D

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2 minutes ago, zandru said:

I don't think he was "gleeful"; I think he was truly trying to let her know something about the character of her former little friend from Riverrun. Baelish was, as far as Catelyn knew, genuinely trying to help her and Ned, and they both trusted him (Ned somewhat less, as he could see the slimyness). By telling her this little tale, she should have gone on notice about anything LIttlefinger might have said or done. Baelish likes to go on about how much he's always "loved" Cat - but what kind of man would humiliate a woman (higher born at that, and much more than himself) by strutting around telling anyone who would listen how he popped her cherry, right under noble Lord Eddard's nose?

Particularly since it wasn't even true.

Tyrion (getting back to the subject) is nowhere in the same league as Littlefinger. We can also hope Tyrion is smarter and a better cyvasse player.

She might have done that if he hadn't thrown it in her face. Its kind of ironic - him giving her a valuable piece of information but doing it in such a repelling fashion it can't be taken seriously. The way he said it it sounded like a lie.

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