[Spoilers] Rant and Rave without Repercussion

[Dolorous Gabe]

1 hour ago, Nerevanin said:

- killing Freys was a bit underwhelming and very predictable from the second Walder appears on screen "alive"...

Yep, it was written as if we hadn't seen Walder killed and wouldn't necessarily know what was going on. It was like the reveal was supposed to be this shocking moment. Failure of storytelling.

[TheValonqarThatWasAzorAhai]

Where is Euron's eyepatch?  Is a show only allowed to have one guy wearing an eyepatch at a time?  Also, where is the badass Euron at?  To me he seems like a pop star instead of a heavy metal star.  Berric seems too human still for a man who has been brought back to life multiple times.  How does Cersei know that Dany made Tyrion Hand of the Queen, or that he is even with her?  This is the first time that this was brought up.  In the opener, why is there still a stag at King's Landing?  Shouldn't it be a lion.

One thing I am glad with is that they haven't invented smell-o-vision yet.

[Le Cygne]

On 7/17/2017 at 9:41 AM, Ashes Of Westeros said:

The scenes with the Hound and the BwB was kind of good idea, showing the Hound's rebirth and abandoning  his past attitude. But it left more questions than answers? Why didn't the father and the dughter leave and go South? Why is it important how they died? Why didn't the BwB burn them if they know that thw WW are coming? Since when the Hound can see through fire? He used to be the most down to earth dude in the 7K?

They spent a lot of time on Sandor in the Inside the Episode...

(put this on the other thread)

[divica]

36 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

They could have put that scene into a later episode. If she gets her fleet as far as the waters around Dragonstone there is no way she could not also take them to KL (and if she had done that she could have burned Euron's entire armada at anchor, just as he once did it with the Lannister fleet).

Why not make the first episode about the gang talking on a ship, and then facing a surprise attack from the Greyjoy fleet?

As to Winterfell:

I really wonder why Littlefinger only gets around to talk to Sansa. He is an interesting character. Why not have him approach Jon for a change? I mean, the man did save Jon's ass, right?

That isn't Jaime's story, nor the story of the outlaws following Catelyn. She is on a quest for revenge, not on quest to save anyone. A living Beric Dondarrion might do what he does in the show but Catelyn's people never will. They will cleanse the Riverlands of the Lannisters and Freys. Arya will have nothing to do with that in the books. George is never going to write as stupid scenes as we saw at the Twins this season and last.

Jaime most likely will buy back his life by helping Cat to free the hostages that are on their way to KL and by playing a role in the retaking of Riverrun. Afterwards they might hand him to Bonifer Hasty (who I think is going to lead the Holy Hundred from Harrenhal to Storm's End to do homage to Aegon there). They will consider Jaime a gift for the Targaryen pretender to help win his support in the fight against the Lannisters and Tommen in the days to come but as things turn out Aegon might end up forgiving Jaime for Aerys. After all, the man is just his grandfather, not his father, and he had severe issues with him as well as Rhaegar before his death.

Not a naval fight. The ships serve only a troop carriers. Get the ships to the Crownlands and the KL region, empty them, and overwhelm the enemy. 

Dragonstone could also be retaken by a small contingent on the way but it is hardly necessary to settle there if you have a vast armada.

That Cersei suddenly has a huge army when pretty much nobody had an army for two seasons to challenge the sparrows (and, remember, the Lannisters are still broke and they did not blow up the Iron Bank, so they cannot hire troops, either) makes no sense whatsoever in the show.

This is another obvious hint that Cersei is going to be Aegon in the books. He'll have Dorne, the Stormlands, the Crownlands, the Golden Company, parts of the Reach and the Riverlands, and possibly even the Vale. That is going to be a lot of strength, at least in theory. Whether this can be utilized in this Second Dance thing in the middle of winter is another question.

But the only way Dany can be prevented from actually taking the Iron Throne quickly in the books will be if she is attacked by a vast armada on the way to Westeros. The fact that she might also not want to totally antagonize Aegon from the start could also slow her down somewhat.

I could see Jaime helping killing freys or rescuing hostages, but how could LS trust Jaime lannister after what happened? She didn t believe brienne, so she won t believe in jaime's story either. And if Jaime says he wants to take the black instead of dieing LS is kind of obliged to agree. If she ignored it, it would be similar to what was done to her and the guest rights... And as she will never believe Jaime will keep his word she will need to escort him there. I could totally see that happening.

And arya might be involved in the frey killings. She also saw what they did... It is more believable that LS will trust Jaime to let him be part is some sort oof killing or recuing plan... Besides, there is no paying back for being involved in her son's death (from her pov)

 

And Aegon won t have all that force... With the fall of the freys and the rise of sansa in the vale these kingdoms will turn to the north. The stormlands will neve support a targaryen... That would be awfull plot. In regras to the reach I have no clue, it can go several ways...

 

And in the books danny doesn t have such a huge number of soldiers. Even if she gathers the dothriaki she will have similar numbers to Aegon and the north, vale, wildlings and riverlands aliance. The diference are the dragons that she can t control in the books...

[Dolorous Gabe]

32 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

When did Cersei learn about Dany coming to Westeros? It's a huge deal and a revealtion for Cersei when she thought all her enemies are gone. But she and Jamie talk about it so casually.

Yep. It makes a complete mockery of Varys (and Littlefinger) that nobody seems to need a Master Of Whisperers because everybody knows everything.

[divica]

2 minutes ago, Dolorous Gabe said:

Yep. It makes a complete mockery of Varys (and Littlefinger) that nobody seems to need a Master Of Whisperers because everybody knows everything.

except where the lannister army is, or if cersei calls the tyrell bannersmen to KL (tarlys)

[David Selig]

3 hours ago, Risto said:

But arguing with someone and undermining someone are two things. Sansa didn't disobey Jon, she didn't even questioned his authority, when the time came, she obeyed just like everyone else. She made Jon think about his decisions, she made him defend his position and strengthen it. She maybe didn't like the outcome but she nonetheless respected it. And afterwards gave him due credit.

Disagreements are normal and questioning other's decisions is healthy in any relationship. This was nothing more than that.

Honestly, I don't even understand what the problem here is. Like Sansa said, Joffrey is the only one who didn't like to be question regarding his decisions. Is that the aim here? One can hope Davos, Sansa, Glover, many of them feel free to give advice to Jon, but also to respect him and his decision. Which ultimately happened here.

It's a bad idea to question the Lord/King's decisions publicly in front of his bannermen. The bannermen aren't his friends. There are always some of them looking for signs of weakness or division within the ruling House. IIRC Catelyn made this exact point to Robb and as much as she disagreed with him, she made sure to never call him out publicly.

Anyway, another dumb episode. Such a shame to largely waste so much money and the efforts of so many people in the technical departments due to the utter incompetence of the writers who seem completely unable to write more than 10 minutes of passable dialogue per episode.

[Ashes Of Westeros]

10 minutes ago, Dolorous Gabe said:

Yep. It makes a complete mockery of Varys (and Littlefinger) that nobody seems to need a Master Of Whisperers because everybody knows everything.

Indeed. But we spent 10 min screen time on Sam cleaning shit, b/c it's soo crucial for the plot development.

[Philokles]

16 minutes ago, divica said:

And arya might be involved in the frey killings. She also saw what they did... It is more believable that LS will trust Jaime to let him be part is some sort oof killing or recuing plan... Besides, there is no paying back for being involved in her son's death (from her pov)

Very unlikely. At least in the manner presented in the show. Collectively punishing the male Freys by killing them all, regardless of individual guilt, is the anathema of Arya's sense of justice. In the books, she does not list the Freys at all as she is unaware which individuals were responsible. No doubt when she returns to Westeros, she would be interested to investigate and would likely determine Walder, Lame Lothar and probably a bunch more deserved to be executed (if her mother doesn't get there first). However, unlike LS she is not blinded by vengeance to want to wipe them all out.

[divica]

3 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:

Very unlikely. At least in the manner presented in the show. Collectively punishing the male Freys by killing them all, regardless of individual guilt, is the anathema of Arya's sense of justice. In the books, she does not list the Freys at all as she is unaware which individuals were responsible. No doubt when she returns to Westeros, she would be interested to investigate and would likely determine Walder, Lame Lothar and probably a bunch more deserved to be executed (if her mother doesn't get there first). However, unlike LS she is not blinded by vengeance to want to wipe them all out.

If she infiltrates one of their celebrations and sees all the freys celebrating the red wedding it might happen, however I agree that she will only target the leaders. My problem with LS killing more freys is that I can t see her giving any oportunity to let Jaime escape and I can t see her killing Jaime. The only solutions I can think of are either she dies pretty fast or takes him to the Wall. And if she goes to the Wall she doesn t have the oportunity to kill freys...

In adition, if Aegon takes KL the freys become useless to the story

[Lord Varys]

7 minutes ago, divica said:

I could see Jaime helping killing freys or rescuing hostages, but how could LS trust Jaime lannister after what happened? She didn t believe brienne, so she won t believe in jaime's story either. And if Jaime says he wants to take the black instead of dieing LS is kind of obliged to agree. If she ignored it, it would be similar to what was done to her and the guest rights... And as she will never believe Jaime will keep his word she will need to escort him there. I could totally see that happening.

Well, then why didn't Catelyn offer Ryman Frey or Merrett Frey to go to the Wall? Do you think Jaime Lannister deserves some kind of special treatment? Roose delivered the regards of the man to Robb Stark. Cat has every reason to believe Jaime Lannister was a main architect behind the Red Wedding. Also note that Cat's people are little more than butchers now. They kill people for pretty much no reason.

The only reason why/how I can see him live is if he is going to serve a role in Cat's plans to bring down the Freys and his own house. And his actual intention to reveal the truth about Tommen/Myrcella might play into all that in addition to his use as a tool to bring down his own aunt at Riverrun, free the hostages, and help with the destruction of the Twins. Once the hostages are freed the entire Riverlands will unite against the Freys.

7 minutes ago, divica said:

And arya might be involved in the frey killings. She also saw what they did... It is more believable that LS will trust Jaime to let him be part is some sort oof killing or recuing plan... Besides, there is no paying back for being involved in her son's death (from her pov)

She is still in Braavos and it seems as if the Freys are going to go down early on in TWoW. In the books people are not teleporting around. Arya (sort of) fulfilled the role of Catelyn in the show.

Arya is likely to have a completely different story in the books. Just as Catelyn is not going to the Wall in the books, either. She is more likely to ally herself with the Others considering that she must be suffering very much and be completely obsessed with revenge. The Others are ending all human life - from Cat's POV that should like a pretty good idea.

7 minutes ago, divica said:

And Aegon won t have all that force... With the fall of the freys and the rise of sansa in the vale these kingdoms will turn to the north. The stormlands will neve support a targaryen... That would be awfull plot. In regras to the reach I have no clue, it can go several ways...

Half of the Riverlands or more still lean towards House Targaryen. And the Crownlands and Reach are much closer than the North, which is basically spent. They need support against the West and Tommen while he yet lives, and the North can't give them any of that. Not to mention that Catelyn is more likely to kill Jon than to work with him. She will control the policies of the Riverlands, and she doesn't trust Stannis, either.

The Stormlands essentially are already Aegon's. Men are joining the Golden Company right now, before Aegon has announced to the Realm who he is, what he wants, and that he has taken Storm's End. When that happens Targaryen loyalists all across the Realm - but especially in the Stormlands, the Reach, and the Riverlands will declare for him.

And the Vale has much more to win by supporting Aegon than going north in the middle of winter.

People might eventually go north and team up with the people up there - or have people come down south to talk to them about the Others - but nobody in the south is going to involve himself in a military campaign in the North in winter. That would be not only silly but also suicide.

7 minutes ago, divica said:

And in the books danny doesn t have such a huge number of soldiers. Even if she gathers the dothriaki she will have similar numbers to Aegon and the north, vale, wildlings and riverlands aliance. The diference are the dragons that she can t control in the books...

If Dany gets all the Dothraki - as she did in the show - she should have millions of potential soldiers. She will vastly outnumber any of her enemies since the Dothraki are only part of her strength. She might not bring all of her men to Westeros - and might lose a significant portion of them at sea, but she will still be able to tap all those reserves she has in the months to come - dragonriders are very mobile, after all.

It might be difficult to literally conquer Westeros in winter but she doesn't really has to. All she needs to do is to take the Iron Throne and demand homage and submission from anyone. Those who want to rebel have then to march against her or wait until she puts them down in spring.

[divica]

6 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, then why didn't Catelyn offer Ryman Frey or Merrett Frey to go to the Wall? Do you think Jaime Lannister deserves some kind of special treatment? Roose delivered the regards of the man to Robb Stark. Cat has every reason to believe Jaime Lannister was a main architect behind the Red Wedding. Also note that Cat's people are little more than butchers now. They kill people for pretty much no reason.

The only reason why/how I can see him live is if he is going to serve a role in Cat's plans to bring down the Freys and his own house. And his actual intention to reveal the truth about Tommen/Myrcella might play into all that in addition to his use as a tool to bring down his own aunt at Riverrun, free the hostages, and help with the destruction of the Twins. Once the hostages are freed the entire Riverlands will unite against the Freys.

 

None of those characters might have said they wanted to take the black. And as LS doesn t have any hostages that she believes Jaime cares about she would need to keep him prisioner. After the fiasco from the first time I can t see ls keeping Jaime prisioner in order to do some plot. Besides, aren t the hostages going to KL? And the one responsible for the riverlands will be edmure, not LS.

6 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

 

Arya is likely to have a completely different story in the books. Just as Catelyn is not going to the Wall in the books, either. She is more likely to ally herself with the Others considering that she must be suffering very much and be completely obsessed with revenge. The Others are ending all human life - from Cat's POV that should like a pretty good idea.

Half of the Riverlands or more still lean towards House Targaryen. And the Crownlands and Reach are much closer than the North, which is basically spent. They need support against the West and Tommen while he yet lives, and the North can't give them any of that. Not to mention that Catelyn is more likely to kill Jon than to work with him. She will control the policies of the Riverlands, and she doesn't trust Stannis, either.

The Stormlands essentially are already Aegon's. Men are joining the Golden Company right now, before Aegon has announced to the Realm who he is, what he wants, and that he has taken Storm's End. When that happens Targaryen loyalists all across the Realm - but especially in the Stormlands, the Reach, and the Riverlands will declare for him.

And the Vale has much more to win by supporting Aegon than going north in the middle of winter.

People might eventually go north and team up with the people up there - or have people come down south to talk to them about the Others - but nobody in the south is going to involve himself in a military campaign in the North in winter. That would be not only silly but also suicide.

You are forgeting that lots of lords don t like the targaryens. I can t see very stormlands lords supporting Aegon after knowing who he claims to be. And the same aplies to the vale.... Between targs and lannisters their only option is the north (jon or stannis). And If sansa goes north and the northern lords use robbs will edmure will choose the north over the targaryens everyday of the week. And we still have the wildlings which I have no idea how many fighting men they have but I hope for a very large number (is it said in the book? I dont remember)

In regards to the reach I agree that the targs have supporters but the reach seems to be full of probs with  marg imprisionment and  euron's attacks...

 

24 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

If Dany gets all the Dothraki - as she did in the show - she should have millions of potential soldiers. She will vastly outnumber any of her enemies since the Dothraki are only part of her strength. She might not bring all of her men to Westeros - and might lose a significant portion of them at sea, but she will still be able to tap all those reserves she has in the months to come - dragonriders are very mobile, after all.

It might be difficult to literally conquer Westeros in winter but she doesn't really has to. All she needs to do is to take the Iron Throne and demand homage and submission from anyone. Those who want to rebel have then to march against her or wait until she puts them down in spring.

And who will transport all those dothriaki? and how much of those are fighting men? Danny won t have more than 50/60k fighting dothriaki and this is probably too much. I doubt there are even millions of dothriaki...

And you are forgeting how many of her soldiers will die due to winter. The people from essos won t be able to survive years of winter... they aren t used to the cold. I would say that for danny it will be a race against time to conquer westeros. If it takes too long her armies will die...

[Ashes Of Westeros]

1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

They spent a lot of time on Sandor in the Inside the Episode:

Weiss: “One of the moments I love in episode 1 is Rory’s performance as the Hound where he sees the bodies of the farmer and the little girl he left to die, and sure enough they died in a very unpleasant way. He shows you changes he's undergone as a human being. 4 seasons ago he'd never think about burying the bodies of some people that he somehow felt responsible for."

Benioff: “He mugged the guy and stole his money, left him penniless on the brink of winter. So I think he's dealing with this unusual emotion for him of guilt, which he's not really experienced with. And it's a bit of a torment, and the only thing he can do is bury their bodies and try to say some words over their grave. He doesn't believe in religion, he doesn't like religion anyway, but he can't deny the facts of what he's seen. He's seen Thoros raise Beric from the dead. So for the Hound, he wants to know what does this god want? Part of him hates it, because he thinks these people are fanatics and dull and gullible, but at the same time he can't deny the truth of what he sees, and part of that truth now is seeing these visions in the flames."

As I said, I like the idea. This scene was done much better than most of the episode. For me it was full of unneccessry details. A tragic story of a farmer killing his daugther is one of them. The Hound and BwB have been travelling for years around a war-torn country and have seen all the horrors the war brought to common folk. Why would they suddenly start guessing what happened to a dead farmer? Just to bring a tear to viewer's eyes?

I haven't watched Inside the Episode yet. 

[Lord Varys]

9 minutes ago, divica said:

None of those characters might have said they wanted to take the black. And as LS doesn t have any hostages that she believes Jaime cares about she would need to keep him prisioner. After the fiasco from the first time I can t see ls keeping Jaime prisioner in order to do some plot. Besides, aren t the hostages going to KL? And the one responsible for the riverlands will be edmure, not LS.

Reread the chapters on the outlaws. They start killing for minor offenses as early as ASoS but the people around Catelyn in AFfC are basically nothing but butchers. They don't give a shit about the rights of people.

If Jaime won't be of any use to Cat in her fight against the Lannisters and Freys he'll hang. And prior to that he'll most likely lose his other hand and feet and cock, too. Cat has no reason whatsoever to be lenient with him. She might even torture him despite the fact that she intends to use him. He doesn't necessarily have to be in good shape.

9 minutes ago, divica said:

You are forgeting that lots of lords don t like the targaryens. I can t see very stormlands lords supporting Aegon after knowing who he claims to be. And the same aplies to the vale.... Between targs and lannisters their only option is the north (jon or stannis). And If sansa goes north and the northern lords use robbs will edmure will choose the north over the targaryens everyday of the week. And we still have the wildlings which I have no idea how many fighting men they have but I hope for a very large number (is it said in the book? I dont remember)

Who doesn't like the Targaryens? Robert hated the Targaryens. Ned had issues with Aerys and Rhaegar, but he didn't hate Rhaella, Viserys, or Daenerys. He did everything in his power to try to save the latter. Half the Riverlands fought with Rhaegar at the Trident. And half the Stormlands and the Vale originally fought the rebels, too. Gulltown stood with Aerys as did the lords that tried to defeat Robert at Summerhall.

And AFfC and ADwD give us people from Oldtown to White Harbor drinking to Dany's health or talk about how Prince Aegon might still be alive. People in KL look forward when a dragon hatching from an egg devours all the arrogant lions.

Westeros is ripe for a Targaryen restoration and it will be Aegon who fulfills that desire.

In the book it will be Aegon who refers to Dany's father and the madness she might have inherited from him. In the trailer for the next episode we have Mad Queen Cersei (who blew up the Great Sept of Baelor!) have warn the people of the madness of the daughter of the Mad King. In the books this kind of thing will work - Aegon will get a lot of people on board with his plan by pointing to the madness of people like Euron, Cersei, Dany, perhaps even Stannis.

Robb's kingdom died with at the Twins. Jon might sort of end in a leadership position in the North after Stannis' eventual death, but that doesn't seem to be happening soon in the books. And I honestly doubt he'll be declared king or accept a crown if it offered to him. It won't help him forging an alliance against the Others.

9 minutes ago, divica said:

In regards to the reach I agree that the targs have supporters but the reach seems to be full of probs with  marg imprisionment and  euron's attacks...

The Hightowers are unlikely to declare for Aegon, but those farther away from the coasts and the Mander/Honeywine might - the Rowans, Merryweathers, Peakes, etc. Perhaps even the Tyrells after Mace is dead. Willas and Garlan are not stupid. They won't join Euron.

9 minutes ago, divica said:

And who will transport all those dothriaki? and how much of those are fighting men? Danny won t have more than 50/60k fighting dothriaki and this is probably too much. I doubt there are even millions of dothriaki...

Drogo's khalasar consisted of 40,000 fighters and 100,000 people in total. Drogo just ruled one khalasars. If there are, say, 20-30 khalasars in total we would be talking millions even if some of the other khalasars are smaller than Drogo's.

As to Dany's ships - she'll have Victarion's Iron Fleet, the entire Volantene armada (300-500 huge war galleys on the way to Slaver's Bay right now plus the ships back in Volantis), all the ships belonging to the Ghiscari, and possibly even the Qartheen ships.

On the way to Westeros she should also capture Myr, Pentos, and Lys and Tyrosh, taking possession of quite a few of their ships, too.

Most of the Dothraki could ride to the shores of the Narrow Sea to be picked up by ships there.

Volantis controls a lot of ships - note that they got the entire Golden Company to the Stormlands while they were also preparing a campaign against Daenerys.

9 minutes ago, divica said:

And you are forgeting how many of her soldiers will die due to winter. The people from essos won t be able to survive years of winter... they aren t used to the cold. I would say that for danny it will be a race against time to conquer westeros. If it takes too long her armies will die...

Winter happens in Essos, too. It is not that hard there because most of the lands are pretty far down in the south. But they knew how to deal with it and it is quite likely that winter will set in in those regions much later than, say, in the North. In Volantis it is still hot as hell during the nights in late autumn. It is not likely that it will be snowing there in, say, next month. Dany might already be in Westeros when that happens.

And, sure, winter is becoming a problem but Dany should secure most of the resources of the various slaver cities. She will have sufficient food for her people. Else everybody is going to die.

Because by the time she arrives in Westeros most food and provisions there will be destroyed.

[LokisRaider]

So my biggest gripes with this episode are:

Sansa, it seems she is only capable of disagreeing with Jon, saying to listen to her and never actually offering any real advice or listening to his reasons. And her "Cersei is smart cause she can kill anyone and not get caught" line all I could think is that's because the show writers just wrote it that way. She hasn't been subtly about anything in several seasons. Which brings me to...

Cersei, seriously how are they still alive? How is Kings landing not in full riot mode after her antics?

Sam, seriously I kno people keep saying it but how many more times did we have to see that shit montage? Were they trying to make it funny by showing him gagging on every time too? I saw that and all I could think was "great they couldn't go one episode without a dick/fart joke".

Euron, ok I hated him last year because he just seemed dull and not imposing at all. He had no charisma and wasn't cunning in the slightest. So, this season did they ask him to just act more like Jack Sparrow? Go over the top and be a swashbuckler? They took an already terrible adaptation and just turned him into a terrible stereotyped dastardly villain.

 

[Rockroi]

 

I went back and I rewatched a few of the episodes from Season 6 and realized that I was probably too hard on the show that season.  I figured it was because Season 5 was so fucking terrible (and it was) that it clouded my judgement about the how in season 6.  And not because the show is in the middle of an epic tailspin as the show runners are utterly hapless since the source material stopped and Martin has really stopped providing any support (ie: he stopped writing one episode a season years ago).  
No, not that at all.  
So, SEASON SEVEN!   Here we… ohhh…. Fuuuuckkkk…. 
I’m not saying it was boring, but there was a scene this week where two characters LITERALLY watched paint dry… 

What I liked?
Pod:  Gonna start off slow here but I think Pod is looking less and less like some noble’s kid and more and more like a grizzled veteran.  The actor is doing a very good job.
The Queen and Her Consort: After an artist completes his depiction of the seven Kingdoms at Cersei’s feet, Cersei and Jaime engage in a moderately decent discussion of their situation: they are fucked.  No heirs, no dynasty, no army, no Navy, no allies.  But they have a plan in the Reavers of Pyke.  Kinda.  See, turns out that although we had to watch that BS last season… somehow… it didn’t count.  Because… reasons?  Any explanation?  Anyone going to tell the viewer how it happened or why or … anyway, doesn’t matter.  What matters is that the show, after telling us how pathetic and weak House Lannister is, wants us to fear House Lannister.  Not sure how we can do that.  Regardless, watching Jaime and Cersei interact was … fine.  I understood their issues; I got why they were screwed and Jaime seemed both smart and capable.  
The Citadel:  Epically stupid… BUT … well done.  Great acting on everyone’s part, good filming; I thought Sam seemed both distressed AND focused.  There was nothing approaching wit or humor, but I think I got what the show-runners wanted me to get.
The Hound: a Very in-your -face scene that paid off.  YThe Brotherhood Without Banners is yetr another in a long line of failures for this show (“We are sworn to each other- more loyal than any oath and stronger than any castle-forged steel… unless your name is Gendry and a hot red woman shows up with two bags of gold… but damn it OUR OATHS HOLD IF ITS ONLY ONE BAG OF GOLD!”).  But the Hound killed it the whole time.  His struggle seemed more real than we would have thought (though still really sparse on details).  I liked the decision to keep the farmer and daughter’s corpses around the whole time.  I thought that while the Brotherhood is ultimately a waste of otherwise good characters, the show did the best it could.  
Sansa Queenmaker: Sansa’s realpolitik is striking.  I think Turner is doing a tremendous job.  Sansa is a dynamic and vicious player in the GoT and she seems righta t home in the unforgiving North… that now seems more forgiving.  Regardless, her place in the game is fully secured and I hope the show builds on her.  I absolutely LOVED that she mentioned Robb and Ned and how their failures were on them.  Honesty is a bitch.  
(Not-So-Honorable Mention: For making the claim that Jon is a great leader.  WHAT???!  You mean the guy who ignored your advice before the Battle of the Bastards, alienated the Night’s Watch enough to have them murder him?  That guy?  Yeah, he’s great).  
Soldiering On: Yes, I get it Ed Sheeran was in the show.  Oh the Humanity.  But that was a really deep scene where Arya- who hates the Lannisters and wants them all dead -breaks bread with them, hears who they are as people, finds that she likes them and feels “safe” with them  This scene was a long-time coming where our enemies will likely, one day, need to be our friends.  I think the show did a deft job of this.  
On the Fence:
The Lords of Fan Service: I … I get it … you watch Social Media and you see that that little girl who is the Lord of Bear Island gets the fans cheering.  And Arya doing Arya things is so Arya.  So you give the fans what they want.  The showrunners now cater to the fans and give them what they think they want – a old and wise little girl who shoots down grizzled lords and Arya wiping out an entire family in 15 seconds.  If there was one thing I always loved about the books (those few years we had them) it was that Martin NEVER gave the fans what they wanted.  How about instead of giving the fans what you think the fans want… you… developed characters, involve them in compelling stories and then bring those stories to a climax?  But … wait … dragons.  

DRAGONSTONE!  ISN’T THIS EXCITING! I know the payoff seemed cool, but it wasn’t.  For starters, we KNEW last season that she was “OMW” to Westeros and Jaime said she would head for Dragonstone.  Why did we need 3 minutes of … dead air?  I get that it was so she could say “Shall we begin” and make it seem cool.  BUT WE HAVE 7 EPISODES THIS SEASON!  Time is a precious commodity!  Stop wasting it on this silly, boring stuff.  I mean, if the season STARTED with Danny ON Dragonstone … would we have felt cheated?  Get this shit going! 
‘The Plot Devices’ Arm: So, there were MANY bad things at Oldtown, and one of them was Mormont’s arm in the cell.  I like that he’s here, but … HOW DID HE GET HERE!  Do these people have time travel?  Warp speed?  Do they get teleporters or something? How did he get to Oldtown?  He left like 4 episodes ago (I think).  Time moves in mysterious ways in Westeroes.  

Arya’s Finale: I think in a way I sort of liked it- we just put a gigantic “period” at the end of an otherwise useless plot (The Freys in the Riverlands).  But holy Hell is that just a silly combo of Fan Service and empty writing.  Basically, Arya is now a Super Wizard who can not only travel across space and time in 20 minutes, she is so good at the Faceless Man Thing (TM pending) that she can basically kill anyone at any time.  And so with very few resources she is able to poison everyone at House Frey.  They were all there BTW- everyone could make it.  And she poisoned them all.  
Okay, I can swallow that to some degree because they have now made her unbelievably powerful.  But could they have made it any less interesting or easier for her?  Remember when characters had to work for their payoff?  When things were difficult and dangerous?  Well, not anymore.  Now our favorite characters walk into a castle, kill its leader, hides the body and then somehow poison everyone in the family.  In, like, 15 minutes.  Nothing goes wrong; nobody asks silly questions, nobody acts out of line.  Everything just goes perfectly.  In other words, it felt an awful lot like Magic (because it was, really) and that never interests me.  I wish we had more of Arya doing hard work to EARN such a glorious payoff instead of the “push this button and all your enemies die” scene we got.
But… still kinda glad it was fast.  

What I hated:
We Thought It Would Have Been Too Obvious Had Dany Landed On Dragonstone with a Map Where X Marked the Spot: So… it was stupid enough that the most well-done scenes this episode were the ones involving books and shit… but then you had this obvious thing where Sam is trying to find Dragonglass and instead of working to find it… he literally looks at a book and there is a LITERAL MAP RIGHT TO A GIGANTIC CACHE OF DRAGONGLASS!  In a book.  Right there.  For anyone to see.  He’s been telling people about White Walkers and Dragonglass for weeks, but no no… its all right there in a book.  THnak God.  For a moment I thought characters would need to work to get something.  Thankfully it plops down in their lap.  

Its Season 7 Only It Feels Like Season 1:  This is REALLY nit-picky on my part but … where is everyone?  The Frey diner had like 20 people in it; Cersei’s thrown room had NOBODY in it; the Citadel seemed like it had the same 8 Masters in it; there was LITERALLY nobody on Dragonstone.  If it wasn’t for CGIs we’d have no White Walkers and no Iron Fleet.  The sparse feeling of the show is evident and its distracting.  If you show a Kingdom, it would be nice to know that it had subjects.  

Is it Over? Yes and No:  The show is very boring.  This episode was very boring.  Its understandable because this is the season opener and the show continues to follow the tradition of going over old ground a second time in the opener.  It sucks because this “season” is split (needlessly) between two years and that’s dumb but they do it now. But we don’t have the time for such slow episodes like this.  Almost everything that happened we either 1) knew was going to happen (Dany Lands on Dragonstone; Sam at the Citadel) or 2) seems contrived (Cersei + Iron Isles – Profit).  Did any of it lead to anything?  Even the big pay-off scene – Arya killing the Freys – we already knew that!  She already killed Walder.  We knew that the family would not properly rebound.  But we went over the same ground already.
The show isn’t terrible – its not, despite my lukewarm reception to it; its just feeling less and less interesting; more and more predictable; its not NEARLY as hard for the heroes as it was in the past and the “villains” seem already defeated- like we are just waiting for the ref to stop the fight.  The drama of the show is done: replaced by buried treasure, magic and fan-service.  And that is not only too easy.  Its also boring.  
 

 

[Rockroi]

 

I went back and I rewatched a few of the episodes from Season 6 and realized that I was probably too hard on the show that season.  I figured it was because Season 5 was so fucking terrible (and it was) that it clouded my judgement about the how in season 6.  And not because the show is in the middle of an epic tailspin as the show runners are utterly hapless since the source material stopped and Martin has really stopped providing any support (ie: he stopped writing one episode a season years ago).  
No, not that at all.  
So, SEASON SEVEN!   Here we… ohhh…. Fuuuuckkkk…. 
I’m not saying it was boring, but there was a scene this week where two characters LITERALLY watched paint dry… 

What I liked?
Pod:  Gonna start off slow here but I think Pod is looking less and less like some noble’s kid and more and more like a grizzled veteran.  The actor is doing a very good job.
The Queen and Her Consort: After an artist completes his depiction of the seven Kingdoms at Cersei’s feet, Cersei and Jaime engage in a moderately decent discussion of their situation: they are fucked.  No heirs, no dynasty, no army, no Navy, no allies.  But they have a plan in the Reavers of Pyke.  Kinda.  See, turns out that although we had to watch that BS last season… somehow… it didn’t count.  Because… reasons?  Any explanation?  Anyone going to tell the viewer how it happened or why or … anyway, doesn’t matter.  What matters is that the show, after telling us how pathetic and weak House Lannister is, wants us to fear House Lannister.  Not sure how we can do that.  Regardless, watching Jaime and Cersei interact was … fine.  I understood their issues; I got why they were screwed and Jaime seemed both smart and capable.  
The Citadel:  Epically stupid… BUT … well done.  Great acting on everyone’s part, good filming; I thought Sam seemed both distressed AND focused.  There was nothing approaching wit or humor, but I think I got what the show-runners wanted me to get.
The Hound: a Very in-your -face scene that paid off.  YThe Brotherhood Without Banners is yetr another in a long line of failures for this show (“We are sworn to each other- more loyal than any oath and stronger than any castle-forged steel… unless your name is Gendry and a hot red woman shows up with two bags of gold… but damn it OUR OATHS HOLD IF ITS ONLY ONE BAG OF GOLD!”).  But the Hound killed it the whole time.  His struggle seemed more real than we would have thought (though still really sparse on details).  I liked the decision to keep the farmer and daughter’s corpses around the whole time.  I thought that while the Brotherhood is ultimately a waste of otherwise good characters, the show did the best it could.  
Sansa Queenmaker: Sansa’s realpolitik is striking.  I think Turner is doing a tremendous job.  Sansa is a dynamic and vicious player in the GoT and she seems righta t home in the unforgiving North… that now seems more forgiving.  Regardless, her place in the game is fully secured and I hope the show builds on her.  I absolutely LOVED that she mentioned Robb and Ned and how their failures were on them.  Honesty is a bitch.  
(Not-So-Honorable Mention: For making the claim that Jon is a great leader.  WHAT???!  You mean the guy who ignored your advice before the Battle of the Bastards, alienated the Night’s Watch enough to have them murder him?  That guy?  Yeah, he’s great).  
Soldiering On: Yes, I get it Ed Sheeran was in the show.  Oh the Humanity.  But that was a really deep scene where Arya- who hates the Lannisters and wants them all dead -breaks bread with them, hears who they are as people, finds that she likes them and feels “safe” with them  This scene was a long-time coming where our enemies will likely, one day, need to be our friends.  I think the show did a deft job of this.  
On the Fence:
The Lords of Fan Service: I … I get it … you watch Social Media and you see that that little girl who is the Lord of Bear Island gets the fans cheering.  And Arya doing Arya things is so Arya.  So you give the fans what they want.  The showrunners now cater to the fans and give them what they think they want – a old and wise little girl who shoots down grizzled lords and Arya wiping out an entire family in 15 seconds.  If there was one thing I always loved about the books (those few years we had them) it was that Martin NEVER gave the fans what they wanted.  How about instead of giving the fans what you think the fans want… you… developed characters, involve them in compelling stories and then bring those stories to a climax?  But … wait … dragons.  

DRAGONSTONE!  ISN’T THIS EXCITING! I know the payoff seemed cool, but it wasn’t.  For starters, we KNEW last season that she was “OMW” to Westeros and Jaime said she would head for Dragonstone.  Why did we need 3 minutes of … dead air?  I get that it was so she could say “Shall we begin” and make it seem cool.  BUT WE HAVE 7 EPISODES THIS SEASON!  Time is a precious commodity!  Stop wasting it on this silly, boring stuff.  I mean, if the season STARTED with Danny ON Dragonstone … would we have felt cheated?  Get this shit going! 
‘The Plot Devices’ Arm: So, there were MANY bad things at Oldtown, and one of them was Mormont’s arm in the cell.  I like that he’s here, but … HOW DID HE GET HERE!  Do these people have time travel?  Warp speed?  Do they get teleporters or something? How did he get to Oldtown?  He left like 4 episodes ago (I think).  Time moves in mysterious ways in Westeroes.  

Arya’s Finale: I think in a way I sort of liked it- we just put a gigantic “period” at the end of an otherwise useless plot (The Freys in the Riverlands).  But holy Hell is that just a silly combo of Fan Service and empty writing.  Basically, Arya is now a Super Wizard who can not only travel across space and time in 20 minutes, she is so good at the Faceless Man Thing (TM pending) that she can basically kill anyone at any time.  And so with very few resources she is able to poison everyone at House Frey.  They were all there BTW- everyone could make it.  And she poisoned them all.  
Okay, I can swallow that to some degree because they have now made her unbelievably powerful.  But could they have made it any less interesting or easier for her?  Remember when characters had to work for their payoff?  When things were difficult and dangerous?  Well, not anymore.  Now our favorite characters walk into a castle, kill its leader, hides the body and then somehow poison everyone in the family.  In, like, 15 minutes.  Nothing goes wrong; nobody asks silly questions, nobody acts out of line.  Everything just goes perfectly.  In other words, it felt an awful lot like Magic (because it was, really) and that never interests me.  I wish we had more of Arya doing hard work to EARN such a glorious payoff instead of the “push this button and all your enemies die” scene we got.
But… still kinda glad it was fast.  

What I hated:
We Thought It Would Have Been Too Obvious Had Dany Landed On Dragonstone with a Map Where X Marked the Spot: So… it was stupid enough that the most well-done scenes this episode were the ones involving books and shit… but then you had this obvious thing where Sam is trying to find Dragonglass and instead of working to find it… he literally looks at a book and there is a LITERAL MAP RIGHT TO A GIGANTIC CACHE OF DRAGONGLASS!  In a book.  Right there.  For anyone to see.  He’s been telling people about White Walkers and Dragonglass for weeks, but no no… its all right there in a book.  THnak God.  For a moment I thought characters would need to work to get something.  Thankfully it plops down in their lap.  

Its Season 7 Only It Feels Like Season 1:  This is REALLY nit-picky on my part but … where is everyone?  The Frey diner had like 20 people in it; Cersei’s thrown room had NOBODY in it; the Citadel seemed like it had the same 8 Masters in it; there was LITERALLY nobody on Dragonstone.  If it wasn’t for CGIs we’d have no White Walkers and no Iron Fleet.  The sparse feeling of the show is evident and its distracting.  If you show a Kingdom, it would be nice to know that it had subjects.  

Is it Over? Yes and No:  The show is very boring.  This episode was very boring.  Its understandable because this is the season opener and the show continues to follow the tradition of going over old ground a second time in the opener.  It sucks because this “season” is split (needlessly) between two years and that’s dumb but they do it now. But we don’t have the time for such slow episodes like this.  Almost everything that happened we either 1) knew was going to happen (Dany Lands on Dragonstone; Sam at the Citadel) or 2) seems contrived (Cersei + Iron Isles – Profit).  Did any of it lead to anything?  Even the big pay-off scene – Arya killing the Freys – we already knew that!  She already killed Walder.  We knew that the family would not properly rebound.  But we went over the same ground already.
The show isn’t terrible – its not, despite my lukewarm reception to it; its just feeling less and less interesting; more and more predictable; its not NEARLY as hard for the heroes as it was in the past and the “villains” seem already defeated- like we are just waiting for the ref to stop the fight.  The drama of the show is done: replaced by buried treasure, magic and fan-service.  And that is not only too easy.  Its also boring.  
 

 

[RhaenysBee]

There were essentially three or four things that pissed me off. 

Yes, I didn't like the fact that certain scenes are so damn dark I can't figure out what's happening for my life, and I don't like the costumes and I think they are still wasting screentime like nobody's business. But we can all live with that. What I can't seem to get over is the following: 

1. Everybody knows everything. Remind me, how does Arya know that Robb had a pregnant wife who was killed at the Red Wedding? How does Cersei know that Jon was named King in the North? Was Jon idiotic enough to send a raven to King's Landing? I can potentially see that cersei would know about Euron, because Cersei WOULD advertise that she is queen and Euron wouldn't hesitate to write back. How does she know about the Freys? Didn't that happen just five minutes ago? Did Arya send a raven to KL that some-one killed the Freys? Did the Frey wife? Then why didn't she say it was not someone, but a friggin' stark girl who killed the Freys? If Cersei knows all this, why doesn't Littlefinger and/or Jon? Doesn't Jon have a maester? isn't Littlefinger an all-knowing master player? oh god it's just... They could have given Cersei a piece of parchment to read up the The Westeros Times newspage. It would have been more credible. 

2. This characterization that's as subtle as a battle axe. What is this insanely aggressive and blatant way or pushing the  personality traits of a character into the audience's face? Looook at me, I'm a vindictive mass murderer, look at me! See? I vindictively murdered more Freys! And Let's build a dynasty for ourselves, this is what we've been waiting for! You think I listened to father for 40 years and learned nothing? No, Cersei, we know you have been oppressed by the patriarchy, even though you are a wise and accomplished woman who knows subtle diplomacy and political strategy much more than any of the male members of your family. And then, look at me, Jon, I have an opinion! Jon, I still have an opinion and I can question you! And my opinion is better than yours because I've seen stuff! And now I'm smarter than you and Robb and Father and Littlefinger and a fifth grader! Look at me Jon I am so smart and opinionated and I can quesiton you! And Oh guys, even though I hated you once, I kinda learned to appreciate everybody and see the good in everything because I'm so deeply changed. I can admire the messages in fire and bury people, because I'm so changed and humane now. I used to hate fire and look down on people, but now I appreciate everything because I'm changed. Yes, we get it the hound is changed. Just. Stop. 

3. I know it's 2017, but are we seriously letting 10 year old Lyanna Mormont go to battle because she is sassy? I mean aren't we just a slightly bit over-exaggerating the girlpower and empowered and feminism hashtags in this medieval context? I swear to god Wonderwoman handled this theme more subtly than GoT has been. 

4. Unanswered questions. So it's one thing that Sansa wants to take away the Umbers' and Karstarks' castles but who does she want to give it to? The Mormonts, the Wildlings or the Vale lords? Because those were the people who fought for him. There was no mention of the Bolton castle,  the one that's actually standing empty and is eligible for being given away. Also, after Arya massacred the Frey family, did she remember they have been holding her uncle captive? Does Jaime remember? Is Edmure even at the Twins or is he in a cell in Riverrun? Did Euron really make a thousand ships or what armada are we talking about? 

[SerMixalot]

why was everyone shitting in their bed?  Ididnt get that.

 

Also I'm from an older generation, but what is an Ed Sheeran?

[Cas Stark]

I don't find too much to rant about, I broke down and watched the episode after all, because the spoilers indicated no wolves or dragons dead.

OMG Sansa sucks!  I always wonder when the show does something like this, even they even know it, or if this is them again showing women on top/women are powerful.  Even children!  Sansa is a Player!  LMAO, except for that whole 'never take sides against the family in public public part'  I guess she missed that tutorial.  Dumb as dirt.  So dumb she doesn't apparently realize that all she has to do is tell the Vale Lords that she' wasn't f. kidnapped by Ramsay and LF is done.

I thought Euron was much improved from last year.  I even liked his costume, which Euron and Arya are the only ones I do like, the Dragonstone contingent, ugh, soooo ugly.

I wish the show....if we're going full on Arya fan service....why don't we let her give at least the wolf/sheep line as herself?????????????  I mean, again, Arya is better than Ramsay's 20 good men,  she can kill entire houses in a single bound, but always getting short changed on the diaologue.

The site is so bad now I start to wonder if they do it on purpose to keep show watchers away?