Jon will get wightified, a theory by Lothar Frey

[867-5309]

On 7/20/2017 at 4:34 PM, Dorian Martell's son said:

Interesting, but I highly doubt it 

He will be resurrected by mel, meets his aunt but she dies in the final battle and he  lives a sad life for hte restof his days

I doubt that.  If Jon comes back to life, it will be as a wight.  He won't be fathering any children.  Jon has a history of betrayal and we know how traitors are punished.  Mirri Maz Duur is an example.  Dany will barbecue Jon for treason is more likely to happen than what you're proposing.  Melt that ice. 

[kissdbyfire]

One thing people don't seem to get is that it doesn't matter whether you like a character or not. Martin doesn't care if people like Jon or hate him. He is writing a story, and to try and figure out a character's fate based on your personal likes and dislikes is just plain dumb and will lead to much disappointment. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

7 hours ago, Midnight Confession said:

I doubt that.  If Jon comes back to life, it will be as a wight.  He won't be fathering any children.  Jon has a history of betrayal and we know how traitors are punished.  Mirri Maz Duur is an example.  Dany will barbecue Jon for treason is more likely to happen than what you're proposing.  Melt that ice. 

Beric came back without begin a wight. And dany won't BBQ her only living relative 

[Roswell]

1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Beric came back without begin a wight. And dany won't BBQ her only living relative 

Beric is a wight. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

21 minutes ago, The Transporter said:

Beric is a wight. 

read the book before you post 

[Annalee]

2 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

read the book before you post 

Transporter is actually correct.  GM himself confirmed in an interview that Beric is a wight brought back by fire. 

Have you been sleeping the last few weeks?  

    It's been discussed here and on Youtube. 

 

[Dorian Martell's son]

3 minutes ago, Annalee said:

Transporter is actually correct.  GM himself confirmed in an interview that Beric is a wight brought back by fire. 

Have you been sleeping the last few weeks?  

    It's been discussed here and on Youtube. 

 

I don't watch fan videos on youtube. They are usually drivel and a waste of time.  Besides the two are fundamentally different. Beric does not have pale blue eyes. There is not blood pooling in his extremities. He has his memories, although fading and he can speak, communicate, plan and execute those plans. He has died and been revived numerous times. 

[The Fattest Leech]

11 minutes ago, Annalee said:

Transporter is actually correct.  GM himself confirmed in an interview that Beric is a wight brought back by fire. 

Have you been sleeping the last few weeks?  

    It's been discussed here and on Youtube. 

 

This article again? 

George was asked about the show, literally the question was about "Jon Snow on the show", and he answered a question about he show. I can give you the article if you want where it is not edited out or purposely left out of a theory just to enforce some personal belief. 

[kissdbyfire]

3 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

This article again? 

George was asked about the show, literally the question was about "Jon Snow on the show", and he answered a question about he show. I can give you the article if you want where it is not edited out or purposely left out of a theory just to enforce some personal belief. 

I think some people may be misinterpreting the use of the word 'wight' and just assuming both ice and fire wights are exactly the same. They obviously aren't. The dead, including Beric and LSH, are being reanimated by two different elements (or powers, or gods, or whatever one decides to call it), and it seems to me both the processes and results are slightly - or not so slightly- different. But both ice and fire zombies are wights in the sense that they are supernatural creatures. The problem is when this is twisted and turned onto its head to give "support" to some ideas. 

[The Fattest Leech]

13 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I think some people may be misinterpreting the use of the word 'wight' and just assuming both ice and fire wights are exactly the same. They obviously aren't. The dead, including Beric and LSH, are being reanimated by two different elements (or powers, or gods, or whatever one decides to call it), and it seems to me both the processes and results are slightly - or not so slightly- different. But both ice and fire zombies are wights in the sense that they are supernatural creatures. The problem is when this is twisted and turned onto its head to give "support" to some ideas. 

Yes. Ultimately I also agree with this. Wight seems to be a catch all phrase for any dead human, cat, tree, and Sansa's missing shoe. 

[The Fattest Leech]

17 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I think some people may be misinterpreting the use of the word 'wight' and just assuming both ice and fire wights are exactly the same.

This is also like "warging". Every mind control, body assumption thingy is warging. 

[kissdbyfire]

Just now, The Fattest Leech said:

This is also like "warging". Every mind control, body assumption thingy is warging. 

Exactly!

 

[Makk]

I am quite worried about this. Jon (book Jon at least) is a favorite of mine, I want him living with blood flowing through his veins, and now I am very worried. People may disparage the latest comments as him talking about the show, but I am convinced he was talking about the books.

Quote

 

Did Lady Stoneheart come about because it was hard to say a permanent goodbye to Catelyn?

Yeah, maybe. That may have been part of it. Part of it was also, it’s the dialogue that I was talking about. And here I’ve got to get back to Tolkien again. And I’m going to seem like I’m criticizing him, which I guess I am. It’s always bothered me that Gandalf comes back from the dead. The Red Wedding for me in Lord of the Rings is the mines of Moria, and when Gandalf falls — it’s a devastating moment! I didn’t see it coming at 13 years old, it just totally took me by surprise. Gandalf can’t die! He’s the guy that knows all of the things that are happening! He’s one of the main heroes here! Oh god, what are they going to do without Gandalf? Now it’s just the hobbits?! And Boromir, and Aragorn? Well, maybe Aragorn will do, but it’s just a huge moment. A huge emotional investment.

And then in the next book, he shows up again, and it was six months between the American publications of those books, which seemed like a million years to me. So all that time I thought Gandalf was dead, and now he’s back and now he’s Gandalf the White. And, ehh, he’s more or less the same as always, except he’s more powerful. It always felt a little bit like a cheat to me. And as I got older and considered it more, it also seemed to me that death doesn’t make you more powerful. That’s, in some ways, me talking to Tolkien in the dialogue, saying, “Yeah, if someone comes back from being dead, especially if they suffer a violent, traumatic death, they’re not going to come back as nice as ever." That’s what I was trying to do, and am still trying to do, with the Lady Stoneheart character.

And Jon Snow, too, is drained by the experience of coming back from the dead on the show.

Right. And poor Beric Dondarion who was set up as the foreshadowing of all this, every time he’s a little less Beric. His memories are fading, he’s got all these scars, he’s becoming more and more physically hideous, because he’s not a living human being anymore. His heart isn’t beating, his blood isn’t flowing in his veins, he’s a wight, but a wight animated by fire instead of by ice, now we’re getting back to the whole fire and ice thing.

 

There is no Lady Stoneheart on the show. The only thing Beric is foreshadowing is her and possibly Jon Snow if he is resurrected as a fire Wight. It will sound implausible to me to come out saying all this about Gandalf and then have Jon get straight back up all OK.

[divica]

On ‎25‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 5:02 AM, Makk said:

I am quite worried about this. Jon (book Jon at least) is a favorite of mine, I want him living with blood flowing through his veins, and now I am very worried. People may disparage the latest comments as him talking about the show, but I am convinced he was talking about the books.

There is no Lady Stoneheart on the show. The only thing Beric is foreshadowing is her and possibly Jon Snow if he is resurrected as a fire Wight. It will sound implausible to me to come out saying all this about Gandalf and then have Jon get straight back up all OK.

The thing with book jon is that there are a thousand ways for him to get back.

First, we don t know if he dies or if he stays very close to dieing with his body being slowly treated in a cold place.

Then he won t lose part of his soul/memories because if he dies he will go into ghost, so at most he will merge a little with ghost.

And even if mel is the major responsable for bringing him back there will be ice magic involved making it something unique. I mean, if mel heals his body and he wargs from ghost into his own body is he a fire wight? I don t think so because it isn t a ressurection, it is only phisical healing. When jon wargs back, as his body is healed there is no reason for his body to not behave as it did before...

So if jon's body dies, he wargs into ghost, mel heals his body, he wargs back into his body has jon really died?

And I don t believe jon will die because in her vision mel saw jon changing between wolf and man. So I think he will stay alive but very weak and sleeping a lot of time. During his sleep he will warg ghost and walk around and bran will send him importante visions/teach about warging.

[Makk]

13 minutes ago, divica said:

The thing with book jon is that there are a thousand ways for him to get back.

First, we don t know if he dies or if he stays very close to dieing with his body being slowly treated in a cold place.

Then he won t lose part of his soul/memories because if he dies he will go into ghost, so at most he will merge a little with ghost.

And even if mel is the major responsable for bringing him back there will be ice magic involved making it something unique. I mean, if mel heals his body and he wargs from ghost into his own body is he a fire wight? I don t think so because it isn t a ressurection, it is only phisical healing. When jon wargs back, as his body is healed there is no reason for his body to not behave as it did before...

So if jon's body dies, he wargs into ghost, mel heals his body, he wargs back into his body has jon really died?

And I don t believe jon will die because in her vision mel saw jon changing between wolf and man. So I think he will stay alive but very weak and sleeping a lot of time. During his sleep he will warg ghost and walk around and bran will send him importante visions/teach about warging.

I think his body is dead, his "soul" or whatever in Ghost. No matter how many times I read someones suggestion that he is merely badly injured, and no matter how much I want to believe, I just can't read the last scene that way. I think Lady Stoneheart's purpose is to resurrect him, but these latest comments about no blood flowing through the veins worries me. I can't see how warging into Ghost will help that. And his comments about how to do a Gandalf resurrection worry me as well. He said something similar years ago and I just thought he would come back more aggressive and wolflike from spending time in Ghost. Even if his body was just badly injured, that would be the same kind of writing as Tolkien did to Gandalf. Now I am a lot more worried.

[divica]

1 minute ago, Makk said:

I think his body is dead, his "soul" or whatever in Ghost. No matter how many times I read someones suggestion that he is merely badly injured, and no matter how much I want to believe, I just can't read the last scene that way. I think Lady Stoneheart's purpose is to resurrect him, but these latest comments about no blood flowing through the veins worries me. I can't see how warging into Ghost will help that. And his comments about how to do a Gandalf resurrection worry me as well. He said something similar years ago and I just thought he would come back more aggressive and wolflike from spending time in Ghost. Even if his body was just badly injured, that would be the same kind of writing as Tolkien did to Gandalf. Now I am a lot more worried.

It depends on how the red priests heal. Because healing and ressurecting are 2 diferent things. The part about the blood not flowing can be because the red preists cant quick start the body while if jon wargs back he may be able...

And jon might be alive because the ice/snow might cauterize his wounds (the smoking thing he sees before fainting) and val is very close... and mel isn t far off...

And if jon's body dies but her wargs into ghost and then wargs back it isn t ressurecting... grrm problem with gandalf can be avoided that way...

And with mel in the Wall and shireen to burn it would be too weird to wait for LS...

[Makk]

11 minutes ago, divica said:

It depends on how the red priests heal. Because healing and ressurecting are 2 diferent things. The part about the blood not flowing can be because the red preists cant quick start the body while if jon wargs back he may be able...

And jon might be alive because the ice/snow might cauterize his wounds (the smoking thing he sees before fainting) and val is very close... and mel isn t far off...

And if jon's body dies but her wargs into ghost and then wargs back it isn t ressurecting... grrm problem with gandalf can be avoided that way...

And with mel in the Wall and shireen to burn it would be too weird to wait for LS...

We don't know that Mel can bring anyone to life. I am just basing this on how GRRM likes to write in terms of conflict of the human heart. Catelyn will be torn between knowing Arya is alive and holding out for her or obeying Robb's last edict before he died and crowning Jon Snow the boy she loathed. Note that the last Jaime chapter happens a long time before the last Jon chapter in terms of the timeline, she could effectively be at the wall with crown in hand at any time.

[divica]

1 minute ago, Makk said:

We don't know that Mel can bring anyone to life. I am just basing this on how GRRM likes to write in terms of conflict of the human heart. Catelyn will be torn between knowing Arya is alive and holding out for her or obeying Robb's last edict before he died and crowning Jon Snow the boy she loathed. Note that the last Jaime chapter happens a long time before the last Jon chapter in terms of the timeline, she could effectively be at the wall with crown in hand at any time.

But when she gets there the farya will also already be at the Wall... She left before theon 1 so she must be close. And I don t know if it is better for LS to give life to jon or to make him accept robb's will and go take the north. It is what she always feared! And she being the one that puts jon on that path would be interesting. And LS would need to have a lenghty conversation with jon to make him leave the NW and go be king in the north...

[Makk]

5 minutes ago, divica said:

But when she gets there the farya will also already be at the Wall... She left before theon 1 so she must be close. And I don t know if it is better for LS to give life to jon or to make him accept robb's will and go take the north. It is what she always feared! And she being the one that puts jon on that path would be interesting. And LS would need to have a lenghty conversation with jon to make him leave the NW and go be king in the north...

I think if she gave up her own life for him, and left him with Robb's will, it would completely convince him. He was set on marching south anyway. I see Jaime as the exchange to get out of his nightswatch vows.

[divica]

2 minutes ago, Makk said:

I think if she gave up her own life for him, and left him with Robb's will, it would completely convince him. He was set on marching south anyway. I see Jaime as the exchange to get out of his nightswatch vows.

I sometimes think he might just completly change the watch rules. I mean there are so very few NW remaining that the organization needs a huge boost and very few people would want to join it...

Then with the wildlings south of the Wall and with a possible breach in the Wall the NW becomes even more useless. It seems pretty clear that somethings need to drastically change...