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Company of the Rose?

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On 7/21/2017 at 9:24 AM, cpg2016 said:

We don't know anything.  I think this was just some worldbuilding detail GRRM threw into the WOIAF.  Unlike the Golden Company, they're voluntary exiles, and they've also been in Essos a lot longer (e.g. more time to "go native").

I think that if they had some role to play, they'd have been mentioned by now in the mainline books.

What do you mean "Just" worldbuilding!!!! This is the westeros forum. This must be dissected at length. I mean, they have "Rose" in the company name, and Lyanna was given a crown of roses by the prince at harrenhal.  How many other rose connections are there?  The Tyrells standard is a rose.  THERE MUST BE A CONNECTION HERE!!!!1!!!!11!!!!!ONE!!!ELEVEN!!!!!!!!!!
I bet this company is where Benjen, Dario and Euron go when they are bored with being every other character in the books. I bet Mance is occasionally warged by bloodraven to go fight with them. It is known

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1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I think fortifying more of the North likely had something to do with the Others, or since TS is closer to the coast with making sure the Ironborn stayed where they belonged.

The Wall, or walls, are definitely about the Others. And it's possible that Torrhen got some kind of info from Aegon (that we don't know about) regarding a coming Targaryen prince who would save the world from the return of said icy jerks from Farther North, and that's part of why he cooperated. He had plenty of motivation in not having the North's population decimated by dragonfire, but add in the fact that they didn't know when the Others would return, the fact that the North is the first line of defense should the Night's Watch fail--and greatest supporters of the NW--and then fold in a heaping handful of promised prince, and you've got a compelling argument for playing let's make a deal.

Torrhen couldn't have said much about a bunch of his people leaving. If they'd straight out rebelled then it would have been different, but a migration elsewhere he couldn't stop. It's doubtful that they asked his permission anyway. We don't know how many left, or how long it took them to do so. Could have been gradual, so as to keep public comment to a minimum. And it may not have been a large enough chunk that many noticed. Given the reason they had, it's likely that entire families were involved, much like when Aenar Targaryen left Valyria. If you don't have stray relatives left to gossip about where people went and why they left, the news won't spread as quickly. 

It would be pretty cool if one of those extinct Northern families turns out to be alive and well with the CotR and comes back.

Well i am greatly curious about that long discussion between Aegon and Brandon Snow to his bro Torrhen all through the night involving Three Maesters. Three Maesters? The Maesters seem more about protecting the North than Old Town. Or something in the North. 

It took Torrhen all night to come to peace. How close was he to still going to war? 

And he may not have been able to do much about it, but im sure he had much to say. He respresents the North and abunch are abandoning him. The North Remembers what? 

This isn't the first encounter i think the North has had with Valyria as i think Hardhome was burned down by the Valyrians for becoming a city north of the wall and breaking the peace. No kings or cities north of the wall. This is what i think brought Valyria to Dragonstone around the same time. So i can't help but wonder what could possibly been talked about by Torrhen and Aegon.

Maybe it was the Prince that was Promised? 

Why was Aegon in such a rush to meet the North? Why not still send an army south while your sisters wheel around and trap Torrhen from running back north and flank him. It wouldn't be hard to lay fire to the Neck with dragons. Aegon didn't want to out right conqueror any body it seems. He only did it when he had to. He even gave Harren the chance to submit. 

Aegon was about more than Conquering westeros imo

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On 2/10/2018 at 7:46 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

Well i am greatly curious about that long discussion between Aegon and Brandon Snow to his bro Torrhen all through the night involving Three Maesters. Three Maesters? The Maesters seem more about protecting the North than Old Town. Or something in the North. 

It took Torrhen all night to come to peace. How close was he to still going to war? 

And he may not have been able to do much about it, but im sure he had much to say. He respresents the North and abunch are abandoning him. The North Remembers what? 

This isn't the first encounter i think the North has had with Valyria as i think Hardhome was burned down by the Valyrians for becoming a city north of the wall and breaking the peace. No kings or cities north of the wall. This is what i think brought Valyria to Dragonstone around the same time. So i can't help but wonder what could possibly been talked about by Torrhen and Aegon.

Maybe it was the Prince that was Promised? 

Why was Aegon in such a rush to meet the North? Why not still send an army south while your sisters wheel around and trap Torrhen from running back north and flank him. It wouldn't be hard to lay fire to the Neck with dragons. Aegon didn't want to out right conqueror any body it seems. He only did it when he had to. He even gave Harren the chance to submit. 

Aegon was about more than Conquering westeros imo

I agree that Aegon had far more in mind than just conquering. I'm sure TPtwP was part of this. 

Hardhome was not "the North" though, it was the Wildlings north of the Wall. Are you thinking that Hardhome breached a pact or treaty that ended the Long Night? If so, why would the Valyrians alone take it down, as opposed to with help from say the North? Why wait until it was a town (or rather as close to one as the Wildlings ever had) instead of preventing it from becoming one? Do you think maybe there's a Wildling story about it that GRRM has been keeping from us to keep from spoiling the surprise? That would be like him. 

I don't think we have any evidence that Hardhome had anything to do with Aenar and company settling near Westeros. The timing isn't all that close, with whatever happened at Hardhome happening about 300 years  B.C. (before Aegon's Conquest) and the Targaryens not moving to Dragonstone until 126 B.C.  This doesn't mean Valyria couldn't have been involved but there's no obvious Targ connection. The ashes reigning down for months afterward suggests volcanic activity was a factor in Hardhome (which is likely why some think it was a dress rehearsal for the Doom).

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3 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I agree that Aegon had far more in mind than just conquering. I'm sure TPtwP was part of this. 

Hardhome was not "the North" though, it was the Wildlings north of the Wall. Are you thinking that Hardhome breached a pact or treaty that ended the Long Night? If so, why would the Valyrians alone take it down, as opposed to with help from say the North? Why wait until it was a town (or rather as close to one as the Wildlings ever had) instead of preventing it from becoming one? Do you think maybe there's a Wildling story about it that GRRM has been keeping from us to keep from spoiling the surprise? That would be like him. 

I don't think we have any evidence that Hardhome had anything to do with Aenar and company settling near Westeros. The timing isn't all that close, with whatever happened at Hardhome happening about 300 years  B.C. (before Aegon's Conquest) and the Targaryens not moving to Dragonstone until 126 B.C.  This doesn't mean Valyria couldn't have been involved but there's no obvious Targ connection. The ashes reigning down for months afterward suggests volcanic activity was a factor in Hardhome (which is likely why some think it was a dress rehearsal for the Doom).

Hardhome-  Hardhome was close to becoming the only true town north of the Wall. Before its destruction 600 years ago.

Dragonstone- Two centuries before the Doom, Valyrians took possession of the island and built a castle upon it, which became the westernmost outpost of the Valyrian Freehold.[1]  ~ 326 BC

Osric Stark was a member of House Stark who became Lord Commander of the Night's Watch around 400 BC. Osric was only ten years old at the time, making him the youngest chosen for that position.[1] Maester Balder wrote The Edge of the World during Osric's rule of sixty years.

 

Yes, Im saying this was part of the pact that ended the long night.

That Osric Stark who became Lord Commander 600 years ago was put in or took down by House Valyrian. So House Stark was involved in some way, just unsure on which side.

1. Beyond the Wall.- Separated by the "Ice" Wall after the long night. 

2. The North (Winterfell etc.)

3. Riverlands.

4. Iron Islands.

5. Vale.

6 Westerlands.

7. Reach

8. Storm Lands

9. Dorne

Aerys II for example only rules 8 out of the 9. Hence he cannot activate the curse placed on Garth's barrow as the Grey King had. 

Im guessing that these were the lands the Grey King ruled from. 

That the Farwyn Islands numbering 13 isn't an accident, but a clue to the path of the Night's King. Who was son of the Grey King, and Brandon Stark. Who also founded House Hightower, who like the Iron Born, predate the first men and were sailors.

Brandon Stark can literally be translated as "Brave one of the Beacon Hill" (Google surnames, not Stark the adj.) So this could be translated as Brandon of the Hightower. He who light's the way, Azor Ahai, Lightbringer. 

That the Blackgate maybe Garth/Ygg, whom the grey king slew to awake fire and dragons from Weirwoods. 

His children bound the dragons to their blood i think.

Note- Hugor had 44 sons.

     Iron Islands 44 total.      - 44 Weirwoods cut down (Nagga's ribbs)

    31 main group.          - 31 Weirwoods cut down (High Heart)

    13 farwyn group.

     7 Largest.

 

Andals invaded 2000 years ago-ish.

1000 years before that, the Brackens poison the Colossal Weirwood of House Blackwood which their dead are buried under (Or sitting on thrones jacked into).

Bloodraven, of House Blackwood and only human in that cave jacked into the Trees. 

(I have an extensive idea on the past, it's time line, and leading up into The Valyian invasion of Westeros, and the Stark take over of House Targaryen during the Dance of the Dragons.- tho still trying to figure out Aegon I. )

Edit- There are kings buried north of the Wall that Mance was looking through their tombs for the Horn of Joramun. What Kings though? Surely not all the kings beyond the wall after the Ice Wall

- The long Night lasted a generation. The war with Blackwoods vs Brackens lasted 1000 years and started 1000 years before Andal Invasion. 

-Durran God's Grief king of 1000 years, vs The Grey King 1007 years.

A generation they say, who's generation? A human generation, or a generation of the Empire of the Dawn?

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11 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Hardhome-  Hardhome was close to becoming the only true town north of the Wall. Before its destruction 600 years ago.

Dragonstone- Two centuries before the Doom, Valyrians took possession of the island and built a castle upon it, which became the westernmost outpost of the Valyrian Freehold.[1]  ~ 326 BC

Osric Stark was a member of House Stark who became Lord Commander of the Night's Watch around 400 BC. Osric was only ten years old at the time, making him the youngest chosen for that position.[1] Maester Balder wrote The Edge of the World during Osric's rule of sixty years.

 

Yes, Im saying this was part of the pact that ended the long night.

That Osric Stark who became Lord Commander 600 years ago was put in or took down by House Valyrian. So House Stark was involved in some way, just unsure on which side.

1. Beyond the Wall.- Separated by the "Ice" Wall after the long night. 

2. The North (Winterfell etc.)

3. Riverlands.

4. Iron Islands.

5. Vale.

6 Westerlands.

7. Reach

8. Storm Lands

9. Dorne

Aerys II for example only rules 8 out of the 9. Hence he cannot activate the curse placed on Garth's barrow as the Grey King had. 

Im guessing that these were the lands the Grey King ruled from. 

That the Farwyn Islands numbering 13 isn't an accident, but a clue to the path of the Night's King. Who was son of the Grey King, and Brandon Stark. Who also founded House Hightower, who like the Iron Born, predate the first men and were sailors.

Brandon Stark can literally be translated as "Brave one of the Beacon Hill" (Google surnames, not Stark the adj.) So this could be translated as Brandon of the Hightower. He who light's the way, Azor Ahai, Lightbringer. 

That the Blackgate maybe Garth/Ygg, whom the grey king slew to awake fire and dragons from Weirwoods. 

His children bound the dragons to their blood i think.

Note- Hugor had 44 sons.

     Iron Islands 44 total.      - 44 Weirwoods cut down (Nagga's ribbs)

    31 main group.          - 31 Weirwoods cut down (High Heart)

    13 farwyn group.

     7 Largest.

 

Andals invaded 2000 years ago-ish.

1000 years before that, the Brackens poison the Colossal Weirwood of House Blackwood which their dead are buried under (Or sitting on thrones jacked into).

Bloodraven, of House Blackwood and only human in that cave jacked into the Trees. 

(I have an extensive idea on the past, it's time line, and leading up into The Valyian invasion of Westeros, and the Stark take over of House Targaryen during the Dance of the Dragons.- tho still trying to figure out Aegon I. )

Edit- There are kings buried north of the Wall that Mance was looking through their tombs for the Horn of Joramun. What Kings though? Surely not all the kings beyond the wall after the Ice Wall

- The long Night lasted a generation. The war with Blackwoods vs Brackens lasted 1000 years and started 1000 years before Andal Invasion. 

-Durran God's Grief king of 1000 years, vs The Grey King 1007 years.

A generation they say, who's generation? A human generation, or a generation of the Empire of the Dawn?

Have you done a thread on all of this? There are some very interesting connections here. 

About Hardhome, yeah: 600 years ago, when it's 300 AC works out to about 300 BC. Which is about 40 years after Osric Stark's death.

Per LC Osric Stark, the Valyrians couldn't have put him in power (as they had no stake in the NW, and the rules preclude anyone from outside messing with their elections). There's no reason to think they took him down either--he lived to the age of 70 which is longer than a lot of Westerosi lived at that time. If the Valyrians were involved in anything north of the Wall, it's more likely that they worked with the NW, and thus potentially with Osric. Could be that a combined effort between the NW and Valyria to discourage Wildling settlements is one source of enmity between the Free Folk and the Watch.

The Valyrians may well have meant to conquer Westeros at some point and just never got around to it. That made it very convenient for Aenar and his friends to have a place that had already been colonized. What better place to avoid the coming Doom than some backwater island on the edge of (in the minds of Valyrians) civilization?

The Andals are supposed to have invaded anywhere from 2,000 to 6,000 years ago. True History splits the difference and calls it 4,000 years ago.

Be careful about name meanings you find online. Some sites are more accurate than others. And many times it depends on the language they credit the origin to. For example Brandon can be "hill" or "high-spirited" with an English origin, but Bran (arguably the root of Brandon) is "raven" with an Irish/Celtic origin. 

Considering how long ago the Wall was considered "finished" it actually could just be Kings Beyond the Wall. Joramun was one of the early kings, perhaps the earliest whose name we know, and there have been who knows how many since him. Since the horn supposedly belonged to Joramun, it makes sense to be searching graves dug since his time, and he was a contemporary of Night's King.

As I said, interesting connections. I'd love to see you put this all together in one comprehensive thread or series of threads.

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5 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Have you done a thread on all of this? There are some very interesting connections here. 

About Hardhome, yeah: 600 years ago, when it's 300 AC works out to about 300 BC. Which is about 40 years after Osric Stark's death.

Per LC Osric Stark, the Valyrians couldn't have put him in power (as they had no stake in the NW, and the rules preclude anyone from outside messing with their elections). There's no reason to think they took him down either--he lived to the age of 70 which is longer than a lot of Westerosi lived at that time. If the Valyrians were involved in anything north of the Wall, it's more likely that they worked with the NW, and thus potentially with Osric. Could be that a combined effort between the NW and Valyria to discourage Wildling settlements is one source of enmity between the Free Folk and the Watch.

The Valyrians may well have meant to conquer Westeros at some point and just never got around to it. That made it very convenient for Aenar and his friends to have a place that had already been colonized. What better place to avoid the coming Doom than some backwater island on the edge of (in the minds of Valyrians) civilization?

The Andals are supposed to have invaded anywhere from 2,000 to 6,000 years ago. True History splits the difference and calls it 4,000 years ago.

Be careful about name meanings you find online. Some sites are more accurate than others. And many times it depends on the language they credit the origin to. For example Brandon can be "hill" or "high-spirited" with an English origin, but Bran (arguably the root of Brandon) is "raven" with an Irish/Celtic origin. 

Considering how long ago the Wall was considered "finished" it actually could just be Kings Beyond the Wall. Joramun was one of the early kings, perhaps the earliest whose name we know, and there have been who knows how many since him. Since the horn supposedly belonged to Joramun, it makes sense to be searching graves dug since his time, and he was a contemporary of Night's King.

As I said, interesting connections. I'd love to see you put this all together in one comprehensive thread or series of threads.

Well 40 years is a small number and hundreds of years ago probably isn't an exact number, which is why i include him in the account of histories. Judging between these two, Osric reign ended with the Valyrians. Maybe he died against the wildlings, or because of Valryians. Id go with wildlings.

and yea i've done up some threads touching upon these things but anytime i try and do a large thread including everything, people complain that its too long haha   

And Brandon is not Celtic in origin, it's English in origin. 

English Meaning: The name Brandon is an English baby name. In English themeaning of the name Brandon is: Derived from a surname and place name based on the Old English for 'hill covered with broom'. Broom is a prolific weed. Also, 'From the beacon hill'.

From Brendanus, the Latinized form of the Irish name Bréanainn which was derived from a Welsh word meaning "prince". Saint Brendan was a 6th-century Irish abbot who, according to legend, crossed the Atlantic and reached North America with 17 other monks.- This is maybe what you were thinking of? 

Kind of a fan of phonetics and and root word origins. 

And as far as andal invasion? True History is wrong. You can use other event's to date it. Like the fact that Ser Artys Arryn was the first to wear the falcon crown, forged 1000 years before Aegon's landing in Old Town. The same time the Andals were conquering Old Town and building the Starry Sept. Why is Artys being crowned in Old Town 1300 years ago? 2000 years ago is when the Andals Invaded.

 

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - Jaime I

"When did all this happen?"

"Five hundred years before the Andals. A thousand, if the True History is to be believed. Only no one knows when the Andals crossed the narrow sea. The True History says four thousand years have passed since then, but some maesters claim that it was only two. Past a certain point, all the dates grow hazy and confused, and the clarity of history becomes the fog of legend."

 

 

Quote

 

A Feast for Crows - Prologue

The Lord's Sept joined in a moment later, then the Seven Shrines from their gardens across the Honeywine, and finally the Starry Sept that had been the seat of the High Septon for a thousand years before Aegon landed at King's Landing. 

 

 

Quote

 

The World of Ice and Fire - The Reach: Oldtown

When the Andals came, the Hightowers were amongst the first lords of Westeros to welcome them. "Wars are bad for trade," said Lord Dorian Hightower, when he set aside his wife of twenty years, the mother of his children, to take an Andal princess as his bride. His grandson Lord Damon (the Devout) was the first to accept the Faith. To honor the new gods, he built the first sept in Oldtown and six more elsewhere in his realm. When he died prematurely of a bad belly, Septon Robeson became regent for his newborn son, ruling Oldtown in all but name for the next twenty years and ultimately becoming the first High Septon. The boy he raised and trained, Lord Triston Hightower, raised the Starry Sept in his honor after his passing.

 

 

Quote

 

The World of Ice and Fire - The Reign of the Dragons: The Conquest

The two queens smiled at one another and exchanged courtesies instead. Then Lady Sharra sent for the three crowns (her own regent's coronet, her son's small crown, and the Falcon Crown of Mountain and Vale that the Arryn kings had worn for a thousand years), and surrendered them to Queen Visenya, along with the swords of her garrison. And it was said afterward that the little king flew thrice about the summit of the Giant's Lance and landed to find himself a little lord. Thus did Visenya Targaryen bring the Vale of Arryn into her brother's realm.

 

 

Quote

 

The World of Ice and Fire - The Vale: House Arryn

The true tale of House Arryn contains neither giants nor griffins nor huge falcons, yet from the day Ser Artys first donned the Falcon Crown to the present, they have rightly held a storied place in the history of the Seven Kingdoms.

 

I can go deeper too but i lose people in the amount of information. The war across the waters with the Starks. The Scouring of Lorath. The age of the Wolf's Den. Ext. 

 

And possibly on the Kings, except for that every King Beyond the Wall that we've heard of the Wildlings banding behind was always to breach past the wall. The wildlings other wise dont follow kings. Unless we debate about the Skane and the Magnar. 

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11 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Have you done a thread on all of this? There are some very interesting connections here. 

About Hardhome, yeah: 600 years ago, when it's 300 AC works out to about 300 BC. Which is about 40 years after Osric Stark's death.

Per LC Osric Stark, the Valyrians couldn't have put him in power (as they had no stake in the NW, and the rules preclude anyone from outside messing with their elections). There's no reason to think they took him down either--he lived to the age of 70 which is longer than a lot of Westerosi lived at that time. If the Valyrians were involved in anything north of the Wall, it's more likely that they worked with the NW, and thus potentially with Osric. Could be that a combined effort between the NW and Valyria to discourage Wildling settlements is one source of enmity between the Free Folk and the Watch.

The Valyrians may well have meant to conquer Westeros at some point and just never got around to it. That made it very convenient for Aenar and his friends to have a place that had already been colonized. What better place to avoid the coming Doom than some backwater island on the edge of (in the minds of Valyrians) civilization?

The Andals are supposed to have invaded anywhere from 2,000 to 6,000 years ago. True History splits the difference and calls it 4,000 years ago.

Be careful about name meanings you find online. Some sites are more accurate than others. And many times it depends on the language they credit the origin to. For example Brandon can be "hill" or "high-spirited" with an English origin, but Bran (arguably the root of Brandon) is "raven" with an Irish/Celtic origin. 

Considering how long ago the Wall was considered "finished" it actually could just be Kings Beyond the Wall. Joramun was one of the early kings, perhaps the earliest whose name we know, and there have been who knows how many since him. Since the horn supposedly belonged to Joramun, it makes sense to be searching graves dug since his time, and he was a contemporary of Night's King.

As I said, interesting connections. I'd love to see you put this all together in one comprehensive thread or series of threads.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/149291-ignore-not-ready-half-my-post-erased-and-have-to-add-back-sorry/

Half it got erased and i had to re edit it all and it just kind of got buried and unfinished as there is a crap ton more evidence to put into it, especially now that i have a theory surrounding Bael and Alysanne's time and a marriage around Aegon's time, leading up to Rhaenyra and the dance of the dragons. Really kind of changed my views of the current history. Though my general thoughts on the past histories such as Andal invasion and all is the same.

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The Company of the Rose, after 300 years, coming back to Westeros to help their fellow northeners in times of need sounds very romantic. After 300 years one could claim they are assimilated into essosi culture already. If we haven't heard from them, neither one of them approaching a POV, a character linked to a POV, and no news whatsoever... Well, one could always say "it may happen - they might return to Westeros", sure, but there are just no clues for that in any place. It's just an incidental mention in the worldbook.

Besides, having them coming back to their original homeland while winter is nearing... Would be kinda dumb. One thing you don't need is a military company that would eat its way through an already food-scarce region.

My assumption is that George planted them there, in this wide picture of a world. Maybe he'll have an use for them sometime, maybe he won't. When I read the worldbook I saw a lot of potential short stories based on asoiaf. The Rose Company might be one of them.

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On 2/11/2018 at 0:24 AM, BRANDON GREYSTARK said:

Why did they name themselves the company of the rose. That sound more like a Reach name for a sellsword company?

Its probably not the flower but the fact they did not kneel. 

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