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In the Inside the Episode, they explain that the Frey cold open wasn't originally planned to be that.....they reshuffled the episode at the last minute to put it at the beginning.  Which WAS a good idea if they'd thought of it earlier.

 

BUT I think that explains the Sam comic relief montage:

Sam's scenes come in two parts, and the second one comes immediately following Sandor's very dark and somber scene, digging a grave for the skeleton of a little girl who died because he robbed her (yikes). 

I think that originally, the Sam shit chores sequence went AFTER the Sandor scenes....but moving the Frey scenes around screwed this up.

But they did the right thing for the wrong reason:  they put the Frey scene first because...cynically and predictably....they wanted to "show off the acting talents" of Bradley.  Give him facetime. Look at his face!

Similarly, they boast about how Daenerys's scenes have no dialogue in them.  That's showing off Emilia Clarke's face!  And yeah, it probably is a good idea to have no dialogue in it for a powerful Daenerys moment....but this isn't a "Daenerys moment" to them, it's an Emilia Clarke moment.

Otherwise, this is easily the strongest premiere they've had since Season Four.

I thought I'd be outraged by the Winterfell scenes but they were broadly tolerable.  All things considered (Sansa isn't a coherent character anymore just shilling the actress, but at least it wasn't particularly bad).  King's Landing and Sandor good, as was Arya.  Oldtown dragged in points but the second half was far better, as was Ebrose. 


.....they abandoned Dragonstone for 3 years after Stannis left, and no one thought to send Lannister troops to take such a strategic location?  EURON passed by it on his way there with his fleet!  Oh, the rage is upon me.....

Actually I'd rate the whole episode a good 8 out of 10.

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43 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

.....they abandoned Dragonstone for 3 years after Stannis left, and no one thought to send Lannister troops to take such a strategic location?  EURON passed by it on his way there with his fleet!  Oh, the rage is upon me.....

I honestly don't get why everyone is so up in arms about this.  Dragonstone is important for three reasons.  Two, Cersei doesn't care about:  obsidian and Targaryen ancestry.  The third is indeed its strategic position in terms of its ability to serve as a base for a naval blockade to the Gullet, and King's Landing.  If you have ships.  If you don't have ships, Dragonstone is just one (albeit exquisite) fortress on a fairly small rock.  There's no reason to care about it.  Even in the books, Cersei only concerns herself with Dragonstone largely as a ploy to goad Loras into a rash attack - and doesn't do anything about it until she has the Redwyne fleet.

Now, one could say that confronted with the same situation, Book Euron would have seized Dragonstone on his way to KL, but that really just seems like nitpicking.  As long as there's a naval confrontation in the next couple episodes, I don't get all the complaining.

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3 hours ago, dmc515 said:

I honestly don't get why everyone is so up in arms about this.  Dragonstone is important for three reasons.  Two, Cersei doesn't care about:  obsidian and Targaryen ancestry.  The third is indeed its strategic position in terms of its ability to serve as a base for a naval blockade to the Gullet, and King's Landing.  If you have ships.  If you don't have ships, Dragonstone is just one (albeit exquisite) fortress on a fairly small rock.  There's no reason to care about it.  Even in the books, Cersei only concerns herself with Dragonstone largely as a ploy to goad Loras into a rash attack - and doesn't do anything about it until she has the Redwyne fleet.

Now, one could say that confronted with the same situation, Book Euron would have seized Dragonstone on his way to KL, but that really just seems like nitpicking.  As long as there's a naval confrontation in the next couple episodes, I don't get all the complaining.

It was probably budgetary but I would like to of seen a Hand full of Baratheon loyalists on Dragonstone. Old men or injured men who were left to hold the castle who then lay down their arms when Daenerys arrives at the gate.

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17 minutes ago, the tower of albion said:

My question. Do you think tv's Beric Dondarrion's story arc might be Books Stannis arc? Or at least indicative of where it might be heading?

Book Stannis' arc is more likely to be show Jon's arc than Beric's. I suspect Beric's is a show-only thing.

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1 hour ago, Mihai Brasoveanu said:

What about the "gift" Euron promises Cersei? I'm putting my money on Dragonbinder.

First thought I had was Tyrion.

Also, when Euron said he wanted to marry the most beautiful Queen in the world, even though Cersie thought it was her, I'm sure he was referring to Dany.

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2 hours ago, Mihai Brasoveanu said:

What about the "gift" Euron promises Cersei? I'm putting my money on Dragonbinder.

I think the gift is Ellaria Sand.Cersei wants Ellaria dead for killing Myrcella.

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Some people have been stating that Jon made the wrong decision at the counsel meeting.  What should he have done instead?  Just curious when I read vague things like this with no followup alternative.

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5 hours ago, RedWeddingCake said:

Some people have been stating that Jon made the wrong decision at the counsel meeting.  What should he have done instead?  Just curious when I read vague things like this with no followup alternative.

I thought they were both right... He's the king so he ended up making the decision. If he went Sansa's way where would he have put those kids?

Edited by King Jon Snow Stark

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14 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

In the Inside the Episode, they explain that the Frey cold open wasn't originally planned to be that.....they reshuffled the episode at the last minute to put it at the beginning.  Which WAS a good idea if they'd thought of it earlier.

It was a good idea regardless of when they thought of it.

 

14 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Similarly, they boast about how Daenerys's scenes have no dialogue in them.  That's showing off Emilia Clarke's face!  And yeah, it probably is a good idea to have no dialogue in it for a powerful Daenerys moment....but this isn't a "Daenerys moment" to them, it's an Emilia Clarke moment.

No, it's a Daenerys moment to them. I don't even know what you mean by this.

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Interesting episode

 

They clearly gave us a hint about the dagger from season 1. There was a good 2-3 second where it was almost focused on. I wonder why? it's probably some sort of key

Clearly, the show writers decided to merge Arya's story line with Ladystone hearts and Manderly's when it came to dealing with the Frey's. I don't think GRRM will give that much "power" to Arya. Mostly because she is not a full faceless assassin, nor are they that good. Let's not forget, if they were that good, Dany would have died in Season 2 or book 2.

I don't know about everyone else, but I HATE the Sansa-Jon tension/rivalry; It does not feel authentic, nor genuine. Sansa's character has taken a huge change; she was never this confrontational. What changed? It's too sudden. Jon's character is also very weird. He suddenly does want to take advice... What changed? She confronts him and then she says, "he is really good leader". She does not offer. She pretends she is smart yet has never made a smart decision.    Does anyone else agree?

 

 

 

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I agree with Jon's decision not to punish the Umber and Karstark children, but Sansa was right about visibly rewarding loyal houses for their fealty. I don't think there was any excuse for the Red Wedding atrocity, but one of the reasons why the Freys were so furious was because they had been loyal to Robb until that point, and instead he married a woman from a family that hadn't been (in the books, the Westerlings were Lannister bannerman). Sansa's probably worried that some of the Northern houses will  start scheming to replace a king whom they feel didn't appreciate him, like the Freys did with Robb. We don't know much about the makings of the Blackfyre Rebellion at this point, but it's implied that this is one of the reasons why so many families backed Daemon instead of Daeron--they all went to war with Dorne under the Targaryen's orders, and then Daeron disregarded their sacrifices when he began embracing the Dornish. 

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9 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I agree with Jon's decision not to punish the Umber and Karstark children, but Sansa was right about visibly rewarding loyal houses for their fealty. I don't think there was any excuse for the Red Wedding atrocity, but one of the reasons why the Freys were so furious was because they had been loyal to Robb until that point, and instead he married a woman from a family that hadn't been (in the books, the Westerlings were Lannister bannerman). Sansa's probably worried that some of the Northern houses will  start scheming to replace a king whom they feel didn't appreciate him, like the Freys did with Robb. We don't know much about the makings of the Blackfyre Rebellion at this point, but it's implied that this is one of the reasons why so many families backed Daemon instead of Daeron--they all went to war with Dorne under the Targaryen's orders, and then Daeron disregarded their sacrifices when he began embracing the Dornish. 

The difference is exactly what Jon said

Who is left to punish? It's not like that 10 year old boy had any say in what the Umbers did. I'm sure the 15 year old girl l had no say in what occurred with the Karstarks. You don't see Arya killing the female Frey family members? It's not justice, that's just being vengeful. 

 

And in regards to Dorne, it makes complete sense. The Targaryens never actually won, nor killed everyone in Dorne. The people whom you fought and died for were alive and the king was acceptable to that Dynasty. 

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10 minutes ago, xjlxking said:

The difference is exactly what Jon said

Who is left to punish? It's not like that 10 year old boy had any say in what the Umbers did. I'm sure the 15 year old girl l had no say in what occurred with the Karstarks. You don't see Arya killing the female Frey family members? It's not justice, that's just being vengeful. 

 

And in regards to Dorne, it makes complete sense. The Targaryens never actually won, nor killed everyone in Dorne. The people whom you fought and died for were alive and the king was acceptable to that Dynasty. 

Well, I'm not saying that I disagree with Jon's decision, only that I understand where Sansa's coming from. Despite the faux Starkbowl hype, she's trying to protect Jon and help him stay afloat. He's focused on the enemy to the North, but she's seeing, to quote Melisandre, the people who "smile when you are looking and sharpen their knives when you turn your back."

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2 hours ago, xjlxking said:

Interesting episode

 

They clearly gave us a hint about the dagger from season 1. There was a good 2-3 second where it was almost focused on. I wonder why? it's probably some sort of key

Clearly, the show writers decided to merge Arya's story line with Ladystone hearts and Manderly's when it came to dealing with the Frey's. I don't think GRRM will give that much "power" to Arya. Mostly because she is not a full faceless assassin, nor are they that good. Let's not forget, if they were that good, Dany would have died in Season 2 or book 2.

I don't know about everyone else, but I HATE the Sansa-Jon tension/rivalry; It does not feel authentic, nor genuine. Sansa's character has taken a huge change; she was never this confrontational. What changed? It's too sudden. Jon's character is also very weird. He suddenly does want to take advice... What changed? She confronts him and then she says, "he is really good leader". She does not offer. She pretends she is smart yet has never made a smart decision.    Does anyone else agree?

 

 

 

The Faceless Men are that good. If they had sent one of the Faceless Men after Dany she would have been as dead as Ned.

What you are referring to in book 2, was when the Sorrowful Man failed to kill Dany with a Manticore. That is an entirely different order of assassin, based out of Qarth. The Faceless Men are based out of Braavos.

 

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2 minutes ago, Ser Snowflake said:

The Faceless Men are that good. If they had sent one of the Faceless Men after Dany she would have been as dead as Ned.

What you are referring to in book 2, was when the Sorrowful Man failed to kill Dany with a Manticore. That is an entirely different order of assassin, based out of Qarth. The Faceless Men are based out of Braavos.

 

AHHH

Okay, that part escaped me when I read the books. 

So it''s definitely more possible. Still, I hope they are not good. You'd think if they were that good, Tywin would use them to kill her

 

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