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Lord Varys

FIRE AND BLOOD Volume 1

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Since we now know that we are going to get that book after all - or rather the first half of the material that was mostly written years ago, stretching from the reign of the Conqueror to the Regency of the Dragonbane - and much sooner than we thought, the question is what you are looking forward the most in that book.

For me it would be the newly written account of the reign of the Old King that has to be in there for the book to actually qualify as a history book. And then there is the complete history of the Dance, of course, and the Regency of Aegon III, a period about which no pretty much nothing but which is supposed to be very interesting and very detailed.

Perhaps the reference to Valyria in the enigmatic blog post indicates that we'll learn more about the Freehold of Valyria and the Targaryens back then, either through some brief prelude or opaque references to more ancient Targaryens in the text. Nobody would complain about that.

The most interesting new aspects of the book should be the detailed stories of the children of the Old King, the whereabouts of the twin daughters of Aegon and Rhaena, and the ultimate fate of their mother. And then there are, of course, the dragons, and details about the reign of Jaehaerys and Alysanne - the First Quarrel, Alyssa Velaryon and the Baratheons, and the Great Council.

This should be a great read indeed. 

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Even though I'd rather be reading TWOW, I'm honestly thrilled to read the first installment of Fire and Blood. I love reading about Westerosi history, and this book is bound to unravel so many mysteries (while likely creating more quite a few more): the quarrels between Jaehaerys and Alysanne, the events of Jacaerys' visit to Winterfell, the six wives of Maegor, possibly even Aegon's incentive for invading Westeros to begin with.

I'm also very curious to see what format this book will take. Will it be done in the same style as TWOIAF, with illustrations, or will it be a regular book? 

I had figured we wouldn't get any new material on Aegon V until after Dunk and Egg was finished, so I didn't think we'd be seeing Fire and Blood for years to come. Hearing that we'll be receiving the first half within the next year or two is an incredibly pleasant surprise. 

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I don t understand why he is writting and releasing this book next year.

Most asoif fans will hate this book simply because he should be writing asoif books instead of this. What is the point of writting complementing books to asoiaf if he doesn t complete the original saga?

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Great news. I wasn't expecting that. I love reading about Westerosi history and the history of the Targaryens is espeially fascinating. 

4 hours ago, divica said:

I don t understand why he is writting and releasing this book next year.

Most asoif fans will hate this book simply because he should be writing asoif books instead of this. What is the point of writting complementing books to asoiaf if he doesn t complete the original saga?

From what I understand Fire and Blood doesn't include much newly written material. He has written most of the stuff years ago, but it only gets published now. The published versions of The Princess and the Queen and The Rogue Prince are abridged versions he has longer material for both stories. We also know that he wrote tons of other material about the Targaryens years ago, so he didn't exactly write Fire and Blood instead of TWOW. 

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4 hours ago, divica said:

I don t understand why he is writting and releasing this book next year.

Most asoif fans will hate this book simply because he should be writing asoif books instead of this. What is the point of writting complementing books to asoiaf if he doesn t complete the original saga?

The material for this book was mostly written years ago, GRRM is just realeasing it. And writing TWOW is much different than writing things like TWOIAF and Fire and Blood.

So IMO we should be happy that during those 'bad days' as he calls them - the time  when he's unable to work on Winds, as every writer has those days from time to time -  especially when you're writing one of the most anticipated books ever ' - GRRM still tries to write something else about Westeros.

If he's just decided to listen to some fans who call him very inapropriate names when he even 'dares' to mention any part of his life besides writing TWOW or some of his other projects, we wouldn't get: Dunk and Egg, The World of Ice and FireId any sample chapters, Sons of the Dragon and now Fire and Blood...

Honestly, if I were him I'd be already so annoyed by some fans, that I'd sit quiet for those 7 or 8 years since 2011 and don't utter one word about ASOIAF.

And this time of the long wait for Winds would be even worse.

 

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9 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Since we now know that we are going to get that book after all - or rather the first half of the material that was mostly written years ago, stretching from the reign of the Conqueror to the Regency of the Dragonbane - and much sooner than we thought, the question is what you are looking forward the most in that book.

For me it would be the newly written account of the reign of the Old King that has to be in there for the book to actually qualify as a history book. And then there is the complete history of the Dance, of course, and the Regency of Aegon III, a period about which no pretty much nothing but which is supposed to be very interesting and very detailed.

Perhaps the reference to Valyria in the enigmatic blog post indicates that we'll learn more about the Freehold of Valyria and the Targaryens back then, either through some brief prelude or opaque references to more ancient Targaryens in the text. Nobody would complain about that.

The most interesting new aspects of the book should be the detailed stories of the children of the Old King, the whereabouts of the twin daughters of Aegon and Rhaena, and the ultimate fate of their mother. And then there are, of course, the dragons, and details about the reign of Jaehaerys and Alysanne - the First Quarrel, Alyssa Velaryon and the Baratheons, and the Great Council.

This should be a great read indeed. 

I love the Targaryens.  I look forward to every new information about dragons and Valyria.

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4 hours ago, Blue Tiger said:

The material for this book was mostly written years ago, GRRM is just realeasing it. And writing TWOW is much different than writing things like TWOIAF and Fire and Blood.

So IMO we should be happy that during those 'bad days' as he calls them - the time  when he's unable to work on Winds, as every writer has those days from time to time -  especially when you're writing one of the most anticipated books ever ' - GRRM still tries to write something else about Westeros.

If he's just decided to listen to some fans who call him very inapropriate names when he even 'dares' to mention any part of his life besides writing TWOW or some of his other projects, we wouldn't get: Dunk and Egg, The World of Ice and FireId any sample chapters, Sons of the Dragon and now Fire and Blood...

Honestly, if I were him I'd be already so annoyed by some fans, that I'd sit quiet for those 7 or 8 years since 2011 and don't utter one word about ASOIAF.

And this time of the long wait for Winds would be even worse.

 

The problem with that is you are assuming he only works on other projects on his bad days...

I am sorry but he has so many projects that it simply isn t possible. Then there is the fact he has taken more than 6 yeas to write a book. I understand that you  respect grrm, but seeing him gallivating around and hearing about all his projects just shows people how little he is concerned about twow...  I think it would really be better he would stay quiet because we could at least imagine that he is arduoslly working on twow...

And if you add the fact that it is very probable grrm will need more books to finish asoiaf and refuses to take a co author to help him finish them in an aceptable timetable shows even more how much he cares

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This was very exciting news to wake up to this morning! I am delighted that we will be getting The Sons of the Dragon in October, and the fact that Fire & Blood is going to be two whole volumes is smashing. Two whole books of Westeros and Targaryens, fantastic! 

And we might even be getting TWOW next year, well that is exciting. 

I'm really looking forward to learning more about the Targaryen dynasty and the characters whose names we only know through family trees etc. Jaehaerys & Allysanne for instance, and I am looking forward to the little snippets of magic and mythology which will undoubtedly crop up maybe and I hope this above all else I think; we might learn a little bit more about TPTWP prophesey? And I am hoping we meet Septon Barth!  

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27 minutes ago, divica said:

The problem with that is you are assuming he only works on other projects on his bad days...

I am sorry but he has so many projects that it simply isn t possible. Then there is the fact he has taken more than 6 yeas to write a book. I understand that you  respect grrm, but seeing him gallivating around and hearing about all his projects just shows people how little he is concerned about twow...  I think it would really be better he would stay quiet because we could at least imagine that he is arduoslly working on twow...

And if you add the fact that it is very probable grrm will need more books to finish asoiaf and refuses to take a co author to help him finish them in an aceptable timetable shows even more how much he cares

Why should he do it? It's his magnum opus, his 'child'... The timetable...  Acceptable for whom? You? Me? What is an acceptable timetable? Tolkien worked 12 years on LOTR... and never finished Silmarillion...And both of this books are much shorter than ASOIAF (I believe some of ASOIAF books are longer than entire LOTR, which has around 470 000 words)... 7 years of writing process isn't unheard of whe you're wrting one of the most complex novels in fantasy genre's history...

Honestly, IMO it's a miracle that after all this backlash, joking about his death etc. GRRM didn't say 'f *** you' to all of his fans. He even considers it his duty to finish ASOIAF... and I don't see how giving updates from time to time is better than staying quiet... or would you prefer to see him telling lies? IMO we just have to accept that 'end of TWOW is still months away'.

And GRRM has every right to lead normal life and do other stuff he enjoys... or does somebody force you to read his Not a Blog and read all this stuff about Wild Cards?

Edited by Blue Tiger

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3 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said:

Why should he do it? It's his magnum opus, his 'child'... The timetable...  Acceptable for whom? You? Me? What is an acceptable timetable? Tolkien worked 12 years on LOTR... and never finished Silmarillion... 7 years of writing process isn't unheard of whe you're wrting one of the most complex novels in fantasy genre's history...

 

You are rigth, 7 years isn t unheard of, but very uncommon. But taking 17 years or more to write 3 books is too much...  And the series isn t even finished after those 3 books.

And your argument about tolkien is complete manipulation. Between the hobbit and the fellowship of the ring there were 17 years, but they are different series. In reality he finished the lotr series within 2 years. TWO years. And lotr was his asoiaf, if he had been writing silmarillion before finishing the series and died before completing the return of the king how bad would it be? That is what grrm is doing with this book.

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14 minutes ago, divica said:

You are rigth, 7 years isn t unheard of, but very uncommon. But taking 17 years or more to write 3 books is too much...  And the series isn t even finished after those 3 books.

And your argument about tolkien is complete manipulation. Between the hobbit and the fellowship of the ring there were 17 years, but they are different series. In reality he finished the lotr series within 2 years. TWO years. And lotr was his asoiaf, if he had been writing silmarillion before finishing the series and died before completing the return of the king how bad would it be? That is what grrm is doing with this book.

Manipulation? It looks as if you're the one who tries to manipulate facts here.

I've said nothing about Hobbit. I've said that it took 12 years of writing process to finish LOTR. I've read The Letter of JRR Tolkien and it was 12 years. That was an example that a book with 450 000 words could take 12 years. And even one volume of ASOIAF can be longer than that.

And yes, final LOTR book was published not so long after the first, but I was not talking about when they were published, I was talking about how long they took to write.

And the next time you insult me, be aware that I'll have it reported. 
 

I'll not tolerate being accused of manipulation anybody

Edit: It's quite obvious that I won't change your opinion - and you won't change mine. So let's stop trading insults at me, you, GRRM or anybody else and just focus on what this thread is about, the Targaryne history book Fire and Blood.

Edited by Blue Tiger

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The only part of the first volume of FIRE AND BLOOD that was unwritten back when George produced all the unpublished material while he was still working on ADwD is a detailed account on Jaehaerys I and Alysanne.

That's something he is going to do or has already done. Considering that they are making plans when to publish this book it is pretty likely he has already finished that or is about to do so. I expect this to be about as long as the account on the Dance or the Regency of Aegon III. Jaehaerys I may have had a peaceful reign but he had many children - and I want to know about them all, not just the nine that lived to adulthood but also the five others who died before turning sixteen (some may have been stillborn or died in the cradle, but others could have lived to the age of ten, or twelve, or even 14-15) implemented quite a few reforms, had a rather interesting early reign, with his mother Alyssa serving as Queen Regent and his future stepfather Robar Baratheon as Protector of the Realm and Hand of the King. And then there are the succession crises at the end of his reign, both in 92 AC and 101 AC. One cannot expect much warfare and violence during that era, but still quite a few plots, conspiracies, etc.

The story of the treasonous Grand Maester Hareth could have taken place during the reign of Jaehaerys I, for instance. And we know that Lucamore the Lusty was sent to the Wall during the reign of Jaehaerys I, too. 

George has written hundreds of thousands of words for TWoIaF while working on ADwD. Writing this historical stuff is not that difficult in comparison to writing the chapters of the series.

The stories of Aenys I and Maegor the Cruel should be known to us all in unabridged or only slightly abridged form in October this year with the publication of 'The Sons of the Dragon'.

The completely unknown parts of the history are very much the Regency of Aegon III and the aftermath of the Dance where a lot of stuff happened that was covered by George in as much detail as the Dance itself.

The earlier pieces - the Conquest, the reign of the Conqueror, and the stories of Aenys and Maegor are somewhat more broad overviews. We get important events, and even important or famed conversations and confrontations but the prelude to the Dance and the Dance itself are really broad historical accounts, covering not only key elements in the lives of the royals but also the plots and machinations of the nobles of the Realm at large, and that trend very much continues during the Regency era.

If George sticks to that method when writing this histories of the later kings we could expect a lot of detailed accounts on the lives of the Young Dragon, Baelor the Blessed, the Unworthy, and Daeron I and the First Blackfyre Rebellion.

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I think the problem with TWOW is simply that he should stop pretending he has any interest in writing it. He doesn't, and that's fine, it's his talent, his life and his books, he can do whatever he wants with all of them.

But he clearly prefers to do anything that's not writing TWOW, and I think at least he should be clear on that.

In any case, if you have any hope you'll see the ending of this story in the books by his own hand, just drop it. You won't

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11 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said:

Manipulation? It looks as if you're the one who tries to manipulate facts here.

I've said nothing about Hobbit. I've said that it took 12 years of writing process to finish LOTR. I've read The Letter of JRR Tolkien and it was 12 years. That was an example that a book with 450 000 words could take 12 years. And even one volume of ASOIAF can be longer than that.

And yes, final LOTR book was published not so long after the first, but I was not talking about when they were published, I was talking about how long they took to write.

And the next time you insult me, be aware that I'll have it reported. 
 

I'll not tolerate being accused of manipulation anybody

Edit: It's quite obvious that I won't change your opinion - and you won't change mine. So let's stop trading insults at me, you, GRRM or anybody else and just focus on what this thread is about, the Targaryne history book Fire and Blood.

I appologize for making you feel ofended and I don t want to trade insults...

But again, 12 years to write lotr isn t the same as 12 years to write a book. He took 12 years to write 3 books (or 6 because I think the were inteded to be sold as 6 books instead of 3). At worst it is about 4 years per book...

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1 minute ago, divica said:

I appologize for making you feel ofended and I don t want to trade insults...

But again, 12 years to write lotr isn t the same as 12 years to write a book. He took 12 years to write 3 books (or 6 because I think the were inteded to be sold as 6 books instead of 3). At worst it is about 4 years per book...

Sorry, no need to apologize... I've seen so many people insulting GRRM that now I can get really angry with anybody who merely appears to disrespect him, and I shouldn't take this so personally... So, sorry.

But we have to take a look at lenght:

http://lotrproject.com/statistics/books/wordscount

Quote

The Fellowship of the Ring: about 200 000

The Two Towers: about 170 000

The Return of the Kings: about 150 000 words

ASOIAF: http://cesspit.net/drupal/node/1869/

Quote

A Song of Ice And Fire – George R. R. Martin

A Game of Thrones: 298k
A Clash of kings: 326k
A Storm of Swords: 424k
A Feast for Crows: 300k
A Dance with Dragons: 422k

Total: 1M 770k

But you're right, LOTR and ASOIAF are very different books, so maybe we shouldn't compare them.

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This should give us more than a few interesting and informative backstory.  We may even get a foreshadowing of Dany's birth.  Many questions will not be answered within the novels themselves but these supplemental materials will fill in the gaps.

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3 hours ago, The Egg said:

I think the problem with TWOW is simply that he should stop pretending he has any interest in writing it. He doesn't, and that's fine, it's his talent, his life and his books, he can do whatever he wants with all of them.

But he clearly prefers to do anything that's not writing TWOW, and I think at least he should be clear on that.

In any case, if you have any hope you'll see the ending of this story in the books by his own hand, just drop it. You won't

I think the problem with posts like yours is that you don't have a crystal ball and you don't know the future and you don't know anything about GRRM's motivations or work habits.  All you have done is insert some baseless and unsupported assumptions of your own and attempted to present them as fact.    

Personally I'm excited about the release of Fire and Blood and I am sure it will contain some great information and characters but I'm not going to try to anticipate what will be in there.  Any events in the history of the Targaryens in Westeros will be vague with information that is still important in Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring.  For example, I am excited to know more about the events that took place in Summerhall but I think that the upcoming books and/or planned Dunk and Egg stories will focus on that aspect of Targaryen history so those parts will likely remain vague in a book like Fire and Blood. 

Edited by White Ravens

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Most of the time, in fact, in all cases that I am familiar with, authors write the side books and the 'histories' after they have finished the primary story, not before, and not instead.  It is to me very, very suggestive that the author has lost interest in the primary story or is otherwise stuck again. So, I can't say I feel much of a thrill about Fire and Blood, there are some elements of the Targ/Valyira back story that I am interested in, so there's that, I guess.  I would much rather see the author finish A Song of Ice and Fire, as I suspect is the case with most of his fans.

Edited by Cas Stark

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2015: "I am cancelling the rest of my 2015 appearances to concentrate on and complete the Winds of Winter.
2017: We may have a book next year, but it may or may not be winds. Btw here is MOAR WILDCARDS!!!!!!

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