The Bard of Banefort Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Just now, Cas Stark said: I don't know if you've seen the spoilers or not....so I won't go any further. I have. I'm guessing it foreshadows Cersei trying to double-cross Jon and Dany later on this season. Some less credible leakers have claimed in the past that Cersei will send an assassin after Sansa, but that probably won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej6 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 8 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: She needs therapy. It would be one thing if I thought that Sansa turning bloodthirsty, into a mini Cersei was going to be some type of comment on the nature of trauma....but I know the show well enough to know that they see this as her being a BossAssIndividual and a Badass, not an unhinged destructive nut who has learned all the wrong lessons from the wrongs done to her and who should not be allowed to speak in public after that Fredo performance. Sansa is a plot device D&D uses when they want suspense/drama in the North as their North storyline in the end came down to just Ramsay and his antics. So now all we are left with is split personality Sansa to create tension. And since their writing skills are subpar, everytime they use Sansa in a plot it seems forced and contrived, not to mention the inconsistency in her character and the amnesia she seems to suffer from. Like you said, I too would have liked it better if they followed through with a dark self-centered and ruthless arc for Sansa. But of course they won't. And the worst part is that they expect us to just believe that Sansa has become this smart player, never mind that the character they've penned is anything but. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Just now, The Bear Who Knocks said: I mean we could had useful dialogue like Davos interjecting about their being a trove of Dragonglass on dragonstone that will be useful in the war but nah cant have that need to forced lyanna mormont scene of her talking down a battle hardened lord who takes it for no reason. I found it really odd that Davos didn't utter a word the entire episode. And yeah, he definitely should have known about the dragonglass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 minute ago, teej6 said: Sansa is a plot device D&D uses when they want suspense/drama in the North as their North storyline in the end came down to just Ramsay and his antics. So now all we are left with is split personality Sansa to create tension. And since their writing skills are subpar, everytime they use Sansa in a plot it seems forced and contrived, not to mention the inconsistency in her character and the amnesia she seems to suffer from. Like you said, I too would have liked it better if they followed through with a dark self-centered and ruthless arc for Sansa. But of course they won't. And the worst part is that they expect us to just believe that Sansa has become this smart player, never mind that the character they've penned is anything but. Most people do seem to buy it, Sansa is a player, all of the massive logic fails are hand waved away. It's weird. But then a lot about the show fandom is weird to me since the plotting went completely off the rails in season 5. She is definitely split personality Sansa, she can contradict herself in a single scene, LOL. I do find it kind of sick that they're styling Sansa's hair the same as Cersei...so she isn't now emulating her strong, smart, loyal mother....but that bat sh*t insane criminal Cersei. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark_in_Winterfell Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 3 hours ago, TRILOGY said: It's not so black and white he makes good decisions but she wants him to consider and respect her opinion. Anyway, this entire storyline is pointless. I know, she's a child AND a girl, it's just so unrealistic and ridiculous. Exactly, it is not black and white, how it all plays out with the Northerners. Sansa wants to avoid losing everything again. Sansa has had very little time as an adult free from captivity and abuse. She is trying to protect what she has left, the freedom she has gained. As a character she still isn't fully developed and has a chance to do so now. Who she was before was a survivor in her circumstances, the pretty little bird who sang pretty little songs. She has learned by watching Cercei and may wind up becoming more like her than not. Whatever direction she goes in from here, determines whether she will live past this season. I think the scene was setting the table for further conflict between her and Jon as well as uncertainty about what Sansa will do. I think she will kill Balish very soon. I think Balish's purpose for moving the story is done and he will be exiting stage left soon. If not then they have some other purpose for Balish. It seems like he has hit the limit of his characters potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, teej6 said: Sansa is a plot device D&D uses when they want suspense/drama in the North as their North storyline in the end came down to just Ramsay and his antics. So now all we are left with is split personality Sansa to create tension. And since their writing skills are subpar, everytime they use Sansa in a plot it seems forced and contrived, not to mention the inconsistency in her character and the amnesia she seems to suffer from. Like you said, I too would have liked it better if they followed through with a dark self-centered and ruthless arc for Sansa. But of course they won't. And the worst part is that they expect us to just believe that Sansa has become this smart player, never mind that the character they've penned is anything but. I think one of the reasons why Sansa is such a divisive character is because of how poorly D&D have written her throughout the seasons. Her characterization is incredibly inconsistent, which is why it's so hard to understand her motives at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej6 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 57 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: It was a very poorly constructed segment. Jon does listen to others, he always has. But, contradicting him on issues of loyalty in a public setting like that was absolutely undermining him, just as he said it was. She disagrees w/him, then berates him, then compares him to Joff, then says he's 'really good' at being a leader....but he has to be smarter than her dead father and brother. I guess it escaped her notice that a lot of ruthless people have also been betrayed and are dead. Yeah in one breath she compares Jon to Joffrey and then calls him a good ruler. That's smart Sansa manipulating poor dumb Jon. She riles him up and then praises his leadership skills. Then again she goes back to saying he shouldn't be stupid. Her calling Ned stupid is the most annoying part of that entire conversation. Ned wasn't stupid. He ruled the North well for a long time and was beloved by his vassals. He just wasn't cut out for the backstabbing Southron politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 IDK where they are going with it, but I found it really strange that Sandor, of all people, with his serious aversion to fire, is seeing prophecies in fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Stark_in_Winterfell said: Exactly, it is not black and white, how it all plays out with the Northerners. Sansa wants to avoid losing everything again. Sansa has had very little time as an adult free from captivity and abuse. She is trying to protect what she has left, the freedom she has gained. As a character she still isn't fully developed and has a chance to do so now. Who she was before was a survivor in her circumstances, the pretty little bird who sang pretty little songs. She has learned by watching Cercei and may wind up becoming more like her than not. Whatever direction she goes in from here, determines whether she will live past this season. I think the scene was setting the table for further conflict between her and Jon as well as uncertainty about what Sansa will do. I think she will kill Balish very soon. I think Balish's purpose for moving the story is done and he will be exiting stage left soon. If not then they have some other purpose for Balish. It seems like he has hit the limit of his characters potential. I agree with your analysis. I also think they've pretty much run out of things for LF to do at this point. Hopefully they won't drag out his last leg on the show for the entire season. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I think D&D must have something big planned for Jorah, because otherwise I can't see why they haven't killed him off yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 minute ago, The Bard of Banefort said: I agree with your analysis. I also think they've pretty much run out of things for LF to do at this point. Hopefully they won't drag out his last leg on the show for the entire season. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I think D&D must have something big planned for Jorah, because otherwise I can't see why they haven't killed him off yet. Presumably, he got greyscale for a plot reason larger than just to have the audience feel sort of sad about his condition, he's got to infect someone, something or why bother with all of that set up for greyscale and then he gets cured. My guess is that LF will last until Ep. 5 or 6, if Cersei is lasting until the final season, LF will last through most of this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 minute ago, SerMixalot said: IDK where they are going with it, but I found it really strange that Sandor, of all people, with his serious aversion to fire, is seeing prophecies in fire. It was ludicrous. That and digging a grave in frozen ground (more forgivable than the fire prophecy) were unfortunate black marks in what was by far the best sequence of of the episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 After the dust of season 6 has settled and as we start a new season let's check up on the status of the great houses Starting from the South 1. Dorne-Eliminated to the last drop, except for some bastard daughters 2. Baratheon-Eliminated to the last drop, except for maybe a bastard son 3. Tyrell-Eliminated to the last drop, except for an old lady who is highly incapable of producing heirs 4. Lannisters-Current generation-Dead, Cersei possibly still capable of breeding, Jaime possibly in the Kingsguard, possibly not, honestly can't remember, as if it is important. Stated last night that dynasty ends with Cersei and Jaime. Tyrion, being who he is will probably end up on Iron Throne and will have a perfect child sit at School House Rock 5. Tully-Edmure is missing in action, I THINK he has a child, but who knows at this point 6. Arryn-Brave Ser Robyn alive and kicking, presumably 7. Greyjoy-Kin and Kingslayer Euron rules but at odds with niece and nephew 8. Stark-Gets weird here. Jon, a bastard, nights watch desert, is King of the North? Or just Lord of Winterfell? If KotN is Sansa Lady of Winterfell? Both claims should be bypassed by Bran Targaryen-Dany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoo Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Sansa's carving out her own path. She was sent off to wed, wedded 3 times and all fell through. Didn't work out. She won't let that happen again. Killing of Ramsey was her coming of age. Sansa knows her power stems from the claim to Winterfell and the North. And it does belong to her and not to Jon Snow, until Bran comes back. Then, the resolution will occur. Sansa must marry to get a title. Neither Bran nor Jon will usurp the Arryns in Vale. But Vale is a possibility, so are Riverlands. She's weighing her options with LF because he is seeking the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said: Didn't she say Jon was a good ruler after the Joffrey comment, not before? I think she only mentioned Joffrey to get his attention. Her point was that listening to opposing views is one of the marks of a good ruler. One of the reasons why Stannis is still alive in the books is because he listened to Davos even when he didn't want to (I know, I know, he did it in private). No, she said the "good" at ruling thing before she compared him to Joff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej6 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 53 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: Most people do seem to buy it, Sansa is a player, all of the massive logic fails are hand waved away. It's weird. But then a lot about the show fandom is weird to me since the plotting went completely off the rails in season 5. She is definitely split personality Sansa, she can contradict herself in a single scene, LOL. I do find it kind of sick that they're styling Sansa's hair the same as Cersei...so she isn't now emulating her strong, smart, loyal mother....but that bat sh*t insane criminal Cersei. Sad. You are right, most viewers do see Sansa as a player nevermind the fact that she can't hold the same thought in her head in the same episode. I guess they just take D&D and Sophie Turner's word for it and the inconsistencies in her character arc are, as you said, hand waved away. The viewers of this show will accept just about any illogical plot/character now and call it fantastic writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurid Jester Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 13 hours ago, RetconKillah said: I think the worst part about the episode is that I'll have to go into work and listen to everyone talk about how great the episode was and describe characters instead of remembering their names (a very common thing that happens). This drives me nuts. I have a coworker who is always "my favorite character, the little guy. He didn't talk at all." really? Seven years and you can't be bothered to remember his name? Some favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 6 hours ago, Cas Stark said: LOL, I kind of wondered that myself....is there any reason that Jon has for thinking that there is dragon glass to be mined in the North....and he already knows about Dragonstone.....maybe he's was planning to invade Dragonstone but failed to mention that detail? He says the Maesters need to look for information about dragonglass and where could it be. I don't think there'll be much of it in the North though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Snowflake Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 46 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said: I see your point about Cersei, but I don't think they would have included a conversation about how she is still a threat if it wasn't going to be important later on. Cersei has bigger problems than Sansa at the moment. I suspect that she will be preoccupied with keeping Dany's fine a** off of the Iron Throne. The Lannisters doesn't have the logistics to mount a campaign in the north.....especially with it being winter and all. If I was Jon, I would fortify Moat Caitlin to shore up the southern defense, and concentrate all of my attention on confronting the Night's King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej6 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 26 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said: I agree with your analysis. I also think they've pretty much run out of things for LF to do at this point. Hopefully they won't drag out his last leg on the show for the entire season. They'll stretch out LF's arc till the end of the season to keep the suspense and drama going. If D&D really wanted to show Sansa as a player all they needed to show was her whispering about LF in Yohn Royce's ear. The man would be more than happy to get rid of LF. Instead they have Sansa tell Brienne that LF saved them and they need the Vale army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurid Jester Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 53 minutes ago, SerMixalot said: 1. Dorne-Eliminated to the last drop, except for some bastard daughters 2. Baratheon-Eliminated to the last drop, except for maybe a bastard son 3. Tyrell-Eliminated to the last drop, except for an old lady who is highly incapable of producing heirs 4. Lannisters-Current generation-Dead, Cersei possibly still capable of breeding, Jaime possibly in the Kingsguard, possibly not, honestly can't remember, as if it is important. Stated last night that dynasty ends with Cersei and Jaime. Tyrion, being who he is will probably end up on Iron Throne and will have a perfect child sit at School House Rock The main families of those houses, maybe. The continent of westeros is more than the characters of the show. Those houses have minor houses within them, as well as cadet branches. There are still Lannisters. There are still Baratheons, and definitely still Tyrells. The ones that are left are just the second stringers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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