Sansa and the Savage Giant

[LynnS]

21 minutes ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

Therefore, why can't the GoHH's prophecy and Bran's vision be about 2 respective giants and the symbolism just happens to overlap with both?  I'm thinking it doesn't have to be either / or.  The unexpected way of the prophecy working itself out is that it works more than one way.   

 

Yes, I agree.  A giant armored in stone and a savage giant are not the same.  In this story, giants come in all shapes and sizes.  LOL.  It would be satisfying for Sansa to revenge herself on LF and Arya to take out Robert Strong with her armor piercing needle; but I'm never a hundred sure of Martin's allusions and ambiguities.  I'm always expecting a curve ball.

[Springwatch]

Littlefinger as giant falls really flat for me. The only link seem to be his father's old sigil, which is just trivia - on a level with that crashingly mundane 'smoke and salt' imagery surrounding Jon in later chapters. It feels like a red herring, in fact. The real deal is the Titan of Braavos itself - that's where to look for foreshadowing. The sigil just doesn't belong on the same page - it's Sweetrobin's doll versus a real giant all over again.

I'm not even sure LF will need killing. If all his plans and ambitions come to nothing, if he has lost the game beyond all hope of return, then I think he might sacrifice himself for Alayne/Sansa. Suicide by chivalry, sort of thing.

The 'real' giants I see are Robert Strong literally, and Tyrion metaphorically. Either or both might need a team effort from both girls plus their shadow knights.

[Le Cygne]

That doesn't sound like Littlefinger at all. If anything, if all was lost, he'd take Sansa down just like he took Catelyn down. If they don't play along with him, he either forces them, or cuts his losses, in the cruelest ways. No, I want Sansa to kill Littlefinger, and that's what I think GOHH's dream is suggesting will happen.

[Blue-Eyed Wolf]

33 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Yes, I agree.  A giant armored in stone and a savage giant are not the same.  In this story, giants come in all shapes and sizes.  LOL.  It would be satisfying for Sansa to revenge herself on LF and Arya to take out Robert Strong with her armor piercing needle; but I'm never a hundred sure of Martin's allusions and ambiguities.  I'm always expecting a curve ball.

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me for Arya to encounter the Mountain again.  Her father sent Beric Dondarrion and his men to hunt the Mountain and he failed. The BwB, while claiming to be defenders of the people in the name of King Robert, have been compromised morally as well for a long time now.  Arya is someone who has always been interested in fairness and justice across class boundaries.  She's Batman of course  I like the idea of Arya meeting Brienne, as the latter dispatched two people connected to Arya already:  Rorge and Biter.  Brienne is as true a knight as they come.  I think it might then be very fitting that the two of them deal with someone connected to both of them:  unCat and reform the brotherhood under new management, resuming their original purpose to deal with the Mountain.  

As far as Bran's vision, can we really be certain then who is actually inside any of the armor?  I mean, the Hound's helm is in Lem Lemoncloak's hands now.  If there's been a switch of the wearer, what if Jaime isn't in the golden armor anymore?  One handed and still practicing fighting with his off-hand, I don't see him successfully fighting in the near future.  This might be oh-so-speculative but what if Brienne takes up wearing Jaime's armor to fight on his hehalf?  She's already using the sword he gave her for the purpose of protecting Ned's daughter with Ned's own steel.  He jumped down into the bear pit and fought on her behalf.  Jaime dreamed of fighting along side Brienne (naked) iirc.  Brienne already feels like the she is fighting to reclaim Jaime's lost honor.     

[ravenous reader]

On 7/2/2017 at 1:42 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

The first two were clearly Sandor and Jaime. The third proved to be more enigmatic. . .

 

13 hours ago, LynnS said:

A giant armored in stone and a savage giant are not the same.  In this story, giants come in all shapes and sizes.  LOL.  It would be satisfying for Sansa to revenge herself on LF and Arya to take out Robert Strong with her armor piercing needle; but I'm never a hundred sure of Martin's allusions and ambiguities.  I'm always expecting a curve ball

 

12 hours ago, Springwatch said:

Littlefinger as giant falls really flat for me. The only link seem to be his father's old sigil, which is just trivia - on a level with that crashingly mundane 'smoke and salt' imagery surrounding Jon in later chapters. It feels like a red herring

There's more subtle, less 'mundane' symbolism attached to Littlefinger as the giant in both visions than the sigil.  As @LynnS reminds us, 'giants come in all shapes and sizes,' so the 'curve ball' is that we're probably looking for a 'giant presence' rather than a literally big person.  Bear in mind that this information is coming to Bran and the GOHH in a dream, so instead of seeing literal images of reality, rather the underlying reality or subconscious reality, 'the truth that lies beneath the world', is being revealed to the seer via more metaphorical images.  The 'giant' in question is a giant not in physical but mental stature, and he moreover presents a huge threat to House Stark, despite his unimposing physique.

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A Storm of Swords - Sansa VII

Sansa was wary. "Don't break it. Be . . ."

". . . gentle?" He smiled. "Winterfell has withstood fiercer enemies than me.

Said shortly before Littlefinger steps over her castle like a giant (note, he also didn't wait for her consent before 'entering her castle,' a clear sexual allusion with 'rape' overtones -- recall Tyrion quipping on his wedding night to Sansa about playing 'come into my castle' with her and 'smashing her portcullis'...). 

And, no, Winterfell has never seen as fierce a foe as this one!  

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When he had enough, he stepped over both walls with a single long stride and squatted on his heels in the middle of the yard. 

The 'stone giant' is also an allusion to his name Petyr -- from the Latin 'petrus' = stone or rock, as well as how he transforms Sansa into a Stone (Alayne), in other words 'petrifies' her, a nod to the myth of the Gorgon.  Further, when the GOHH sees the maid with purple serpents on her head, this is actually an amalgamation of two people, the proxy assassin together with the real murderer; respectively, Sansa the patsy (the maid) with Petyr (the purple serpents) sitting on her head orchestrating events and mentally manipulating her (hence the position on the head in close proximity to the brain); similar to the other related vision of the crow overseer sitting on the faceless man's shoulder, symbolising Euron and his proxy assassin, respectively.  By arranging for Sansa to wear the hairnet, Petyr snared Sansa in his trap -- a net is a trap.  The ulterior motive in fact behind the whole wedding plot was to frame Sansa for the murder, inducing her to leave King's Landing with him, her one-and-only 'saviour,' thereby catching his coveted Tully fish in a net of his design.  

Ned has a similar intimation regarding Littlefinger operating 'behind the scenes', also in a dream, which has echoes of Bran's dream of the stone giant with nothing behind the visor but black blood.  When Ned rips off the mask (the visor equivalent), behind the 'Robert armor' he finds Littlefinger's leering grin and cavernous mouth out of which 'pale grey moths' (the 'black blood' equivalent) swarm.

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A Game of Thrones - Eddard XV

I failed you, Robert, Ned thought. He could not say the words. I lied to you, hid the truth. I let them kill you.

The king heard him. "You stiff-necked fool," he muttered, "too proud to listen. Can you eat pride, Stark? Will honor shield your children?" Cracks ran down his face, fissures opening in the flesh, and he reached up and ripped the mask away. It was not Robert at all; it was Littlefinger, grinning, mocking him. When he opened his mouth to speak, his lies turned to pale grey moths and took wing.

Ned was half-asleep when the footsteps came down the hall. At first he thought he dreamt them; it had been so long since he had heard anything but the sound of his own voice. Ned was feverish by then, his leg a dull agony, his lips parched and cracked. When the heavy wooden door creaked open, the sudden light was painful to his eyes.

Then, we should also consider all the other cases of 'giant' symbolism where GRRM coyly uses a giant analogy to refer counter-intuitively to a physically small, rather unattractive person -- including, for example, Bedwyck the small guy nicknamed 'Giant'; and Tyrion 'my giant of Lannister', whom Aemon, however, recognises as a formidable presence, despite his attempts to slip under the radar with his tomfoolery (as was the case for Bran via the so-called coma dream or Ned via the so-called fever dream, it takes a blind man to recognise the truth, to see the giant in the dwarf, paradoxically):

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A Game of Thrones - Tyrion III

As Rykker filled it for him, Bowen Marsh said, "You have a great thirst for a small man."

"Oh, I think that Lord Tyrion is quite a large man," Maester Aemon said from the far end of the table. He spoke softly, yet the high officers of the Night's Watch all fell quiet, the better to hear what the ancient had to say. "I think he is a giant come among us, here at the end of the world."

Tyrion answered gently, "I've been called many things, my lord, but giant is seldom one of them."

 

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A Storm of Swords - Samwell II

"That one's dead." Craster eyed the man with indifference as he worried at a sausage. "Be kinder to stick a knife in his chest than that spoon down his throat, you ask me."

"I don't recall as we did." Giant was no more than five feet tall—his true name was Bedwyck—but a fierce little man for all that. 

 

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A Clash of Kings - Tyrion II

"So power is a mummer's trick?"

"A shadow on the wall," Varys murmured, "yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow."

A further example of the same trend of the 'dwarf behind the giant' is represented by Bran the small crippled boy skinchanging Hodor, or Varamyr with his 'six skins' and counting.  It's one of GRRM's favorite themes -- the lumpish, runtish, academic 'underdog' outwitting bigger, more handsome, seemingly more robust specimens... -- so we could go on all day gathering an extensive list of overlooked 'underdogs' who would also qualify as metaphorical giants.

Whoever this 'giant' in the respective prophecies refers to, I would look for someone in each case who poses a threat to the Starks (he looms ominously in Bran's dream, while a Stark maid feels compelled to take him out in the GOHH's vision) who is ironically a physically small, yet fierce man -- which is more likely to be the catch GRRM intended.  On the other hand, who knows what GRRM intends for sure?  As we're reminded on any given 'heresy' discussion,  'We just don't know, yet!'

[LynnS]

42 minutes ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

Brienne is as true a knight as they come.

Oh agreed 100%.  She's probably the only true knight in this story and I suspect she will be looking for Arya until the very end and find her thus:

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A Game of Thrones - Arya I

Jon watched them leave, and Arya watched Jon. His face had grown as still as the pool at the heart of the godswood. Finally he climbed down off the window. "The show is done," he said. He bent to scratch Ghost behind the ears. The white wolf rose and rubbed against him. "You had best run back to your room, little sister. Septa Mordane will surely be lurking. The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You'll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers."

 

As for the golden man; I'm fair convinced this is Jaime and I suspect that without a sword hand; he will take up the 'shield' and the spear.  That he will prove to be 'the shield and the light', to Jon's sword and fire, Sam's horn and watcher on the wall.  I'm referring of course to the vow of the Night's Watch.  Is it a coincidence that the table in the LC's quarters is a shield made of weirwood?

     

[LynnS]

19 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

On the other hand, who knows what GRRM intends for sure?

There seems to me a difference between a stone giant and savage giant; something that is fierce, violent and uncontrollable.  I'm not sure that I'd characterize Petyr this way.   This would fit more with my notion of Robert Strong unchained from Qyburn, Ramsey Bolton or Euron.  Perhaps even Rickon/Shaggy Dog.

[ravenous reader]

4 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Oh agreed 100%.  She's probably the only true knight in this story and I suspect she will be looking for Arya until the very end and find her thus:

 

 

As for the golden man; I'm fair convinced this is Jaime and I suspect that without a sword hand; he will take up the 'shield' and the spear.  That he will prove to be 'the shield and the light', to Jon's sword and fire, Sam's horn and watcher on the wall.  I'm referring of course to the vow of the Night's Watch.  Is it a coincidence that the table in the LC's quarters is a shield made of weirwood?

     

I like that.  But then what do you make of Jaime's 'otherization' process in which he's slowly beginning to resemble not only the Starks but also the Others (e.g. the colors and the shaggy beard, etc.):

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A Feast for Crows - Jaime III

I had hoped that by now you would have grown tired of that wretched beard. All that hair makes you look like Robert." His sister had put aside her mourning for a jade-green gown with sleeves of silver Myrish lace. An emerald the size of a pigeon's egg hung on a golden chain about her neck.

"Robert's beard was black. Mine is gold."

"Gold? Or silver?" Cersei plucked a hair from beneath his chin and held it up. It was grey. "All the color is draining out of you, brother. You've become a ghost of what you were, a pale crippled thing. And so bloodless, always in white." She flicked the hair away. "I prefer you garbed in crimson and gold."

 

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A Storm of Swords - Jaime VIII

As pale as the room, Jaime sat by the book in his Kingsguard whites, waiting for his Sworn Brothers. A longsword hung from his hip. From the wrong hip. Before he had always worn his sword on his left, and drawn it across his body when he unsheathed. He had shifted it to his right hip this morning, so as to be able to draw it with his left hand in the same manner, but the weight of it felt strange there, and when he had tried to pull the blade from the scabbard the whole motion seemed clumsy and unnatural. His clothing fit badly as well. He had donned the winter raiment of the Kingsguard, a tunic and breeches of bleached white wool and a heavy white cloak, but it all seemed to hang loose on him.

Jaime had spent his days at his brother's trial, standing well to the back of the hall. Either Tyrion never saw him there or he did not know him, but that was no surprise. Half the court no longer seemed to know him. I am a stranger in my own House. His son was dead, his father had disowned him, and his sister . . . she had not allowed him to be alone with her once, after that first day in the royal sept where Joffrey lay amongst the candles. Even when they bore him across the city to his tomb in the Great Sept of Baelor, Cersei kept a careful distance.

He looked about the Round Room once more. White wool hangings covered the walls, and there was a white shield and two crossed longswords mounted above the hearth. The chair behind the table was old black oak, with cushions of blanched cowhide, the leather worn thin. Worn by the bony arse of Barristan the Bold and Ser Gerold Hightower before him, by Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, Ser Ryam Redwyne, and the Demon of Darry, by Ser Duncan the Tall and the Pale Griffin Alyn Connington. How could the Kingslayer belong in such exalted company?

 

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A Game of Thrones - Catelyn X

She nodded as the woods grew still around them. In the quiet she could hear them, far off yet moving closer; the tread of many horses, the rattle of swords and spears and armor, the murmur of human voices, with here a laugh, and there a curse.

Eons seemed to come and go. The sounds grew louder. She heard more laughter, a shouted command, splashing as they crossed and recrossed the little stream. A horse snorted. A man swore. And then at last she saw him … only for an instant, framed between the branches of the trees as she looked down at the valley floor, yet she knew it was him. Even at a distance, Ser Jaime Lannister was unmistakable. The moonlight had silvered his armor and the gold of his hair, and turned his crimson cloak to black. He was not wearing a helm.

He was there and he was gone again, his silvery armor obscured by the trees once more. Others came behind him, long columns of them, knights and sworn swords and freeriders, three quarters of the Lannister horse.

 

[Springwatch]

5 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

I like that.  But then what do you make of Jaime's 'otherization' process in which he's slowly beginning to resemble not only the Starks but also the Others (e.g. the colors and the shaggy beard, etc.):

Kingsguard are described as 'white shadows' multiple times. Not sure where that leads...

[LynnS]

2 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

I like that.  But then what do you make of Jaime's 'otherization' process in which he's slowly beginning to resemble not only the Starks but also the Others (e.g. the colors and the shaggy beard, etc.):

My wild guess is that this foreshadows Jaime's ending up at the Wall in league with Jon and Sam in the fight against the enemy whomever that turns out to be.  The black brother and white brother together.   The 3EC tells Bran that he doesn't need Jamie now.  If not now, when?

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A Game of Thrones - Bran III

There are different kinds of wings, the crow said.

Bran was staring at his arms, his legs. He was so skinny, just skin stretched taut over bones. Had he always been so thin? He tried to remember. A face swam up at him out of the grey mist, shining with light, golden.

"The things I do for love," it said.

 

The crow took to the air, cawing. Not that, it shrieked at him. Forget that, you do not need it now, put it aside, put it away. It landed on Bran's shoulder, and pecked at him, and the shining golden face was gone.

 

A Clash of Kings - Bran II

That night Bran prayed to his father's gods for dreamless sleep. If the gods heard, they mocked his hopes, for the nightmare they sent was worse than any wolf dream.

"Fly or die!" cried the three-eyed crow as it pecked at him. He wept and pleaded but the crow had no pity. It put out his left eye and then his right, and when he was blind in the dark it pecked at his brow, driving its terrible sharp beak deep into his skull. He screamed until he was certain his lungs must burst. The pain was an axe splitting his head apart, but when the crow wrenched out its beak all slimy with bits of bone and brain, Bran could see again. What he saw made him gasp in fear. He was clinging to a tower miles high, and his fingers were slipping, nails scrabbling at the stone, his legs dragging him down, stupid useless dead legs. "Help me!" he cried. A golden man appeared in the sky above him and pulled him up. "The things I do for love," he murmured softly as he tossed him out kicking into empty air.

 

I'm curious what choice Lady Stoneheart will give Jaime since he cannot wield a sword and whether she will send him to the wall for an oathbreaker.

[LynnS]

13 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

Kingsguard are described as 'white shadows' multiple times. Not sure where that leads...

Indeed, that suggests something about the origins of the kingsguard that may be related to the Night's Watch when there was honor in serving as a knight on the Wall.   Another wild guess is that Jon, Jaime and Sam will be joined by 9 white walkers, the same number of swords in the king of winter's crown and the same number of trees in the godswood where Jon takes his vow.  Making 12 companions, with Ghost as the 13th.

[Daemon the Leaner]

Then what if this Savage Giant stuff what just a GoHH mistake ? 

We know for sure some prophecies which never happened (or not in the way we'd thought), as the "Stallion who will mount the world" or the Melisandre propaganda with Stannis being Azor Ahai. So, must we think that GoHH's prophecies are always accurate ?

[Springwatch]

1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

<snip>

An excellent answer. I'll accept LF as a savage giant, but maybe not a black-blooded one - black blood has got to be the undead.

[Nevets]

I think the 'savage giant" of the prophecy is Petyr Baelish, for the reasons mentioned above.  However, I will be keeping a close eye on any Umbers that happen to show up in Sansa's story.  After all, their sigil is not only a giant, but specifically a giant with broken chains, or a savage giant.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

I like that.  But then what do you make of Jaime's 'otherization' process in which he's slowly beginning to resemble not only the Starks but also the Others (e.g. the colors and the shaggy beard, etc.):

 

 

 

I think that in order for Jaime to come full circle, he needs to meet Bran once again. A lot of readers see Bran going dark, but I personally view his story of one of a higher wisdom, of learning to forgive rather than to seek revenge. If Jaime does die, I like to think that it will be to protect Bran, and I think this will come to pass not only out of genuine guilt and a desire to do better, but also out of a wiser and humbler Bran granting Jaime something that no one else ever has: forgiveness. 

[ravenous reader]

10 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think that in order for Jaime to come full circle, he needs to meet Bran once again. A lot of readers see Bran going dark, but I personally view his story of one of a higher wisdom, of learning to forgive rather than to seek revenge. If Jaime does die, I like to think that it will be to protect Bran, and I think this will come to pass not only out of genuine guilt and a desire to do better, but also out of a wiser and humbler Bran granting Jaime something that no one else ever has: forgiveness. 

That's also what I see.  This is a story about evolving towards self-sacrifice.  I think we'll see Bran and Jaime both ultimately choosing to sacrifice themselves for others instead of harming them -- turning the hypocrisy of 'the things I do for love' on its head!  

11 hours ago, LynnS said:

My wild guess is that this foreshadows Jaime's ending up at the Wall in league with Jon and Sam in the fight against the enemy whomever that turns out to be.  The black brother and white brother together.   The 3EC tells Bran that he doesn't need Jamie now.  If not now, when?

 

Good catch!  Also, recall @evita mgfs's awesome catch of the ironic poetic justice entailed in Jaime's injunction addressed to Bran to 'Take my hand'... In return for Jaime extending a hand to Bran in bad faith, pretending to pull him to safety as would befit his knightly vows to protect the young and innocent, and then promptly letting him down by flinging him out again with the same hand, Jaime later on forfeits that same hand -- when it's literally taken from him by the Mummers!  Moreover, since Bran can be understood on a figurative level to have taken Jaime's sword hand, does that make Jaime in some sense Bran's sworn sword, or Hand?  Consider when Jaqen swears his allegiance to Arya in the godswood, he places his hand into the mouth of the weirwood, which symbolically implies the tree biting off the hand, for Arya's consumption!

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I'm curious what choice Lady Stoneheart will give Jaime since he cannot wield a sword and whether she will send him to the wall for an oathbreaker.

 

I don't know.  I tend to think Brienne will assassinate her out-of-control death mistress before she can harm Jaime, in a mirror of Jaime's oathbreaking/kingslaying of Aerys.  GRRM does so love his twists of karmic irony -- after all, for a long time Brienne looked down on Jaime, mocking him for doing just that.  I would love to see her put Stoneheart out of her misery using Oathkeeper -- Oathbreaking via Oathkeeper...priceless!  

11 hours ago, LynnS said:

There seems to me a difference between a stone giant and savage giant; something that is fierce, violent and uncontrollable.  I'm not sure that I'd characterize Petyr this way.   This would fit more with my notion of Robert Strong unchained from Qyburn, Ramsey Bolton or Euron.  Perhaps even Rickon/Shaggy Dog.

On the other hand, it's implied Petyr is a savage beast here:

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A Game of Thrones - Eddard VIII

When he had gone, Eddard Stark went to the window and sat brooding. Robert had left him no choice that he could see. He ought to thank him. It would be good to return to Winterfell. He ought never have left. His sons were waiting there. Perhaps he and Catelyn would make a new son together when he returned, they were not so old yet. And of late he had often found himself dreaming of snow, of the deep quiet of the wolfswood at night.

And yet, the thought of leaving angered him as well. So much was still undone. Robert and his council of cravens and flatterers would beggar the realm if left unchecked … or, worse, sell it to the Lannisters in payment of their loans. And the truth of Jon Arryn's death still eluded him. Oh, he had found a few pieces, enough to convince him that Jon had indeed been murdered, but that was no more than the spoor of an animal on the forest floor. He had not sighted the beast itself yet, though he sensed it was there, lurking, hidden, treacherous.

In a brilliant stroke of GRRM's trademark dramatic irony, the 'beast' in question then insidiously makes an appearance later in the same scene, when Littlefinger arrives to 'see' Ned -- i.e. Ned 'sights' the beast he's been looking for without realizing it!  

Also, 'spoor on the forest floor' can refer to the characteristic droppings (faeces, animal scat) left behind by an animal, by which the animal may be identified, as follows:

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A Game of Thrones - Tyrion IV

Just for a moment, he thought he saw a flicker of doubt in her eyes, but what she said was, "Why would Petyr lie to me?"

"Why does a bear shit in the woods?" he demanded. "Because it is his nature. Lying comes as easily as breathing to a man like Littlefinger. You ought to know that, you of all people."

She took a step toward him, her face tight. "And what does that mean, Lannister?"

Putting 'two and two together,' we can now answer Cat's question, 'what does that mean' -- it means Littlefinger is a savage beast disturbing the sanctity of the woods, and not any old wood, the wolfswood, as is implied in the former quote.

10 hours ago, Springwatch said:

An excellent answer. I'll accept LF as a savage giant, but maybe not a black-blooded one - black blood has got to be the undead.

'Black blood' can also refer more generally to bastards, treachery, and belonging to the Night's Watch itself.  In the following quote, for example, I don't think Bloodraven is using the expression 'black of blood' to refer to his undead status, but rather to being a notorious Great Bastard who betrayed and murdered his own kin, a crime for which he was sent to the Wall:

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran II

"Are you the three-eyed crow?" Bran heard himself say. A three-eyed crow should have three eyes. He has only one, and that one red. Bran could feel the eye staring at him, shining like a pool of blood in the torchlight. Where his other eye should have been, a thin white root grew from an empty socket, down his cheek, and into his neck.

"A … crow?" The pale lord's voice was dry. His lips moved slowly, as if they had forgotten how to form words. "Once, aye. Black of garb and black of blood."

 

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A Game of Thrones - Arya III

"My daughter often forgets her courtesies," Eddard Stark said with a faint smile that softened his words. "I beg your forgiveness, Yoren. Did my brother Benjen send you?"

"No one sent me, m'lord, saving old Mormont. I'm here to find men for the Wall, and when Robert next holds court, I'll bend the knee and cry our need, see if the king and his Hand have some scum in the dungeons they'd be well rid of. You might say as Benjen Stark is why we're talking, though. His blood ran black. Made him my brother as much as yours. It's for his sake I'm come. Rode hard, I did, near killed my horse the way I drove her, but I left the others well behind."

"The others?"

 

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A Clash of Kings - Jon III

"Good. Craster's Keep is just ahead. If the gods are good, he'll let us sleep by his fire."

Sam looked dubious. "Dolorous Edd says Craster's a terrible savage. He marries his daughters and obeys no laws but those he makes himself. And Dywen told Grenn he's got black blood in his veins. His mother was a wildling woman who lay with a ranger, so he's a bas . . ." Suddenly he realized what he was about to say.

"A bastard," Jon said with a laugh. "You can say it, Sam. I've heard the word before." He put the spurs to his surefooted little garron. "I need to hunt down Ser Ottyn. Be careful around Craster's women." As if Samwell Tarly needed warning on that score. "We'll talk later, after we've made camp."

Maybe Littlefinger is a bastard?  Perhaps he'll become a kinslayer too?  Does killing his wife in cold blood qualify?

[Blue-Eyed Wolf]

There's another connection of the Titan of Braavos to sexual menace in Arya I, AFFC:

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The Titan of Braavos. Old Nan had told them stories of the Titan back in Winterfell. He was a giant as tall as a mountain, and whenever Braavos stood in danger he would wake with fire in his eyes, his rocky limbs grinding and groaning as he waded out into the sea to smash the enemies. "The Braavosi feed him on the juicy pink flesh of little highborn girls," Nan would end, and Sansa would give a stupid squeak. But Maester Luwin said the Titan was only a statue, and Old Nan's stories were only stories.

Old Nan does not "just" tell stories.  The ship Arya is aboard is called the Titan's Daughter and it passes through the legs of the statue on it's way into port:

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His legs bestrode the gap, one foot planted on each mountain, his shoulders looming tall above the jagged crests. His legs were carved of solid stone, the same black granite as the sea monts on which he stood, though around his hips he wore an armored skirt of greenish bronze. His breastplate was bronze as well, and his head in his crested halfhelm. His blowing hair was made of hempen ropes dyed green, and huge fires burned in the caves that were his eyes. One hand rested atop the ridge to his left, bronze fingers coiled about a knob of stone; the other thrust up into the air, clasping the hilt of a broken sword.

He stands astride over mountains as Petyr dominates the Vale.  One hand clutches a stone, as in Alayne Stone.  The other a broken sword, which is on display on the mantle of the Baelish holdings on the Fingers.

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He is only a little bigger than King Baelor's statue in King's Landing, she told herself when they were still well off to sea. As the galleas drove closer to where the breakers smashed against the ridgeline, however, the Titan grew larger still. She could hear Denyo's father bellowing commands in his deep voice, and up in the rigging men were bringing in the sails. We are going to row beneath the Titan's legs. Arya could see the arrow slits in the great bronze breastplate, and stains and speckles on the Titan's arms and shoulders where the seabirds nested. Her neck craned upward. Baelor the Blessed would not reach his knee. He could step right over the walls of Winterfell.

From a distance he looks so much smaller than he really is as Petyr Baelish is so unassuming and everyone's friend in King's Landing.  As she gets closer, the Titan really looms so much larger than she originally thought.  He certainly looms as the orchestrator of several plots across Westeros:  chiefly the Vale, (f) Arya in Winterfell, starting the conflict between Lannisters and Starks, and helping to ensure Ned's downfall.  He can step right over the walls of Winterfell, just as Petyr did in the snow castle.

And not trying to be super graphic but the word choices honestly seem to speak of sexual threat, specifically forced oral sex.  Again, the line about the Titan feeding on highborn girls is repeated.      

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Wind and wave had the Titan's Daughter hard in hand now, driving her swiftly toward the channel. Her double bank of oars stroked smoothly, lashing the sea to white foam as the Titan's shadow fell upon them. For a moment it seemed as though they must surely smash up against the stones beneath his legs. Huddled by Denyo at the prow, Arya could taste salt where the spray had touched her face. She had to look straight up to see the Titan's head. "The Braavosi feed him on the juicy pink flesh of little highborn girls," she heard Old Nan say again, but she was not a little girl, and she would not be frightened of a stupid statue.
Even so, she kept one hand on Needle as they slipped between his legs. More arrow slits dotted the insides of those great stone thighs, and when Arya craned her neck around to watch the crow's nest slip through with a good ten yards to spare, she spied murder holes beneath the Titan's armored skirts, and pale faces staring down at them from behind the iron bars.

The arrow slits and murder holes invoke violence coming from specifically under the Titan's armored skirts.  Now I realize this also fits well with Arya's sample chapter

Spoiler

And she kills Raff the Sweetling (pervert that he is) by seducing him and knifing him in the thigh before stabbing him in the neck. 

But there's a lot of things that also fit with Petyr I think.  Again I think the giant / Titan symbolism can overlap and apply to more than one situation.  

[Blue-Eyed Wolf]

35 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Maybe Littlefinger is bastard?  Perhaps he'll become a kinslayer too?  Does killing his wife in cold blood qualify?

I'm still on the fence about SR possibly being Petyr's son, which I think would work here narratively because he is recklessly endangering him while he's using him to prop up his legitimacy as LP.  

[Ygrain]

9 hours ago, Sandokan I Ironborn said:

Then what if this Savage Giant stuff what just a GoHH mistake ? 

We know for sure some prophecies which never happened (or not in the way we'd thought), as the "Stallion who will mount the world" or the Melisandre propaganda with Stannis being Azor Ahai. So, must we think that GoHH's prophecies are always accurate ?

Well, if the Stallion is actually Dany or Drogon (she is his "mother", too, after all), then the prophecy is still at play.

9 hours ago, Springwatch said:

An excellent answer. I'll accept LF as a savage giant, but maybe not a black-blooded one - black blood has got to be the undead.

The black blood inside can have multiple meanings, especially if the giant is symbolic of LF's influence. LF is basically dead on the inside - he doesn't care for anyone and anything, kills without remorse and has no qualms about the death and suffering that his scheming bring to others. Even his affection for Sansa is a twisted, unhealthy thing. I don't see a single redeeming quality in the man, so the imagery of rotten black blood inside works just fine for me.

ETA: Oh, and one more thing why it should be LF: it is weird that the vision should place such an emphasis on a character that is relatively unimportant for most of the Starks involved, and not hint in any way at the one who is behind everything.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Wow! this thread got really good. There have been some truly excellent posts here. I am more convinced than ever about Sansa killing LF and him being both the stone and the savage giant. One thing I will add, given the increasing evidence in the text that Peytr will try to force a sex act oral or intercourse on Sansa, I think any and all claims that he could not be called savage in that instance are null and void. Yes? I do not like the idea of her killing him being due to his assaulting her, as I really prefer it to be a choice she makes after learning of his crimes. A true justice for everything he has done. but I will admit it really does seem likely that it will be for sex crimes specifically against her. Though to be honest that does fit rather well with her own story arc, which is hugely about gaining her sexual agency. So to resist and assault and execute him for attempting to violate her personally does fall well within her theme. 

I like the stuff people have pulled up on Jaime too. I do wonder where his story is headed. I've had a few ideas over the years and this stuff here seems interesting and plausible too. I do like the idea of him ending up at the wall.