Jon will get wightified, a theory by Lothar Frey

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 7/23/2017 at 7:09 PM, Annalee said:

Transporter is actually correct.  GM himself confirmed in an interview that Beric is a wight brought back by fire. 

Have you been sleeping the last few weeks?  

    It's been discussed here and on Youtube. 

 

Correct.  Jon in the books can only come back as a wight or he can live on within his dog. 

[Dragonsbone]

Last week I was banned for one week because I put the second answer of George here  (without the part about Jon) and one Moderator said I was spoiling show stuff here (which I wasn't). And now it is OK to discuss his whole interview here? That seems fair 

[Wm Portnoy]

This is one of Bran's dreams from aGoT:

"Finally he looked north.  He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him."

1. pale, hard skin
2. fading memory
3. no warmth
4. "sleeping"

Those are clues that he is a wight.  I will admit that clues are not proof but GM never gives us outright proof.  I will support Lothar's proposal for now.

[Roswell]

On 7/23/2017 at 7:09 PM, Annalee said:

Transporter is actually correct.  GM himself confirmed in an interview that Beric is a wight brought back by fire. 

Have you been sleeping the last few weeks?    He's been in a coma for the last few weeks! 

    It's been discussed here and on Youtube. 

 

 

On 7/23/2017 at 7:17 PM, Dorian Martell's son said:

I don't watch fan videos on youtube. They are usually drivel and a waste of time.  Besides the two are fundamentally different. Beric does not have pale blue eyes. There is not blood pooling in his extremities. He has his memories, although fading and he can speak, communicate, plan and execute those plans. He has died and been revived numerous times. 

Maybe you should.  Your knowledge is out dated.

[Roswell]

3 hours ago, Wm Portnoy said:

This is one of Bran's dreams from aGoT:

"Finally he looked north.  He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him."

1. pale, hard skin
2. fading memory
3. no warmth
4. "sleeping"

Those are clues that he is a wight.  I will admit that clues are not proof but GM never gives us outright proof.  I will support Lothar's proposal for now.

It is true that GRRM doesn't give explicit clues.  All that being said, I think the OP, Lothar?, may be right on many of his theories.

[The Fattest Leech]

On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 7:17 PM, Dorian Martell's son said:

I don't watch fan videos on youtube. They are usually drivel and a waste of time.

Agreed. The video people are no better or worse at theory crafting than anyone else. They just have more time to make videos rather than suffer here with us plebes. 

And this video is an especial waste of time because the video guy is conveniently side stepping the progression of the actual interview where George goes from talking about the books, to talking about the show. It is show only info. But it's on YouTube, so it must be right? Right?

On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 7:17 PM, Dorian Martell's son said:

Besides the two are fundamentally different. Beric does not have pale blue eyes. There is not blood pooling in his extremities. He has his memories, although fading and he can speak, communicate, plan and execute those plans. He has died and been revived numerous times. 

Yup. Until we get new book information, this still holds true. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

An ap=[

3 hours ago, The Transporter said:

Maybe you should.  Your knowledge is out dated.

Not at all. book text is the only truth in the series. SSMs are cute but this  one directly contradicts text that survived numerous revisions. 

3 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Yup. Until we get new book information, this still holds true. 

exactly 

[300 H&H Magnum]

On 7/17/2017 at 6:15 AM, Adam Yozza said:

We don't know who is who yet. And yeah, they might well rebel against the Iron Throne again. That's not the same as siding with the Others. Everything about Jon's story leads to him fighting against the wights.

'Jon puts family first ahead of everybody else and everything' No, he actually doesn't. He could have kept riding back in Game and gone to join Robb. But he didn't.  He ultimately chose to stay at the Wall and stay true to his vows. After he heard of the Red Wedding, he didn't ride south to avenge his brother. He wanted to, but he didn't. When he heard Arya was being married to Ramsay, he did nothing until he heard she was trying to escape anyway, and even then all he did was send a somewhat trusted ally to guide her to Castle Black.

Actually, Jon already deserted.  Sam and his friends dragged him back.  And that business with Ramsay?  It was more than sending an escort to get her to Castle Black.  Jon was going to take Arya from Ramsay.  That is an act of war.  Jon sent Mance to get Arya, wherever she may be and to do whatever they have to do. 

'Just as he let a very dangerous element like Mance loose on the north to help Arya he will not hesitate to loose an army of the dead on the north to serve the interest of the Starks if it came down to him having to make a choice' That's one of the most stupid statements I've ever heard. Sending Mance and a group of wildlings to rescue ones fleeing sister is one thing, unleashing the Others on the North is entirely another. Mance has sworn to fight for Jon and is trusted; on the flip side Jon has been doing everything in his power to stop the wights.  So no, he would not onlu hesitate about such a thing, he would decide not to do it; if he even considers it, which I doubt.

Actually, Jon had not been doing everything in his power.  He didn't try hard enough to reach out to the Boltons and the lords of the north.  Hell, he didn't even try hard enough to convince his own men. 

 

[300 H&H Magnum]

On 7/29/2017 at 9:43 AM, Wm Portnoy said:

This is one of Bran's dreams from aGoT:

"Finally he looked north.  He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him."

1. pale, hard skin
2. fading memory
3. no warmth
4. "sleeping"

Those are clues that he is a wight.  I will admit that clues are not proof but GM never gives us outright proof.  I will support Lothar's proposal for now.

Very good clues, if I might add. 

[Aline de Gavrillac]

On 7/18/2017 at 8:34 PM, Ian Dunross said:

I like the hive mind theory to explain how the nk directs his wights.  It also makes sense that the nk was a Stark.  He must have been a powerful warg before his conversion. 

The N/K is show-only creation.  The book N/K was not controlling wights he was more of a traitor than one of the Others.  He chose their side over a woman and betrayed his duties to the Wall.  Yeah he was a Stark but he never controlled the wights.  Nor do we even know if he was a warg-skinchanging freak.  He was just a Stark who betrayed the Wall for love.  There is a parallel for sure.

[Armand Gargalen]

On 7/21/2017 at 11:39 AM, kissdbyfire said:

I can't understand how people can entertain the idea that Jon won't come back one way or another, given he previous 5 books and the story being told. It's a massive reading comprehension fail, and it gets to the point of being funny even. 

I think most people never entertained the idea that Ned Stark would be unexpectedly beheaded instead of being sent to the Wall to fight the evil threat from the North side by side with his bastard son.

They neither entertained the idea that Robb´s successful war against the evil Lannisters would end in a sudden bloodbath at the Redding Wedding.

Yes, there were clues about it happening in the text, and in hindsight they could be spotted, but hindsight is 20/20. 

So I would not be so surprised if Jon never gets resurrected or becomes an inhuman monster. Not that I am saying it will happen, either, just keeping my mind open.

[kissdbyfire]

5 minutes ago, Armand Gargalen said:

I think most people never entertained the idea that Ned Stark would be unexpectedly beheaded instead of being sent to the Wall to fight the evil threat from the North side by side with his bastard son.

They neither entertained the idea that Robb´s successful war against the evil Lannisters would end in a sudden bloodbath at the Redding Wedding.

Yes, there were clues about it happening in the text, and in hindsight they could be spotted, but hindsight is 20/20. 

So I would not be so surprised if Jon never gets resurrected or becomes an inhuman monster. Not that I am saying it will happen, either, just keeping my mind open.

As you said yourself, Ned's death and the RW were both foreshadowed and hinted at. In Jon's case it's the exact opposite; not only there's no foreshadowing or hints pointing to his death (at this point in the story), but loads about his role in events to come.

[Clegane'sPup]

1 hour ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

The N/K is show-only creation.  The book N/K was not controlling wights he was more of a traitor than one of the Others.

I agree with the first statement The second I gotta let float. The rest of my post has nuttin' to do with your remarks.

In the ASOIAF books there is a Night's King legend.

The show uses the Night King to replace the "Great Other" which is Mel's R'hllor's nemesis.

[The Commentator]

On 8/6/2017 at 7:10 PM, Aline de Gavrillac said:

The N/K is show-only creation.  The book N/K was not controlling wights he was more of a traitor than one of the Others.  He chose their side over a woman and betrayed his duties to the Wall.  Yeah he was a Stark but he never controlled the wights.  Nor do we even know if he was a warg-skinchanging freak.  He was just a Stark who betrayed the Wall for love.  There is a parallel for sure.

The NK was a lord commander, a Stark.  He saw and fell head over heels for a woman.  The woman was probably a female white walker.  Their queen.  The NK betrayed the realm when he styled him a king and took control of the Nightfort.  He and his wife started offering human sacrifices to the gods.  

The NK himself was not a white walker.  He was a Stark who may have had warging powers.   The op's original idea aside, I can see Jon taking on this role in the present story.

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 7/19/2017 at 9:35 PM, E.S. Dinah said:

1. Weymar Royce.  From the first few pages of the novel we were shown the white walkers killing and resurrecting the dead. 
2. The wights that attacked Jeor Mormont. 

There is support in the text for the white walker's ability to raise the dead.  Evidence, actually.  And it is strong.

There is not a shred of evidence in the  text to support that Mellissandre can resurrect anybody or anything. 

I suspect there is no such thing as bringing the dead back to life.  Beric and Stoneheart are the walking dead.  It's only a matter of time before they rot away.  It should be the same for Jon when he comes back.  I would feel cheated if Jon comes back stronger or even normal.  

[The Commentator]

On 8/13/2017 at 8:40 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

I suspect there is no such thing as bringing the dead back to life.  Beric and Stoneheart are the walking dead.  It's only a matter of time before they rot away.  It should be the same for Jon when he comes back.  I would feel cheated if Jon comes back stronger or even normal.  

The dead coming back to normal life is cheating, and cheap.  I don't think we will see that in the books.  The dead can come back as a wight but they will have lost part of themselves and are slowly rotting away.  Sub-freezing temperatures can help prolong the corpse and delay decomposition.  Which is why someone like Coldhands can remain active for so long.  

[Shi Qiang]

On 7/18/2017 at 8:48 PM, Ian Dunross said:

Oh I don't know about that.  Some of the op's thoughts are going to happen.  The nk can resurrect and he's coming.  Can you see why he is the leading candidate to awaken Jon?  Some people are hoping it's Mellisandre but we have never seen her do this.  We have seen the ww do this.

The Others are in the neighborhood and they have been know to do this.  Mel doesn't have this skill.  I can agree that if bonehead Jon comes back it will be as an ice wight.  I would rather him either stay dead or live on within Ghosts though.  That way we will never have to put up with reading another Jon chapter again.  I don't want Jon to come back as a POV character.

[Romaine3]

@Lord Lothar Frey

The entire OP reeks of Wight Privilege. Only an Other would demand the living sacrifice themselves to maintain peace.

[kissdbyfire]

Just now, Romaine3 said:

@Lord Lothar Frey

The entire OP reeks of Wight Privilege. Only an Other would demand the living sacrifice themselves to maintain peace.

Maybe you don't know this yet, but every week or so a new 'Jon hate' thread pops up. They're all alike, so it ends up feeling like it's just the one thread.

 

[Romaine3]

@kissdbyfire I go through periods where I'm not always paying attention to the forum like I should. People are always hating on the good characters in the novels though. I really wanted to say Wight privilege though, it's funny!

I do have a premonition that Winds is on its way sooner rather than later. I guess that is what sparked my decision to hop back into the forum discussions.