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[Spoilers] Rant and Rave without Repercussion

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4 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I thought her expressions were pretty bad also....she can be okay, I will never understand how or why her best season by far was Season 1, and as she has had more experience, she has gotten worse, same with Sophie,  I'm now feeling that Sophie and Emilia are neck and neck for bad acting, and I used to think that Sophie was almost always good.  That puts Kit as only the third worst actor on the show, LOL, and at least he has generally improved, even if just a little.

So true.  They both suck and didn't use to suck so much.  Sophie's descent into ham is more explicable -- as I assume she was very young in the first season, and later adolescence can be awkward for an actor.  But Emilia Clarke is just a failure of imagination

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3 hours ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

I completely understand why this happens.

When the writing was better. and the character you're playing had consistent and defineable characterization. It's easier to just make believe you're that character, and method act. She could just act by pretending in her mind that she is "Sansa Stark".

But now, when the characterization is such a mess, it's impossible to do this. You can't pretend to be "Sansa Stark" when Sansa Stark has no definieable characteristics and personality,  You are a different person each scene because this scene requires you to be this kind of person and the next scene requires you to be a completely different person.   Now, this is where experience comes in.  For an experienced actor like Charles Dance, he has played many different types of characters and personalities in his past, he can draw from his past experience to play these difference personalities, and literally be a different type of character as the scene requires.

For young, relatively inexperienced actors like Turner, they can't do that, they haven't played all those different characters and can't draw from them to match the character they need to be for this scene.  When the writing is bad, their inexperience gets exposed.

This is a great explanation, much better than mine.

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3 hours ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

I completely understand why this happens.

When the writing was better. and the character you're playing had consistent and defineable characterization. It's easier to just make believe you're that character, and method act. She could just act by pretending in her mind that she is "Sansa Stark".

But now, when the characterization is such a mess, it's impossible to do this. You can't pretend to be "Sansa Stark" when Sansa Stark has no definieable characteristics and personality,  You are a different person each scene because this scene requires you to be this kind of person and the next scene requires you to be a completely different person.   Now, this is where experience comes in.  For an experienced actor like Charles Dance, he has played many different types of characters and personalities in his past, he can draw from his past experience to play these difference personalities, and literally be a different type of character as the scene requires.

For young, relatively inexperienced actors like Turner, they can't do that, they haven't played all those different characters and can't draw from them to match the character they need to be for this scene.  When the writing is bad, their inexperience gets exposed.

This is a pretty good explanation. 

It should also be mentioned that the writers have done much more of a disservice to the younger actors than the older ones in general. Their writing of the older actors has been far more consistent and of higher quality generally than the writing for the younger actors.

As bad as the writing has been at times for Tyrion, Cersei and Jaime for example, it has been much worse for Sansa, Arya, Jon and Dany, especially in the last 2-3 seasons.

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1 minute ago, Gaz0680 said:

This is a pretty good explanation. 

It should also be mentioned that the writers have done much more of a disservice to the younger actors than the older ones in general. Their writing of the older actors has been far more consistent and of higher quality generally than the writing for the younger actors.

As bad as the writing has been at times for Tyrion, Cersei and Jaime for example, it has been much worse for Sansa, Arya, Jon and Dany, especially in the last 2-3 seasons.

And Bran, who may have gotten even worse shaft from the writers when compared to his siblings.

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1 hour ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

If there is one thing everyone should have learned from last season, it's that ever time the audience comes up with a theory that suggests there is something coherent underneath the incoherent mess we see on the screen, it always ends up being wishful thinking, the incoherence is never the result of some deeper hidden plot, but just plain poor writing.

 

 

It doesn't hurt to try. Many theorised Cersei burning the city with wildfire and it happened. However, I do get what you mean, the whole Northern plot (Ramsay+Sansa, Vale army saved the day, Petyr killing Lysa with no back up plan to cover his steps) is one gigantic bollock. 

The other huge bollock is a deserted Dragonstone :rolleyes:

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58 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

And Bran, who may have gotten even worse shaft from the writers when compared to his siblings.

Agreed, but based on screen time, Bran is a secondary character in the show - Sansa, Arya, Jon and Dany are not. Bran got more screentime in the early seasons and they focused more on his actual character and development then, as opposed to now where he is purely an exposition machine.

I think the core of the problem is D&D don't really expect their audience to think much or pick up on character inconsistencies or gaping plot holes. I also think they have genuinely deluded themselves into believing they've done a good job of telling the story of these characters journeys.

In truth, they did a horrible job.

We are near the endgame now and I believe D&D have the stage set so each of the main young characters is supposed to be near the end of their journey and height of their powers.

I really think they intend, as of right now, with the journey the characters have taken, for us to believe:

*Jon to be a great leader of men and warrior.

*Dany to be a truly great ruler as well as a dragonrider

*Arya to be the equal of a fully trained assassin and be able to disguise herself fully at will.

*Sansa to be a major game player on par with LF and Varys

*Bran to be a master of his greenseer and warging powers.

Never mind the fact there have been almost countless issues with the storytelling of the journeys of all these characters, inconsistencies in characterisation and the multiple suspensions of disbelief that we have had to have on the way. 

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The clichés and fan services of season 6 continue :

  1. Jon being the cool authotarian guy
  2. Mormont girl being feisty
  3. Arya with her typical and boring punisher-style story
  4. brienne and tormund flirting

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8 hours ago, SerMixalot said:

After the dust of season 6 has settled and as we start a new season let's check up on the status of the great houses

Starting from the South

1. Dorne-Eliminated to the last drop, except for some bastard daughters

2. Baratheon-Eliminated to the last drop, except for maybe a bastard son

3. Tyrell-Eliminated to the last drop, except for an old lady who is highly incapable of producing heirs

4. Lannisters-Current generation-Dead, Cersei possibly still capable of breeding, Jaime possibly in the Kingsguard, possibly not, honestly can't remember, as if it is important. Stated last night that dynasty ends with Cersei and Jaime.  Tyrion, being who he is will probably end up on Iron Throne and will have a perfect child sit at School House Rock

5. Tully-Edmure is missing in action, I THINK he has a child, but who knows at this point

6. Arryn-Brave Ser Robyn alive and kicking, presumably

7. Greyjoy-Kin and Kingslayer Euron rules but at odds with niece and nephew

8. Stark-Gets weird here.  Jon, a bastard, nights watch desert, is King of the North? Or just Lord of Winterfell?  If KotN is Sansa Lady of Winterfell?  Both claims should be bypassed by Bran

Targaryen-Dany

 

 

I don't know that Bran can claim to be KitN as Jon was acclaimed king by the Houses - he didn't inherit the title, which is a different scenario.  Bran is definitely the Lord of Winterfell though - and both Jon and Sansa know he wasn't killed by Theon.

7 hours ago, Ingelheim said:

He says the Maesters need to look for information about dragonglass and where could it be. I don't think there'll be much of it in the North though.

I wonder where the CotF used to get the dragonglass they gave to the NW.  Perhaps it can be found in places other than Dragonstone (although Dragonstone is the obvious place to go as it has such large deposits).

5 hours ago, Ser Snowflake said:

The only way to circumvent Moat Caitlin is with a navy. Cersei is currently without a fleet. Even if she allies herself with Euron, she has a closer enemy to worry about.....her brother and the dragon queen.

There is a reason why the North is the last kingdom of the First Men. The Andals had ships then, but they never once conquered the North. If Jon didn't have the WW to worry about, he would be in the most secure position of all the claimants. Jon should build a fleet to protects his flanks and fortify the Moat.

Unfortunately, the show has established a different fact - you can go around Moat Cailin (according to Brienne). :bang:  And she did. :/

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6 hours ago, Queen of Procrastination said:

:agree:

I have occaisionally defended her in the past, but she was terrible in this Episode. Setting foot on Dragonstone should mean so much for Daenerys, but she just shows no emotion. I couldn't tell what Deadpean was feeling in this moment. She made the same face she made in many other Episodes. 

Emilia Clarke is very expressive IRL, just watch her interviews. But in the GoT she lost all her expressions after s1-2. The Dragonstone scene was really bad lazy writing. This is a milestone for Daenerys, but there's nothing in that scene that shows it. Peter Dinklage shows more emotions during his 3-5 sec screentime than her.

3 hours ago, Lady Lovisa said:

And speaking of actress, I cannot believe that nobody else has theorised that Sansa's "rivalry" with Jon was just a facade/pretense by her

If it is so, it is a bad writing again. If smth is going on, it should be clear from what's happening on a screen, not from theories or Inside the Episode explaination. Certain characters know some things and don't know other things, but a viewer knows what all characters combined know. Sansa may not be aware of what's going on beyond the Wall and Jon may not know what happenes in Mereen, but viewers know what happenes both in Mereen and Beyond the Wall.

When Tyrion was intriguing against Cersei in s2-3, we knew what he's up to. Of course, we couldn't know it from his thoughts like in the books, but from his actions and dialogues with other characters. 

In this case, eve  if Sansa has a secret plan, there's no hint and no explaination to it.

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54 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

Emilia Clarke is very expressive IRL, just watch her interviews. But in the GoT she lost all her expressions after s1-2. The Dragonstone scene was really bad lazy writing. This is a milestone for Daenerys, but there's nothing in that scene that shows it. Peter Dinklage shows more emotions during his 3-5 sec screentime than her.

If it is so, it is a bad writing again. If smth is going on, it should be clear from what's happening on a screen, not from theories or Inside the Episode explaination. Certain characters know some things and don't know other things, but a viewer knows what all characters combined know. Sansa may not be aware of what's going on beyond the Wall and Jon may not know what happenes in Mereen, but viewers know what happenes both in Mereen and Beyond the Wall.

When Tyrion was intriguing against Cersei in s2-3, we knew what he's up to. Of course, we couldn't know it from his thoughts like in the books, but from his actions and dialogues with other characters. 

In this case, eve  if Sansa has a secret plan, there's no hint and no explaination to it.

Characters don't need to spell out and justify every single action. It will kill the thrill and kill the suspense. ASOIAF is well known for plot twists and shock value. Though I would agree GOT writers are pretty incompetent when it comes to logic and consistency of plots.

Sansa's plans may unravel towards the end of the season.

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1 hour ago, Lady Lovisa said:

Characters don't need to spell out and justify every single action. It will kill the thrill and kill the suspense. ASOIAF is well known for plot twists and shock value. Though I would agree GOT writers are pretty incompetent when it comes to logic and consistency of plots.

Sansa's plans may unravel towards the end of the season.

Yes they do. Like the poster above said, the audience needs to know. In terms of the books, even if GRRM surprises us, it's done in a manner that is organic and when the twist finally happens it doesn't come out of nowhere. As for your argument that Sansa is undermining Jon's authority in front of all the Northern Lords and Ladies to fool LF that's just plain stupid and bad writing. There's a zillion other ways for her to fool LF.    And besides what does she get by doing this act when she still privately snubs LF and tells him to f..k off? If she wants to get rid of LF all she needs to do is get Yohn Royce on board and that shouldn't be hard if she's actually the player everyone keeps saying she is. Your argument of Sansa undermining Jon in public and appearing to the audience as a complete idiot in the process only so that the writers can in the end surprise and shock the viewers is simply put very bad writing. But since D&D are bad writers who think shock and awe (no matter how illogical) is great storytelling, I wouldn't be surprised if they do what you suggest. 

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3 hours ago, Ser Quork said:

Unfortunately, the show has established a different fact - you can go around Moat Cailin (according to Brienne). :bang:  And she did. :/

Roose Bolton also managed to sneak around Moat Cailin.

More to the point: There is a difference between small groups of people sneaking around a fortress and a large army capable of taking Winterfell doing the same.

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Didn’t the entire Vale army march through Moat Cailin last season with no problems while it was occupied by Bolton forces and Ramsey didn’t even hear about it?

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Just now, mnedel said:

Didn’t the entire Vale army march through Moat Cailin last season with no problems while it was occupied by Bolton forces and Ramsey didn’t even hear about it?

Ramsay was terribly uninformed person, only one who didn´t have a Westerosi twitter.  

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Moat Cailin was presented as almost unbreakable from the south (in the show too, not just the book). It was manned by Bolton forces. It should have been a hard and costly battle for the Vale army to take it. All fortresses also have ravens that they should have sent to Winterfell the moment the Vale army appeared. So yes, the fact that the Vale army just went through Moat Cailin and Ramsey wasn’t even notified about it makes no sense. The writhers made a double error on this one.

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Something just occurred to me:

They are discussing the repopulation of every fortification in the North, right?

What about the Dreadfort? Wasn't it, like, the 2nd biggest castle in the north, and stuff?

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13 minutes ago, mnedel said:

Didn’t the entire Vale army march through Moat Cailin last season with no problems while it was occupied by Bolton forces and Ramsey didn’t even hear about it?

I forgot that one! :lol:

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14 minutes ago, mnedel said:

Didn’t the entire Vale army march through Moat Cailin last season with no problems while it was occupied by Bolton forces and Ramsey didn’t even hear about it?

That is a good point. I had totally forgotten all about that.

Maybe the Vale sailed their army to the north of Moat Cailin, sidestepping the need to attack it?

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I am not 100% sure but I think they explicitly stated in the show that they came by Moat Cailin and not by see.

Found this link. Look at the 4th post from top.

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