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Quite a few topics being addressed that I want to briefly touch on a few:

1. Sansa/Jon dispute -- Sansa would have a better point (ignoring morality and only being strategic) if the North were not surrounded on both sides by enemies. Jon needs all people in the North on his side so that they fight against the WW and do not join Cersei in any war she might mount against the North. So I think in this case, Sansa was being short-sighted.

2. Valonqar -- Tyrion is not the valonqar -- in the books or the show. In the books Cersei clearly believes Tyrion is the valonqar so Tyrion must be the red herring. I am fairly confident that Jaime will be the valonqar on both the show and the books.All the clues point in his direction (see threads dedicated to this issue for more details regarding these clues).

3. Jorah in the cell -- I am 100% certain that Jorah is the person is the cell. He is the only person we know who has grayscale. We could see the scales progressing down his arm -- they just have not gotten to his hand yet. And he asked about Dany. I don't think the producers were trying to be subtle. I think they were letting any viewers who have watched past seasons know that Jorah is in that cell. It would be pointless for anyone else to be that person.

The leaks disclosed that Sam helps Jorah to cure his grayscale, so that leak also makes it pretty clear that Jorah is at the Citadel

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On 18/07/2017 at 5:44 PM, olibar said:

Very concerned for Arya now that we know she is heading south instead of north.  I don't think she will find as easy a time with the Lanisters as she did the Freys.  Could she have come all this way only to make a rash decision and be either killed or captured for it?

Arya has a habit of not ending up where she planned to go. Trying to get to Winterfell she ended up at Harrenhal and then Braavos (among other places). Maybe she'll run into The Hound & Beric again.  I'm hoping Gendry ends up with them. They might even tell her Jon and Sansa are at Winterfell, causing her to change course. If Nymeria turns up and hangs out with her it might give away who she is but also remind her of her roots and turn her back to Winterfell. 

I could be wrong though.  It's fun to speculate who she'd disguise herself as in Kingslanding!! 

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15 minutes ago, Lady Fishbiscuit said:

Arya has a habit of not ending up where she planned to go. Trying to get to Winterfell she ended up at Harrenhal and then Braavos (among other places). Maybe she'll run into The Hound & Beric again.  I'm hoping Gendry ends up with them. They might even tell her Jon and Sansa are at Winterfell, causing her to change course. If Nymeria turns up and hangs out with her it might give away who she is but also remind her of her roots and turn her back to Winterfell. 

I could be wrong though.  It's fun to speculate who she'd disguise herself as in Kingslanding!! 

I am pretty sure that Arya ends up at Winterfell and not KL this season.

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18 hours ago, Alia of the knife said:

I am 99.5% sure it was Jorah in that cell at the Citadel.

2 hours ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

 Jorah in the cell -- I am 100% certain that Jorah is the person is the cell. He is the only person we know who has grayscale. We could see the scales progressing down his arm -- they just have not gotten to his hand yet. And he asked about Dany. I don't think the producers were trying to be subtle. I think they were letting any viewers who have watched past seasons know that Jorah is in that cell. It would be pointless for anyone else to be that person.

  Reveal hidden contents

The leaks disclosed that Sam helps Jorah to cure his grayscale, so that leak also makes it pretty clear that Jorah is at the Citadel

 

It's 100% Jorah. There is no mistaking that profile. Or that voice. 

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5 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

Plus, Iain Glen's name appeared in the opening credits.

Yep, that too. The sharp features locked it right down for me. :P

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1 hour ago, S. OF HOUSE STARK said:

It's 100% Jorah. There is no mistaking that profile. Or that voice. 

 

1 hour ago, Dragon in the North said:

Plus, Iain Glen's name appeared in the opening credits.

 

1 hour ago, S. OF HOUSE STARK said:

Yep, that too. The sharp features locked it right down for me. :P

Yes -- thanks for all the above -- and the point about the credits reinforces my point that the producers are not trying to be ambiguous -- they expect everyone to know it is Jorah -- the only secret is how bad he actually will look when we get to see him.

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22 hours ago, Alia of the knife said:

I am 99.5% sure it was Jorah in that cell at the Citadel.

BUT, how possible is it, it's not?

I only ask because the first thing my husband and I thought when we saw the hand was that it looked burned, as well as the fact he could actually move his fingers, (this disease turns one into stone, does it not)?

We actually thought he could have been someone from Sommerhall since that was the last notorious fire.

:dunno:

https://youtu.be/8HZLVBKPWAs

It's definitely him. The profile, the voice and the opening credits as others have mentioned. My thoughts are that his hand looks burned because the maesters are trying to prevent it from spreading. Fire has been used before to prevent the spread of disease or infection.

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On 7/18/2017 at 2:36 AM, ummester said:

So did anyone else think this episode spoiled who was going to strangle Cersie by having her standing on the neck, when Jamie was standing on the fingers? I also noticed a lot of dialogue around cerise about sibling killing.

hahahaha i saw that...and since i believe that it will be jaime who does her in the end... i loved it

On 7/18/2017 at 3:52 AM, Spaßvogel said:

This isn't to the level of a "Rant and rave" but I feel like Cersei shouldn't have nearly the military strength to withstand a siege by any of the factions out there.  With King's Landing in near complete anarchy by now, the sparrows all dead, the gold cloaks decimated, the Tyrells are enemies now, the Freys are dead, the Vale's in the North, the who does she think will back her?  Where is she going to get food?  I feel like the show is going to fudge things to make Cersei more formidable, where every decision she's made has made her own position a house of cards. 

Either way, the season is off to a good start. 

as jaime said...where are our allies

 

sailing in magical ships

:smoking:

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I thought the best scenes were:

(1) Jim Broadbent as the Maester and his dialogue with Sam. Total pro actor and the dog speach was compelling.

(2) Hound, Thoros and Berric scene in its entirety.  All three great actors, and I really find Berric's self doubt about resurrection believeable and endearing.  If the hound becomes the true Warrior of Light of the books cannon, which I believe, it will be IMHO one of the most interesting character arcs in all of storytelling Ive ever seen or read.  I suspect Sansa will have to be sacrificed to make this happen, which i doubt because she is so well loved in the fandom.

Great episode otherwise!

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*Silly Theory* Do we think D&D poss made the Arbor Gold red on purpose? Maybe as a way to display some of Arya's naivety (and the idiocy of the Freys, or their hesitance to ever question their Lord?)? When she drank with the Lannister soldiers after the Big Kill, this might have been her first time really drinking wine. I know in previous episodes, she declined it--- can't recall if the books were the same. She's doing grown-up things, but really still a child in many ways. 

 

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9 hours ago, fire&blood said:

It's definitely him. The profile, the voice and the opening credits as others have mentioned. My thoughts are that his hand looks burned because the maesters are trying to prevent it from spreading. Fire has been used before to prevent the spread of disease or infection.

So, I watch the show with subtitles sometimes, and the line was officially noted as being spoken by "Jorah." Kinda spoiled any mystery, but I can't imagine who else it could be anyways. We aren't getting too many surprises on the show these days... I hope that changes! 

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On 7/20/2017 at 9:24 AM, Lady Fishbiscuit said:

Arya has a habit of not ending up where she planned to go. Trying to get to Winterfell she ended up at Harrenhal and then Braavos (among other places). Maybe she'll run into The Hound & Beric again.  I'm hoping Gendry ends up with them. They might even tell her Jon and Sansa are at Winterfell, causing her to change course. If Nymeria turns up and hangs out with her it might give away who she is but also remind her of her roots and turn her back to Winterfell. 

I could be wrong though.  It's fun to speculate who she'd disguise herself as in Kingslanding!! 

I find it hard to believe that Arya doesn't already know about John and Sansa being back in charge of Winterfell and yet is still choosing to go south for revenge instead.  With how bad things are currently looking for Queen Circe, capturing Arya in a failed assassination attempt would give her leverage and perhaps cause a split between John and Danny (assuming they team up).

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Loved it.

Loved....

- The wonderful cold open. Family kills his own family in his own house, by Faceless Jedi Arya Stark, who tells them why. *This marks the second time a female has worn a male face. Badass.

- Cersei as Lear. Lear's Alzheimer's drove him mad. Cersei's lack of vision has driven hers. The map. I think she's going to be the next/penultimate Big Bad... so Jamie can kill her, so Dany & Jon can save the world. I think I can see it...

Spoiler

Cersei will be Aeyrs on steroids, knowing what's coming she wants to destroy the world, not just KL. 

- I loved Jamie in the Euron scene. I want Euron to be the shortest-lived villain in ASOIAF. I want him to take on Quentyn's storyline. Hilarious and epic. And perfect. Cersei needs to rock the BAD. She deserves it. No reason why a female can't be the biggest in every category at the end of all of this.

- Loved all of the North, except for anyone at this point not seeing the bigger picture - the Army of the DEAD is coming for everyone. Rewarding loyalty? Punishing...anyone who's breathing...? 

- We know they're past The Wall because Sandor saw it. Which means Bran removes magic. 

- Lyanna Mormont needs her own show.

- Loved Dani's arrival. All of it. Including the silence. 

What I don't want to happen: Euron steals a dragon. 

Edited by ShadowKitteh

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3 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said:

I want Euron to be the shortest-lived villain in ASOIAF. I want him to take on Quentyn's storyline. Hilarious and epic. And perfect. 

What I don't want to happen: Euron steals a dragon. 

Yes! :agree:

That would be hilarious!

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On 7/20/2017 at 8:20 PM, rocksniffer said:
On 7/18/2017 at 2:36 AM, ummester said:

So did anyone else think this episode spoiled who was going to strangle Cersie by having her standing on the neck, when Jamie was standing on the fingers? I also noticed a lot of dialogue around cerise about sibling killing.

hahahaha i saw that...and since i believe that it will be jaime who does her in the end... i loved it

as jaime said...where are our allies

 

sailing in magical ships

:smoking:

Chad Summerchild also pointed this out; but then the Night King pointed out he nwas actually standing on the Twins; which didn't phase Chad at all, since Jaime and Cersei are ... twins! "This show is so subtle!"

*wonders if he should link to Preston Jacobs video again, or if twice in the same post (in the poll thread) is enough*

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25 minutes ago, Count Balerion said:

Chad Summerchild also pointed this out; but then the Night King pointed out he nwas actually standing on the Twins; which didn't phase Chad at all, since Jaime and Cersei are ... twins! "This show is so subtle!"

*wonders if he should link to Preston Jacobs video again, or if twice in the same post (in the poll thread) is enough*

I watched a bunch of Preston Jacobs videos recently - mainly his big picture (wolves and robins) series. He has a very interesting take on the ASoIaF saga - and a very pragmatic view of how to assemble the information from books and show. I like his references to the Frost poem.

What I seem to disagree with him on though (and he may well be right with how the saga is going to tie up and my POV biased) is that he thinks the humans of Westeros deserve a second chance, deserve to hope for a better future and make peace with the Others/White Walkers. I think the humans in Westeros have already proven, time and time again, that they are bad for Westeros, so deserve no more chances - but either way, it is a good indication of how the bittersweet ending will play out.

Here is the poem, just because I like it and it may have great clues for the ending of this show:

Some say the world will end in fire, 
Some say in ice. 
From what I’ve tasted of desire 
I hold with those who favor fire. 
But if it had to perish twice, 
I think I know enough of hate 
To say that for destruction ice 
Is also great 
And would suffice.
 
Is it inevitable that the world must end, is the question the poem leaves me with (yes, I know it's actually about desire and hate - so, in other words, is it inevitable that human nature has to lead to it's own destruction)?
Edited by ummester
more stuff

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I've mainly watched his review videos. So far I've only watched a couple of his serious ones: the one about Jon Snow's rigged election and one of the WOW ones, plus a serious Q&A where he among other things argued that magic doesn't exist (which I'm not so sure of). I plan to watch more of the serious stuff between seasons, as a way of avoiding withdrawal symptoms.

I'm inclined to be on the side of the humans, but that could be because I am one, and so are the POV characters. If there were COTW POV, it might look a bit different.

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Haha - looking at the poem just gave me a bizzare idea - what if it's a direct reference to Jon and he will die again at the end of this season and then be resurrected by ice - for if he had to perish twice :D There are rumours he is left alone with the Night's King in the last episode or so.

Oh and Prestons series on Targyrean bloodlines is also very good - I think he cracked that. He may not have all the character motivations perfect but I think he has worked out who can birth dragon eggs and why.

Edited by ummester

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