jon's possiblities

[Darth Sidious]

On 6/28/2017 at 5:23 AM, The Transporter said:

He can serve Robb.  I don't think Jon is particularly smart so he won't be good at administration.  He can do alright to replace Ser Rodrik. 

Jon is too dumb to go to the citadel but he can do the same job that Jorry had.  Bodyguard for Robb.

[Yet Another ASOIAF Fan]

6 hours ago, Agent Orange said:

Jon is too dumb to go to the citadel but he can do the same job that Jorry had.  Bodyguard for Robb.

While I agree that Jon shows no interest in joining the citadel, is there any legitimate evidence that Jon is "dumb"?  All that comes to my mind is his lack of interest in a possible Citadel timeline conspiracy.  Actions like buying a glass greenhouse rather then food directly is foolish if the Others attack is within a year or two, however if the Others delay their attack too long even southern storehouses of food might be too low for sale.

Also people keep talking about knighthood, while forgetting that Jon has no interest in the new gods.  My best guess would either be to replace Jory, or help Ned repopulate the Gift.

ASOS Jon V

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His lord father had once talked about raising new lords and settling them in the abandoned holdfasts as a shield against wildlings.  The plan would have required the Watch to yield back a large part of the Gift, but his uncle Benjen believed the Lord Commander could be won around, so long as the new lordlings paid taxes to Castle Black rather then Winterfell.  "It is a dream for spring," Lord Eddard had said. "Even the promise of land will not lure men north with a winter coming on."

If winter had come and gone more quickly and spring had followed in its turn, I might have been chosen to hold one of these towers in my father's name.

 

[TMIFairy]

13 hours ago, Springwatch said:

Robert also forgets his bastards really easily - but someone was making sure they had a good start in life: Edric, Gendry and Mya were all looked after.

The key word here is "someone".

1 - Edric - too high profile mother and too widely known scandal - hence simply cannot be ignored. Robert's comportment here is near the "norm" for such cases, IMO. 

2 - Gendry - IMO this is yet another of Varys's games - the plotmaster keeps Robert's eldest male bastard in reserve - "just in case". You never know when you might need a Baratheon.

3 - Mya - Jon Arryn/or somebody in the Vale who cares. And let us not go overboard about the "care" here - she does not starve nor has to whore herself, true, but she is raised as smallfolk. AFAIK Mya is not acknowledged so the "Stone" surname is more a curtesy, a nod to the fact the "everybody knows" who her sire is, then sign of her "legal" status.

Robert does not give a shit about his bastards. See Bella - a contemporary of Robb and Jon - earning her keep on her back in a brothel.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

2 hours ago, Yet Another Stark Fan said:

is there any legitimate evidence that Jon is "dumb"?

For Jon's and Starks' haters there are but they aren't in the books. There are at their fan fictions.

[devilish]

12 hours ago, Agent Orange said:

Jon gets to marry Big Walda in this case and Walder gives him her weight in silver.  It's a rosey future for a bastard like Jon.  I don't think Walder is as bad of a guy as the staunch stark supporters make him out to be. 

Exactly. After Robert's rebellion the Freys were in a precarious position. The King didn't like them, Hoster hated them and he was linked to half Westerosi nobility and all that kept them from sinking was that marriage with Genna which provided them with Lannister protection. A marriage between Walda and Jon would bring the gratitude + the protection of the Starks. If Hoster acted silly then the North will possibly take the role of mediator between the two and the conflict would fizzle away quickly.

 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

31 minutes ago, devilish said:

A marriage between Walda and Jon

A marriage between Walda and Jon would had been a grievous insult to Walder's prestige and honour.  Not to mention that Ned would had never allowed it.

[Shi Qiang]

7 hours ago, Yet Another Stark Fan said:

is there any legitimate evidence that Jon is "dumb"?

"You know nothing, Jon Snow" is one of the most repeated phrases in the text. 

Fat Walda's weight in silver would pretty much buy a nice life for Jon but I don't know that Walder would be so generous with this pairing.  Roose already had property and a castle to bring Walda to.  Jon has youth on his side but I don't think that's an important selling point from the Frey's pov. 

[Springwatch]

9 hours ago, TMIFairy said:

The key word here is "someone".

1 - Edric - too high profile mother and too widely known scandal - hence simply cannot be ignored. Robert's comportment here is near the "norm" for such cases, IMO. 

2 - Gendry - IMO this is yet another of Varys's games - the plotmaster keeps Robert's eldest male bastard in reserve - "just in case". You never know when you might need a Baratheon.

3 - Mya - Jon Arryn/or somebody in the Vale who cares. And let us not go overboard about the "care" here - she does not starve nor has to whore herself, true, but she is raised as smallfolk. AFAIK Mya is not acknowledged so the "Stone" surname is more a curtesy, a nod to the fact the "everybody knows" who her sire is, then sign of her "legal" status.

I'm not saying Robert was a good parent, but a king can make a big difference with very little effort. All he has to do is wave a hand to Varys or Jon Arryn, and say "I want the child looked after." And so he does:

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[Stannis] "... My royal brother played the fond father on his visits to Storm's End, and there were gifts ... swords and ponies and fur-trimmed cloaks. The eunuch's work, every one. The boy would write the Red Keep full of thanks, and Robert would laugh and ask Varys what he'd sent this year...."

Gendry was apprenticed to a very rich craftsman - he can expect a career with money and status. Mya also has a job she likes, as part of the household of the Lord of the Eyrie. This is far more than the minimum Varys would need for a bit of scheming.

9 hours ago, TMIFairy said:

Robert does not give a shit about his bastards. See Bella - a contemporary of Robb and Jon - earning her keep on her back in a brothel.

Robert doesn't know half his bastards exist. No-one does. For the rest, he's neglectful, but not unkind.

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[Cersei] "... His bastards had always gurgled at him happily, and sucked his finger when he put it in their little baseborn mouths. Robert wanted smiles and cheers, always, so he went where he found them, to his friends and his whores. Robert wanted to be loved...."

Judging by the testimony of the latest mother, the whores like him and expect kindness from him. They probably know him as well as anyone.

Getting too close to the bastards would have done them no favours:

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[Cersei] Her husband's by-blows had his look as well, though at least Robert had the grace to keep them out of sight. Once, after that sorry business with the cat, he had made some noises about bringing some baseborn daughter of his to court. "Do as you please," she'd told him, "but you may find the city is not a healthy place for a growing girl."

So Robert couldn't be a good father even if he'd wanted to (he didn't). But it's still one heck of an advantage to a poor child to be Robert's bastard.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

2 hours ago, Springwatch said:

Robert doesn't know half his bastards exist. No-one does.

According to some people here Robert should had either stalking his one night stands or have a harem.

[Pikachu101]

15 hours ago, Yet Another Stark Fan said:

is there any legitimate evidence that Jon is "dumb"?  

He was astute enough at 14 to realise that the Night's Watch was the only chance of ever leaving Robb's shadow and becoming his own man, that's a fact regardless of Wot5K happened or not 

[Roswell]

On 6/28/2017 at 5:51 AM, devilish said:

Jon Snow starting going out of track when he was ordered by a living legend ( Qhorin ) to do so. If Jon Snow had Selmy as tutor then rest assured than he would have remained as straight as an arrow as most Starks are. That of course, unless, the next king is the mad king v2. If Joffrey hurts Sansa then there's a big chance that we'll have a kingslayer V2

He could have Arthur Dayne as his mentor and he still would betray the office if it came down to choosing between his king and Arya.  And it wouldn't matter who the king was.  Jon started to go off track when he found out there was a way to pull Arya from her marriage. 

[devilish]

1 minute ago, The Transporter said:

He could have Arthur Dayne as his mentor and he still would betray the office if it came down to choosing between his king and Arya.  And it wouldn't matter who the king was.  Jon started to go off track when he found out there was a way to pull Arya from her marriage. 

What makes you think that Sir Arthur Dayne didn't betray his king? Think about it. His king was in KL, his army was fighting at the trident and yet.....the sword in the morning was guarding Rhaegar's concubine. Not the king, not the crown prince, not the royal family but......Lyanna.

Also note that Jon Snow reacted to the pink letter which demands were so outrageous that no one with a shred of honour could accept. Seriously, its like bashing Jon Arryn for rebelling against Aerys when the latter ordered him to execute two innocent young men. 

 

[Roswell]

4 minutes ago, devilish said:

What makes you think that Sir Arthur Dayne didn't betray his king? Think about it. His king was in KL, his army was fighting at the trident and yet.....the sword in the morning was guarding Rhaegar's concubine. Not the king, not the crown prince, not the royal family but......Lyanna.

There are many other reasons for Arthur being there.   Read the words carefully spoken by the White Bull and it was very clear that those three men were loyal to King Aerys II all the way to the end. 

Also note that Jon Snow reacted to the pink letter which demands were so outrageous that no one with a shred of honour could accept. Seriously, its like bashing Jon Arryn for rebelling against Aerys when the latter ordered him to execute two innocent young men. 

The situation would not have come to that point if Jon had not sent his wildlings to take his sister from the Boltons.  What Jon did was an act of war.  He started that fight. It was all his fault.

 

 

[Lady Maester]

I personally think Ned believed the wall would be good for Jon, would harden him and keep him dutiful. He wanted to eventually tell Jon about his mother. if Jon becomes a man of the nights watch, he is bound by duty to not do something stupid and reckless because of who his parents were. I think Ned felt it was a good way to move towards being honest with Jon. 

[Lady Noble]

I don't think Jon would have gone anywhere Ghost wasn't allowed or able to live happily. I kind of think he chose the wall in part because of Ghost seeing as that's his homeland or whatever. 

[Graydon Hicks]

On 7/1/2017 at 9:12 AM, Allardyce said:

"You know nothing, Jon Snow" is one of the most repeated phrases in the text. 

Fat Walda's weight in silver would pretty much buy a nice life for Jon but I don't know that Walder would be so generous with this pairing.  Roose already had property and a castle to bring Walda to.  Jon has youth on his side but I don't think that's an important selling point from the Frey's pov. 

i think thats more a shot at his naivety rather than his intelligence.

[Graydon Hicks]

i still vote towards either knighthood, and their are knight that follow gods in the north, i just dont think they went through the whole knighting ritual of the andals, like the vigil and what have you. likely were battlefield knightings for deeds on the field.

or being given a small holding somewhere. provides for his future but gets him out of winterfell, and sets him on a path of his own without pointing him towards his valyian heritage.