BalerionTheCat Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 18 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said: I think Jon will support Rickon as figurehead to take back the North for the Starks. With the support of the loyal Northern lords like the Mormonts and Glovers amongst others. Rickon is still practically a babe. He has no other justification in GRRM story than that. Why a child so young? Meaning Bran will never return and Jon will be something else than the Lord of Winterfell or King in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 2 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said: Rickon is still practically a babe. He has no other justification in GRRM story than that. Why a child so young? Meaning Bran will never return and Jon will be something else than the Lord of Winterfell or King in the North. Bran will return. But he can't have children, so will likely rule as Prince of Winterfell until he merges with Winterfell's Heart tree. At which point Rickon will take over as his heir, with Rickon's sons becoming the Stark ruling line thereafter. Else the Starks are extinct in the male line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Mormont Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 I have been assuming that once Glover and Maege found Reed, news of the Red Wedding had reached them. Now they are stuck. If they reappear, then they must swear allegiance to Bolton and that is probably not something they want to do. Maybe their plan was to sneak back home once Bolton's army passed the Neck, or perhaps they are waiting for the right opportunity to be some use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 5 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said: Bran will return. But he can't have children, so will likely rule as Prince of Winterfell until he merges with Winterfell's Heart tree. At which point Rickon will take over as his heir, with Rickon's sons becoming the Stark ruling line thereafter. Else the Starks are extinct in the male line. Possibly. But it is more complicated than Bran merging with the Weirwoods of the Children's cavern. A more grandiose place IMO. I believe he will be welded to the tree very soon. I believe it is necessary to reach his full potential. If Bran returns, he will find Rickon on their father's seat. Taking the place, to leave it later serves nothing. IMO the move is not justified, needed, by the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 4 hours ago, Chris Mormont said: I have been assuming that once Glover and Maege found Reed, news of the Red Wedding had reached them. Now they are stuck. If they reappear, then they must swear allegiance to Bolton and that is probably not something they want to do. Maybe their plan was to sneak back home once Bolton's army passed the Neck, or perhaps they are waiting for the right opportunity to be some use I think there could well be a little bit of that. There is a also the possibility they are staying with Reed because it is a good position from which to act. Whomever Robb named as heir, they can't take that crown unless there is a kingdom and the main reason the kingdom fell apart after his death is that all the hostages taken at the RW meant most houses had to dip their knee to the Iron Throne. The Neck borders the Frey lands, so although assaulting the Twins would be foolhardy the moment the hostages are on the road to Kings Landing an attack can be launched from the marshes to rescue them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 36 minutes ago, Buried Treasure said: I think there could well be a little bit of that. There is a also the possibility they are staying with Reed because it is a good position from which to act. Whomever Robb named as heir, they can't take that crown unless there is a kingdom and the main reason the kingdom fell apart after his death is that all the hostages taken at the RW meant most houses had to dip their knee to the Iron Throne. The Neck borders the Frey lands, so although assaulting the Twins would be foolhardy the moment the hostages are on the road to Kings Landing an attack can be launched from the marshes to rescue them. And that's something that may be underway already, since Jaime told Edwyn Frey in Feast that he was to inform Lord Walter that the crown required all the RW hostages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknownfinger Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 On 7/6/2017 at 7:02 PM, kissdbyfire said: And that's something that may be underway already, since Jaime told Edwyn Frey in Feast that he was to inform Lord Walter that the crown required all the RW hostages. I feel as though we have met here at this very plot point recently but yes I think TWOW starts with a raid to rescue the RW hostages that, at least in part, goes terrible wrong in one way or another. Specifically, I fear for Jeyne Westerling and Edmure Tully. Jeyne because she was innocent of her horrific mother's scheming and Edmure because even though his job was to be a lord of a great house and he was going to be pretty bad at that he was willing to shelter and feed smallfolk at Riverrun during the war and that was not without cost to him in the event of a long siege. Edmure is bad at being a lord but good at being human imo. I see at least one, if not both, dying during this rescue attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 7 hours ago, Unknownfinger said: I feel as though we have met here at this very plot point recently but yes I think TWOW starts with a raid to rescue the RW hostages that, at least in part, goes terrible wrong in one way or another. Specifically, I fear for Jeyne Westerling and Edmure Tully. Jeyne because she was innocent of her horrific mother's scheming and Edmure because even though his job was to be a lord of a great house and he was going to be pretty bad at that he was willing to shelter and feed smallfolk at Riverrun during the war and that was not without cost to him in the event of a long siege. Edmure is bad at being a lord but good at being human imo. I see at least one, if not both, dying during this rescue attempt. Yeah, I have the same feeling... But Edmure and Jeyne wouldn't be w/ the RW hostages, would they? Edmure was to go to CR iirc - can't remember if he's on his way already. Jeyne and her horrific mum are also on their way west. And the RW hostages, when Walder Frey sends them on their way to KL - if he does send them - will travel from the Twins to KL... I agree w/ what you said about Edmure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said: Yeah, I have the same feeling... But Edmure and Jeyne wouldn't be w/ the RW hostages, would they? Edmure was to go to CR iirc - can't remember if he's on his way already. Jeyne and her horrific mum are also on their way west. And the RW hostages, when Walder Frey sends them on their way to KL - if he does send them - will travel from the Twins to KL... I agree w/ what you said about Edmure. I think you are right, Edmure and Jeyne are already on the road from Riverrun whereas the bulk of the RW hostages are at the Twins. Do you think there will be two seperate rescue attempts? I said upthread that I think Mormont and Glover are waiting to free the RW hostages for the sake of strengthening the Northern Kingdom. I wonder if an attack on the troop taking Edmure and Jeyne west is more likely to come from Lady Stoneheart and her faction of the BwB - rescuing a widow and one lord seems less pragmatically useful and more likely to be driven by family loyalty or desire for revenge, and LS seems to me motivated by emotions not practicalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, Buried Treasure said: I think you are right, Edmure and Jeyne are already on the road from Riverrun whereas the bulk of the RW hostages are at the Twins. Do you think there will be two seperate rescue attempts? I said upthread that I think Mormont and Glover are waiting to free the RW hostages for the sake of strengthening the Northern Kingdom. There are loads of interesting possibilities here... I can't wait to see what going on w/ Maege and Glover. I keep going back and forth on Maege's whereabouts at present. She could very well still be with Reed, but she could have gone places, even back to BI perhaps. 7 minutes ago, Buried Treasure said: I wonder if an attack on the troop taking Edmure and Jeyne west is more likely to come from Lady Stoneheart and her faction of the BwB - rescuing a widow and one lord seems less pragmatically useful and more likely to be driven by family loyalty or desire for revenge, and LS seems to me motivated by emotions not practicalities. There's also Jaime and Brienne probably getting mixed up in all/some of this too. I hear what you're saying about LSH's main driving force, and I agree. That said, I think it would also be well within the parameters of her mission to kill as many Freys as she can get her hands on. So it seems it will be a choice between saving Jeyne and Edmure or offing as many Freys as possible. Now, is it possible LSH and the BwB can be involved in both? I suppose so, it will depend on the timing for each. It could however become a bit too repetitive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigUpHerBones Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 they are probably laying in wait to see what Stoneheart does next, before riding out with Robbs will. i am sure they have heard the whispers, what they have is too important to risk being caught, especially by someone as vengeful as her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknownfinger Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said: Yeah, I have the same feeling... But Edmure and Jeyne wouldn't be w/ the RW hostages, would they? Edmure was to go to CR iirc - can't remember if he's on his way already. Jeyne and her horrific mum are also on their way west. And the RW hostages, when Walder Frey sends them on their way to KL - if he does send them - will travel from the Twins to KL... I agree w/ what you said about Edmure. Forley Prester was charged by Jaime to bring Roslyn, Edmure and Jeyne west. Not sure about the rest of the RW prisoners tbh but Jeyne and Edmure should be in the same caravan...Jaime also tells him to kill the prisoners if they try to escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylla Manderly Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Unknownfinger said: Forley Prester was charged by Jaime to bring Roslyn, Edmure and Jeyne west. Not sure about the rest of the RW prisoners tbh but Jeyne and Edmure should be in the same caravan...Jaime also tells him to kill the prisoners if they try to escape. The other prisoners are at the Twins. There was a order that they should be brought to Kings Landing. Edmure and Jeyne were at Riverrun. They are on the way to Casterly Rock. So it is very unlikely they are in the same caravan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknownfinger Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Wylla Manderly said: The other prisoners are at the Twins. There was a order that they should be brought to Kings Landing. Edmure and Jeyne were at Riverrun. They are on the way to Casterly Rock. So it is very unlikely they are in the same caravan. Thanks! The confusion was my doing I should have specified Jeyne and Edmure rather then "RW prisoners" in general....oh and Wylla Manderly rocks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylla Manderly Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, Unknownfinger said: Thanks! The confusion was my doing I should have specified Jeyne and Edmure rather then "RW prisoners" in general....oh and Wylla Manderly rocks! I often get confused too. It is really good to read the boards. And Wylla Manderly is great. I was really happy that the username was still available when I registered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 30 minutes ago, DigUpHerBones said: they are probably laying in wait to see what Stoneheart does next, before riding out with Robbs will. i am sure they have heard the whispers, what they have is too important to risk being caught, especially by someone as vengeful as her. It's not a certainty that Maege and/or Glover have Robb's will. Maybe they do, maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylla Manderly Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: It's not a certainty that Maege and/or Glover have Robb's will. Maybe they do, maybe not. Yeah, it was only said, that they should bring orders and plans regarding the attack on Moat Cailin to Greywater Watch. Though I think it probable that they have the will. And regarding the topic I think it very likely that Maege and Glover are at Greywater Watch and plotting something with Howland. But wasn't there in some Jaime chapter in Feast a hint that the Brotherhood without Banners are in contact with Greywater Watch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, Wylla Manderly said: Yeah, it was only said, that they should bring orders and plans regarding the attack on Moat Cailin to Greywater Watch. Though I think it probable that they have the will. And regarding the topic I think it very likely that Maege and Glover are at Greywater Watch and plotting something with Howland. But wasn't there in some Jaime chapter in Feast a hint that the Brotherhood without Banners are in contact with Greywater Watch? I agree, it is likely that either Maege or Glover have Robb's will... but we can't at this point be 100% sure. It is possible that the will will turn up elsewhere, or even that it was in Maege/Glover possession but isn't anymore. For instance, they could have left GW and left the will with Reed. I don't remember any such hint, but that means nothing. We know there is a member of the BwB presently at Riverrun, but I don't recall any mention of GW or Reed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylla Manderly Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said: I agree, it is likely that either Maege or Glover have Robb's will... but we can't at this point be 100% sure. It is possible that the will will turn up elsewhere, or even that it was in Maege/Glover possession but isn't anymore. For instance, they could have left GW and left the will with Reed. I don't remember any such hint, but that means nothing. We know there is a member of the BwB presently at Riverrun, but I don't recall any mention of GW or Reed... Oh, I agree with you on the first part. It is just a hunch on my part that they are at Greywaters Watch and have the will. But it's not certain. And thanks regarding the hint, I think I have to check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, Wylla Manderly said: Oh, I agree with you on the first part. It is just a hunch on my part that they are at Greywaters Watch and have the will. But it's not certain. And thanks regarding the hint, I think I have to check it out. Let us know if you find anything, you've piqued my curiosity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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