[Spoilers] EP701

[wolfsbae]

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Edited July 19, 2017 by S. OF HOUSE STARK

[Morgana Lannister]

On 7/17/2017 at 2:24 AM, Nymeria Stone said:

But she did have a point, and Jon handled the situation quite poorly

I have only watched the episode once so far but I think they both had good points to be honest, and yes, definitely LF "profits" from any tension between them ...  The only time I have had the time to watch so far was in London in a night club with Kristian lol (Hodor) and it was awesome! despite a few technical problems with the sound lol

 

Edited July 19, 2017 by Morgana Lannister

[Morgana Lannister]

On 7/17/2017 at 2:26 AM, Raksha 2014 said:

Did Cersei invite Euron?  Didn't she learn anything after empowering the Faith?

lol, should have done, I wonder if the gift is that "horn"... that could actually tally with some of the spoilers that were around.... (not especifically but I could see this panning out)...

[wolfsbae]

On 18/07/2017 at 8:44 AM, Ygrain said:

I don't follow all the theories these days much, either, but I have always considered Jaime a hot candidate, especially with Cersei's growing fascination with wildfire and generally becoming more and more like Aerys. I'm not letting Tyrion completely off the hook yet - self-fulfilling prophecy, an enemy of her own creation - but her relationship with Jaime has gone very sour and that mention that they are going to leave the world together as they entered it, IMHO, doesn't bode well. Something like, she sets KL on fire, he strangles her and then burns with her :-(

But she pretty much did set Kings Landing on fire, in a manner of speaking. She certainly decimated an important chunk of it.

I absolutely want Jaime to be the Valonqar, but I’m struggling to determine his breaking point. Cersei has wandered extremely far down the road of madness at this point and the most he can muster is a furrowed brow and a few concerned glances in her direction.

I am screaming for him to snap. Their last living child is dead because of her and the parallels between Cersei and Aerys are clear to see, but he still stands beside her. I can’t think what more it would take for him to realise that she must be stopped, and that he must be the one to stop her.

Edited July 19, 2017 by S. OF HOUSE STARK

[Ygrain]

1 hour ago, S. OF HOUSE STARK said:

But she pretty much did set Kings Landing on fire, in a manner of speaking. She certainly decimated an important chunk of it.

Well, but does Jaime know what exactly happened, and that it was on her order?

1 hour ago, S. OF HOUSE STARK said:

I absolutely want Jaime to be the Valonqar, but I’m struggling to determine his breaking point. Cersei has wandered extremely far down the road of madness at this point and the most he can muster is a furrowed brow and a few concerned glances in her direction.

I am screaming for him to snap. Their last living child is dead because of her and the parallels between Cersei and Aerys are clear to see, but he still stands beside her. I can’t think what more it would take for him to realise that she must be stopped, and that he must be the one to stop her.

I agree that the parallels are clear - for an outsider. Perhaps for one infatuated with Cersei most of his life, not so much. It reminds me what JonCon said about Rhaegar and Aerys' madness "even Rhaegar saw it in the end". People tend to be in denial over their family.

[Alia of the knife]

1 hour ago, Ygrain said:

Well, but does Jaime know what exactly happened, and that it was on her order?

I agree that the parallels are clear - for an outsider. Perhaps for one infatuated with Cersei most of his life, not so much. It reminds me what JonCon said about Rhaegar and Aerys' madness "even Rhaegar saw it in the end". People tend to be in denial over their family.

Agree with this. 

[Alia of the knife]

I am 99.5% sure it was Jorah in that cell at the Citadel.

BUT, how possible is it, it's not?

I only ask because the first thing my husband and I thought when we saw the hand was that it looked burned, as well as the fact he could actually move his fingers, (this disease turns one into stone, does it not)?

We actually thought he could have been someone from Sommerhall since that was the last notorious fire.

https://youtu.be/8HZLVBKPWAs

[Morgana Lannister]

On 7/17/2017 at 3:47 AM, tmug said:

Clegane shouldve burned the farmer and little girl. They will be raised as wights to kill him before its over lol

that is the scene that nearly got me to tears lol  Sandor is good overall, as much as anyone can be in GOTs lol but hell, it was badly done (on his part) and it was painful to see... for me..

[Morgana Lannister]

On 7/17/2017 at 2:31 AM, Raksha 2014 said:

If Jack Sparrow were a teddy bear.  TV-Euron still looks like a sweet ol' teddy bear.  I'm sure he's a terror in battle, and he probably loves to carve up his enemies; but he looks like a teddy bear.

lol and the actor is great but if we thought Joff and Ramsay were cartoon characters this one takes the biscuit! in the books at least!  The gift got to be the horn lol!

 

[Thor Odinson]

13 hours ago, Zumbs said:

If the series so far has shown us anything about how Cersei thinks, it is that she is extremely ruthless and very good at making plans that get her out ahead in the short term. However, she fails to consider her plan beyond her immediate objective, often causing her to land in bigger problems than before. So, yeah, even if she did see the white walkers as a huge problem (she does not even accept that they exist), she would still be likely to try to crush Jon and the North while he was fighting the white walkers.

Yep. I suspect that even when she comes to believe that the threat of the White Walkers is real, she'll still do what she can to double cross the North so that Jon and all his people are killed by the White Walkers, believing that her forces are capable enough of dealing with the White Walkers afterwards (She does have copious supplies of wildfire, after all, so that may make her supremely confident that the Lannister army can take them. She'll probably be very, very WRONG, but Cersei's never had to be right about something to be confident that she could get away with it).

Quote

I viewed that scene slightly differently. That Jaime and Cersei (correctly IMO) ended up deciding that food triumps all else, so Highgarden would be their first objective. Jon could also hedge his bet by sending a small army, a maybe few hundred men, to Moat Cailing to hold the Neck.

 

The point is that Jon doesn't think Cersei can do anything to him, when she's actively plotting his destruction. They decided on the Tyrells first, but only because beating the Tyrells first would make it easier for them to kill the Starks afterwards. The Starks are still on the chopping block as far as Cersei is concerned, and are still considered threats to be destroyed.

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This would not protect him from the Iron Fleet (but he does not know about that yet), but it would make it extremely hard to march a Lannister army North.

This again underscores Jon's problem, which Sansa keeps pointing out. He continually keeps underestimating Cersei, believing her to be no threat to the North. Cersei, however, is clearly working to overcome any problems she'd have in invading the North, first by acquiring the necessary supplies from Highgarden, and then by acquiring a fleet of a thousand ships so the Lannister armies can bypass Moat Cailin entirely and strike farther North. Jon continues to underestimate Cersei (And has failed to account for the Ironborn entirely), and if he continues to do so it's going to get him and everyone around him killed, just as underestimating Cersei got Ned Stark killed, and failing to account for the Ironborn resulted in the Ironborn taking Winterfell and Moat Cailin behind Robb Stark's lines. That's what Sansa is warning Jon about. He keeps repeating the same mistakes that Ned and Robb have made, and he won't survive those mistakes any better than they did unless he changes course.

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In Jons shoes, however, I would be a lot more troubled by Littlefinger. He is in Winterfell, commanding the army of the Vale. While Littlefinger

may actually have told the truth regarding his infatuation with Sansa, Littlefinger has no commitment at all to Jon. In fact, Jon could be a rival for his goal of the Iron throne. So, I could full well see Littlefinger working with Cersei to crush Jon from the inside.

Littlefinger is definitely a threat. The issue, though, is that Jon needs to account for all the threats facing him and prepare to deal with them accordingly. He can't afford to underestimate a single one of them, because they're all far too dangerous, and any one of them could finish the North for good. He's not only underestimating them, though, he's dismissing real and extremely dangerous threats as non-threats entirely. He just hand waved a potential threat from Cersei as a non-issue when that's clearly not the case, as we were shown in the very next scene that she was actively plotting his destruction, with the only question in her mind being who she should kill first. The White Walkers are a major threat, yes, but if he doesn't factor in the Lannisters and a fleet of a thousand Ironborn ships into his plans, who will almost certainly gum up the works, then he's not going to be able to beat the White Walkers, either.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Thor Odinson

[The Bard of Banefort]

If Cersei isn't killed by one of her brothers, I'm going to assume that Tyrion is the valonqar in the books. Tyrion has been so whitewashed that I can't see D&D having him strangle his sister; but on the contrary, I don't think they'd shy away from having Jaime do it. So if Jaime isn't the one to kill her on the show, I think that will be a pretty strong indicator that he isn't the one to kill her in the books either. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by The Bard of Banefort

[Ice Walker]

10 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

Littlefinger is definitely a threat. The issue, though, is that Jon needs to account for all the threats facing him and prepare to deal with them accordingly. He can't afford to underestimate a single one of them, because they're all far too dangerous, and any one of them could finish the North for good. He's not only underestimating them, though, he's dismissing real and extremely dangerous threats as non-threats entirely. He just hand waved a potential threat from Cersei as a non-issue when that's clearly not the case, as we were shown in the very next scene that she was actively plotting his destruction, with the only question in her mind being who she should kill first. The White Walkers are a major threat, yes, but if he doesn't factor in the Lannisters and a fleet of a thousand Ironborn ships into his plans, who will almost certainly gum up the works, then he's not going to be able to beat the White Walkers, either.

I think that this is where Sansa will step in: to counter Littlefinger's plots. This will be the season where she will come up on her own.(can't believe that I'm repeating this every season)

Spoiler

From the leaks, we also know Lannisters will be defeated by FoF 2.0 and Jaime will retreat to Casterly Rock.

From the trailer, we know the Unsullied are entering Casterly Rock. The Lannisters have a lot to worry about. The North is the last destination that they will have in mind.

[Angel Eyes]

Thoughts:

Well, Cersei is right about one thing: the Sand Snakes are a brood of bitches :). Wonder how Tyrion will react when he learns what Ellaria did to Myrcella.

I hope Sansa gets a hint and works better with Jon. They'll need it.

I'll be honest, I ship Jon and Sansa; not like there's anyone else for Sansa. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Angel Eyes

[Ygrain]

I would love if Sansa's bickering with Jon was merely an act to trap LF into starting some scheming, and then, when there's a proof of his treachery, chopping time!

[The Bard of Banefort]

2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

 

I'll be honest, I ship Jon and Sansa; not like there's anyone else for Sansa. 

I think a lot of Jonsa shippers ship these two because they want Sansa to be in a healthy relationship, and Jon is the only real candidate at this point in the story. 

[Zumbs]

8 hours ago, Thor Odinson said:

The point is that Jon doesn't think Cersei can do anything to him, when she's actively plotting his destruction. They decided on the Tyrells first, but only because beating the Tyrells first would make it easier for them to kill the Starks afterwards.

Ah, ok, I think that I misunderstood your earlier post as Cersei would go for the Starks first. Your logic is sound, and, sadly, I'm afraid you are right. Jon seems incapable of considering other threats than the white walkers.

[Angel Eyes]

3 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think a lot of Jonsa shippers ship these two because they want Sansa to be in a healthy relationship, and Jon is the only real candidate at this point in the story. 

That's exactly why. With the books, I'm a little more open.

[ummester]

4 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think a lot of Jonsa shippers ship these two because they want Sansa to be in a healthy relationship, and Jon is the only real candidate at this point in the story. 

What about Tyrion? Healthiest and most respectful relationship she ever had - and he's not dead yet (more's the pity).

[Angel Eyes]

7 hours ago, Ygrain said:

I would love if Sansa's bickering with Jon was merely an act to trap LF into starting some scheming, and then, when there's a proof of his treachery, chopping time!

That would be really cool.

[The Bard of Banefort]

3 hours ago, ummester said:

What about Tyrion? Healthiest and most respectful relationship she ever had - and he's not dead yet (more's the pity).

Right now Tyrion's thousands of miles away. Should they come face-to-face soon, I'm sure the shipping will start once again.