teemo Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 To be honest, I think it was a mistake to try to "humanize" Ramsay at all. There are some characters that are just better as more straight-up sociopathic irremediable villains and Ramsay is one of them. Watching him dealing with a "girlfriend" felt ridiculous to me. I mean, we *are* dealing with medieval type power figures....some of these people are absolutely fucking insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Walker Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Ser Edmure Tully said: I was thinking more of when she told him not to fall for Ramsay's traps and then he concocted the brilliant, on-the-go battle plan of "charge". I mean yeah her advice was pretty vague, but he did go against it by doing the most literally obvious thing in the world. This just shows Jon is dumb at strategy. It does not show Sansa is smarter and it certainly does not justify the need to listen to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 13 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said: The Hound scenes weren't just humorous, they were human. It shows (rather than tells) how the Hound has changed as a character, his reluctance to enter the house, to the scene where he buries the dead, shows us he's not the same person he was before, without him or anyone saying it, we see it, we feel it. That's what this show has lacked,for example, they chould have shown us how Jon is good at being King rather than have Sansa tell us in the that cringeworthy scene. Yeah, I liked the way he has evolved on a personal level. He even carries himself differently. And yet, there are still those touches that make you know this is the same guy, his unique personality is there. Now contrast that with Jaime, who we just can't understand, because we saw a different side of him before, and he's gone backwards, and it's just an unanswerable puzzle that they handwave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Walker Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said: But she did no bidding? She didn't say "do this and I might agree", she's just said "no"? Is she counting on Euron being a mindreader and knows exactly what she wants? Nothing like that at all. I noticed Cersei's reaction after Euron's promise to bring her a present. That's how I see D&D will write the rest of the plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredwin Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, Ice Walker said: Who is going to execute whom here? There was a lot of talk from Sansa about who are traitors to them and why. Seems to me that intentionally withholding valuable information from your Commander/King/Whomever while preparing for a major battle should be tantamount to treason. Especially when said information involves reinforcements or even worse in this case, the location of a nearby potentially hostile third party. Sansa could have easily delivered victory to Littlefinger even more directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Edmure Tully Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Ice Walker said: This just shows Jon is dumb at strategy. It does not show Sansa is smarter and it certainly does not justify the need to listen to her. Yeaaaah okay, I never said she was smarter. All I said was that she told Jon not to fall into a trap and the first thing Jon did was dive headfirst into it. I'm not saying that Jon or Sansa are particularly good at communicating, but just that Jon should recognise the fact that she may have something to offer based on her unique experiences. He ignored her unique experience of Ramsay's sadism (vague though the warning was) and now he's ignoring her experience in terms of politics (I think that's what she's meant have anyway, the show doesn't convey things very well). I'm just not entirely sure why a leader, who's previous experiences at leadership consisted of being stabbed, losing most of his army through his own stupidity and being yelled at by small children would tell anyone with even a skerrick of experience to go to take a hike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: Yeah, I liked the way he has evolved on a personal level. He even carries himself differently. And yet, there are still those touches that make you know this is the same guy, his unique personality is there. Now contrast that with Jaime, who we just can't understand, because we saw a different side of him before, and he's gone backwards, and it's just an unanswerable puzzle that they handwave. Jaime's character has been completely sacrificed for so they can have their Lena Headey version of Cersei. He's not a character at this point but an accessory that hangs around Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 which is just sad because jaime is one of the most interesting characters in the books but, you know, what's character development? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Walker Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Just now, Ser Edmure Tully said: I'm not saying that Jon or Sansa are particularly good at communicating, but just that Jon should recognise the fact that she may have something to offer based on her unique experiences. He ignored her unique experience of Ramsay's sadism (vague though the warning was) and now he's ignoring her experience in terms of politics (I think that's what she's meant have anyway, the show doesn't convey things very well). What experience does she have in politics? Here is the scenario: Robb rebels against Joffrey. Battle of Oxcross happens. Joffrey humiliates & punishes Sansa in front of the entire court. She literally begs that she had no part in whatever her traitor brother had done. Tyrion saves her. Cut to now. Harold Karsark rebels against House Stark because Robb cut off his father's head. Smalljon Umber rebels for whatever reason. Why should Ned Umber and Alys Karstark be punished for their fathers' or brothers' crimes? More importantly, why is Sansa comparing Jon to Joffrey when she is the one who is being "Joffrey"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Nami said: which is just sad because jaime is one of the most interesting characters in the books but, you know, what's character development? That's probably the biggest flaw of the show, they don't value character development. And they are so inconsistent, if they need someone to prop up this or that plot, they just scrap what was done before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Walker Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 11 minutes ago, Fredwin said: There was a lot of talk from Sansa about who are traitors to them and why. Seems to me that intentionally withholding valuable information from your Commander/King/Whomever while preparing for a major battle should be tantamount to treason. Especially when said information involves reinforcements or even worse in this case, the location of a nearby potentially hostile third party. Sansa could have easily delivered victory to Littlefinger even more directly. That's true. Although I doubt Jon will ever hurt Sansa. D&D have been screwing up Sansa's and Jaime's characterizations since Season 4. I'm beginning to hate these two characters on the show because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Gotta say, I think the worst line in the show was during Jaime and Cersei's conversation when Jaime points out there is no dynasty since all their children are dead and Cersei replies (I think) "A dynasty for us, then." Um, that's not a dynasty. Because of exactly what Jaime just said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, Ice Walker said: That's true. Although I doubt Jon will ever hurt Sansa. D&D have been screwing up Sansa's and Jaime's characterizations since Season 4. I'm beginning to hate these two characters on the show because of that. Honestly other than the Hound and BWB I hate just about everyone on the show. That's why the Stark resurgence has meant very little to me, in the books I will probably be brought to tears to see the Direwolf flag flying overn Winterfell again. In the show I couldn't care less, none of the Starks or Northerners are particularly root worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Bean Corbray Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, dmc515 said: Gotta say, I think the worst line in the show was during Jaime and Cersei's conversation when Jaime points out there is no dynasty since all their children are dead and Cersei replies (I think) "A dynasty for us, then." Um, that's not a dynasty. Because of exactly what Jaime just said. Well, it kinda works in the context of Cersei Being Bugfuck Insane And Stupid and just so swept up in finally being queen she doesn't notice/care that she's ruling over ashes (and it'll be short lived anyway). But yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 BTW. This episode bascially proves that all the leaks are true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemo Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 what are some of the other leaks...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Also, how hilarious is that one of the soldiers actually asks Arya if she's old enough to drink. Like drinking age is actually a thing in medieval times. I'm suppose we should be thankful he didn't ask her if she's got a designated driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubicante Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 31 minutes ago, Ice Walker said: This just shows Jon is dumb at strategy. It does not show Sansa is smarter and it certainly does not justify the need to listen to her. Well, you have to give some credit to Jon when it comes to strategy. He could have had all of his food and siege weapons completely destroyed by 20 good men, burned a family member alive to melt a small amount of snow in order to approach Winterfell (despite actually already being at Winterfell), approached Winterfell without any scouts, and then draw his sword and slowly approach thousands of enemy soldiers (all with horses) by foot. In comparison to TV Stannis, Jon was a military genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, teemo said: what are some of the other leaks...? Spoiler Cersei will get pregnant and miscarry, Jon will form an expedition to capture a wight to prove to Cersei that the WWs are real, one of the Dragons will die and turn into an wight dragon, Jon and Dany will have sex and the Wall will come down, among other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Onion Kniggit Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said: Hide contents Cersei will get pregnant and miscarry, Jon will form an expedition to capture a wight to prove to Cersei that the WWs are real, one of the Dragons will die and turn into an wight dragon, Jon and Dany will have sex and the Wall will come down, among other things. Do you have the direct source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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