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Lord Varys

FIRE AND BLOOD Volume 1

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1 minute ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

2015: "I am cancelling the rest of my 2015 appearances to concentrate on and complete the Winds of Winter.
2017: We may have a book next year, but it may or may not be winds. Btw here is MOAR WILDCARDS!!!!!!

aparently he had enough bad days to write wild cards and fire and blood, twoiaf and even be involved in 5 spinoffs...

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25 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Most of the time, in fact, in all cases that I am familiar with, authors write the side books and the 'histories' after they have finished the primary story, not before, and not instead.  It is to me very, very suggestive that the author has lost interest in the primary story or is otherwise stuck again. So, I can't say I feel much of a thrill about Fire and Blood, there are some elements of the Targ/Valyira back story that I am interested in, so there's that, I guess.  I would much rather see the author finish A Song of Ice and Fire, as I suspect is the case with most of his fans.

George is just a slow writer. If he had lost interest he would tell us. And quite honestly, if I were George I'd feel no obligation to anyone but myself to finish this thing. If I felt I owed it to myself to do nothing and enjoy the remainder of my life with what I want to do, fine. But he clearly is not me in that regard. He really wants to finish this thing. But the way he writes makes this whole thing just very hard.

As to the FIRE AND BLOOD:

I hope we get some sort of stylized medieval book illuminations in there, highly formalized stuff mostly depicting the various royal families of the different ages. They could come up with certain features and attributes marking the kings, queens, heirs apparent (and the real successors), etc.

One could imagine such a picture showing Aegon and his sister-wives with Orys Baratheon and Daemon and Aethon Velaryon prior to the Conquest, another with Aegon, Visenya, and young Aenys and Maegor (perhaps even with an ethereal Rhaenys in the background), another with the aging Conqueror, Aenys and Alyssa and their young children, set in contrast to Visenya, Maegor, and Ceryse.

Then another one with Aenys I as king and Alyssa as queen, with Maegor, Visenya, Rhaena, Aegon, Viserys, Jaehaerys, and Alysanne. Maegor as king with his six wives, his aging mother, and Alyssa and her sons and daughter opposed to him. A young Jaehaerys I and Alysanne with Alyssa as Queen Regent and Robar Baratheon as Lord Protector and Hand, alongside Rhaena and her twin daughters.

Another one with them in the middle age, surrounded by all their children, and then a final one in their old age with their grandchildren and great-grandchildren at odds with each other.

And so on.

As to the content, I think we should get some more information on the Valyrian and Dragonstonian Targaryens simply to make this book have more original content. It will contain the unabridged versions of the Dance, etc. but with TSotD coming in October the only really new content should be the account on the Regency as well as more details on the reign of Jaehaerys I. Getting an account of the Century of Blood from a Targaryen perspective and a glimpse of some important Targaryens back in Valyria (assuming some of them distinguished themselves during the Ghiscari Wars, the wars against the Rhoynar, etc.) would be greatly appreciated, as would be information on whatever legends are floating around about the founder of the Targaryen line? Were the among the first dragonlords? Or is their houses actually merely the cadet branch of another or are they even new men, becoming dragonlords because they ended up marrying the bastard daughter of some other dragonlord?

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Just now, Lord Varys said:

George is just a slow writer. If he had lost interest he would tell us. And quite honestly, if I were George I'd feel no obligation to anyone but myself to finish this thing. If I felt I owed it to myself to do nothing and enjoy the remainder of my life with what I want to do, fine. But he clearly is not me in that regard. He really wants to finish this thing. But the way he writes makes this whole thing just very hard.

As to the FIRE AND BLOOD:

I hope we get some sort of stylized medieval book illuminations in there, highly formalized stuff mostly depicting the various royal families of the different ages. They could come up with certain features and attributes marking the kings, queens, heirs apparent (and the real successors), etc.

One could imagine such a picture showing Aegon and his sister-wives with Orys Baratheon and Daemon and Aethon Velaryon prior to the Conquest, another with Aegon, Visenya, and young Aenys and Maegor (perhaps even with an ethereal Rhaenys in the background), another with the aging Conqueror, Aenys and Alyssa and their young children, set in contrast to Visenya, Maegor, and Ceryse.

Then another one with Aenys I as king and Alyssa as queen, with Maegor, Visenya, Rhaena, Aegon, Viserys, Jaehaerys, and Alysanne. Maegor as king with his six wives, his aging mother, and Alyssa and her sons and daughter opposed to him. A young Jaehaerys I and Alysanne with Alyssa as Queen Regent and Robar Baratheon as Lord Protector and Hand, alongside Rhaena and her twin daughters.

Another one with them in the middle age, surrounded by all their children, and then a final one in their old age with their grandchildren and great-grandchildren at odds with each other.

And so on.

As to the content, I think we should get some more information on the Valyrian and Dragonstonian Targaryens simply to make this book have more original content. It will contain the unabridged versions of the Dance, etc. but with TSotD coming in October the only really new content should be the account on the Regency as well as more details on the reign of Jaehaerys I. Getting an account of the Century of Blood from a Targaryen perspective and a glimpse of some important Targaryens back in Valyria (assuming some of them distinguished themselves during the Ghiscari Wars, the wars against the Rhoynar, etc.) would be greatly appreciated, as would be information on whatever legends are floating around about the founder of the Targaryen line? Were the among the first dragonlords? Or is their houses actually merely the cadet branch of another or are they even new men, becoming dragonlords because they ended up marrying the bastard daughter of some other dragonlord?

My impression is that the author has a tough time facing hard truths, and the hard truth that I see is that he either is so lost in the many plot threads he created he can't write his way out or he has completely lost interest in the story, the result is the same, though, no ending in sight.

I wasn't that impressed with the World Book or the Queen novella....so, I have not much reason to be excited about Fire and Blood, and probably by the time it comes out the show will be over and my questions on who lives/who dies in the series will be answered.  And that will be a wrap.

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I'd like to see more information on the Targs of Valyria and Dragonstone. I'd also rather something closer to an ASOIAF sized book than to TWOIAF.

I would hope it would include Aegon III's entire reign, but I have a feeling the second volume is going to pick up with the return of Viserys, and portray his involvement in the reigns of Aegon III, Daeron I, and Baelor I, his own short reign, and the line that continued through him.

 

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20 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

George is just a slow writer. If he had lost interest he would tell us. And quite honestly, if I were George I'd feel no obligation to anyone but myself to finish this thing.

While it is fun and enjoyable to read the false history about the Targs it does nothing for ASOIAF unless it clears up the BR and Rhaegar mess.

I am sincerely asking; a reader buys Martin’s A Game of Thrones and gets into the story only to find out that half of the information is missing.

Not only is half the information missing Martin refuses to release the information.

Unless a person is an obsessed fan of this never ending story the person is not going to purchase all the extra material. If Martin wants to leave a footprint his ASOIAF story must stand alone. His story is not going to stand alone until he releases the next two books. In the meantime I am not using the app, nor am I buying the coffee table book.

Dunk and Egg was fun. Adventures that supplied information about BR who the reader doesn't meet until ASOIAF book five The person who randomly pick's up the A Game of Throne and reads all five books is not going to know who Bran meets in the CotF cave.

Even Blood & Fire I is not going to address how Blodraven got into that cave, is it?

 

 

 

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First of all, I want to hear more about Daenys, and how the first generations on Dragonstone got along with the Westerosi mainland and slowly accepted their way of life (adopting the Seven, giving up slavery etc.), though I suppose that the book will cover this period only very briefly.

I hope to learn more of Jaehaerys and Alysanne's children. There seem to be a couple of well-characterized Targaryens in every generation except this one. They are still in the shadow of their parents.

I'd like to hear more of the Targaryens's interactions with the Starks and the North. I'd love a detailed account of J&A's visit to Winterfell and the Wall and whatever fight there took place with the wildlings. Then there's Jaecerys and the rumors of his alleged romance with Cregan's bastard sister (as per Ran's interview). We could also learn if there's any good basis behind the in-world suspicion that Jace's dragon laid eggs there while visiting. It would be a bit strange that nobody has found them, but I'm loving the idea of some other dragon eggs being protected from changing into stone by the hot springs on the WF premises (there must be some point to the fact that the hot springs have the same source as the Fourteen Flames of Valyria, no?).

I want to know what the hell was going on with Alys Rivers. She was pregnant when Aemond and Daemon had their fight; there's got be a child and some sort of a story. Not to mention, Aemond was an arrogant and ambitious idiot - how did he end up referring to his lowborn lover as "my lady"? And what of his Baratheon betrothed?

Last thing that comes to mind: into which families did Rhaena of Pentos' numerous daughters married? And I'd like to find out what Baela and Alyn's relationship was like. They came from vastly different backgrounds.

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8 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

While it is fun and enjoyable to read the false history about the Targs it does nothing for ASOIAF unless it clears up the BR and Rhaegar mess.

I am sincerely asking; a reader buys Martin’s A Game of Thrones and gets into the story only to find out that half of the information is missing.

 

Not only is half the information missing Martin refuses to release the information.

Unless a person is an obsessed fan of this never ending story the person is not going to purchase all the extra material. If Martin wants to leave a footprint his ASOIAF story must stand alone. His story is not going to stand alone until he releases the next two books. In the meantime I am not using the app, nor am I buying the coffee table book.

Dunk and Egg was fun. Adventures that supplied information about BR who the reader doesn't meet until ASOIAF book five The person who randomly pick's up the A Game of Throne and reads all five books is not going to know who Bran meets in the CotF cave.

Even Blood & Fire I is not going to address how Blodraven got into that cave, is it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, some of us enjoy to read and speculate about the history of the ASoIaF universe by itself, not because it answers pressing questions from the main series. We're likely a minority, but, well, to each their own, no?

Not sure why people come to complain about how it sucks to get BaF instead of TWoW to a thread that is clearly addressed to those that are actually interested in reading BaF. This seems like a better place for that sort of discussion.

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11 minutes ago, lojzelote said:

Well, some of us enjoy to read and speculate about the history of the ASoIaF universe by itself, not because it answers pressing questions from the main series. We're likely a minority, but, well, to each their own, no?

Not sure why people come to complain about how it sucks to get BaF instead of TWoW to a thread that is clearly addressed to those that are actually interested in reading BaF. This seems like a better place for that sort of discussion.

While I can agree with your thoughts I would like to clarify I was not complaining merely expressing an opinion as you were.

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I'd prefer it if you got back on topic because I actually happen to care about that book.

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As much as want to roll my eyes over the thought that more material is going to be released instead of TWOW, as a Targaryen fan I'd be lying through my teeth if I claimed I wasn't going to be buying this on October 10th. I get that "most" of this material was written years ago, and no whining I do is going to get me TWOW any sooner so I'll let it go (for now).

How cool will it be to read a detailed description of the reign of Jaehaerys I? Or in book 2 when we finally learn about the events of the Tragedy at Summerhall? Aegon IV has also become one of my favorites. Everyone loves to hate the guy, but all I hear about him makes him more interesting to me. I want all the juicy details on that guy.

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5 hours ago, White Ravens said:

I think the problem with posts like yours is that you don't have a crystal ball and you don't know the future and you don't know anything about GRRM's motivations or work habits.  All you have done is insert some baseless and unsupported assumptions of your own and attempted to present them as fact.

It's far from baseless unsupported assumptions and you know it. Just read his blog. For example less than two weeks ago he announced that he's an executive producer on an upcoming HBO series, and he spent an afternoon interviewing people to write the script. What does that tell you about his priorities? The show is spoiling his books and meanwhile he's off to work on adapting someone else's novel to television! Not to mention the 5 spinoffs.

I do think he wants to finish TWoW, or more precisely, wants TWoW to be finished. But he's struggling so much he'd rather do anything else than work on it. I think this is crystal clear. Right now he is farther away from finishing than he was two years ago. Obviously he's having big problems. And I don't blame him for it either, I understand exactly where he's coming from. But don't tell me it's so unreasonable to say that he prefers working on other things, or that we won't see the end of the series.

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18 minutes ago, Big Daddy said:

Or in book 2 when we finally learn about the events of the Tragedy at Summerhall?

lol, book two

 

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20 minutes ago, Big Daddy said:

Or in book 2 when we finally learn about the events of the Tragedy at Summerhall?

 

Great question. Will GRRM trick us again with "You know it very well" as he did on world of ice and fire? I think not. He will give some information but not too much material that we are supposed to see in last Dunk and Egg story.

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1 hour ago, SweetPea said:

It's far from baseless unsupported assumptions and you know it. Just read his blog. For example less than two weeks ago he announced that he's an executive producer on an upcoming HBO series, and he spent an afternoon interviewing people to write the script. What does that tell you about his priorities? The show is spoiling his books and meanwhile he's off to work on adapting someone else's novel to television! Not to mention the 5 spinoffs.

I do think he wants to finish TWoW, or more precisely, wants TWoW to be finished. But he's struggling so much he'd rather do anything else than work on it. I think this is crystal clear. Right now he is farther away from finishing than he was two years ago. Obviously he's having big problems. And I don't blame him for it either, I understand exactly where he's coming from. But don't tell me it's so unreasonable to say that he prefers working on other things, or that we won't see the end of the series.

But it is unreasonable for you or any other poster to speak with authority about what GRRM's motivations and priorities are or what the outcome of this series will be. 

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I'm very disappointed. I'm done with asoiaf. I'll start watching the TV show and catch up to watch the last season when it airs. 

MAYBE two books in 2018 (lol) and possibly one of them is this. So maybe no twow until 2019 or who knows when. 

This series will never be finished. Publishers realized it and are trying to cash in with some nes material while they can. That's clear to me. 

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3 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

I'd like to see more information on the Targs of Valyria and Dragonstone. I'd also rather something closer to an ASOIAF sized book than to TWOIAF.

It should actually be a pretty big book, considering the word count of all the texts Ran and Linda got for TWoIaF. And it is not that unlikely that a proper history of the reign of Jaehaerys I is going to add quite a few words to overall thing. It may even be that George expands upon the texts he has already written to deal with some of the inconsistencies, most notably the Dornish Wars conundrum. We have the First Dornish War during the reign of the Conqueror and the apparently untrue claim in Gyldayn's account of the conquest that his sons tried to bring Dorne into the Realm, too. Now, the Vulture Hunt sort of qualifies as a Dornish War but not exactly as a war to subdue Dorne. That is a difference. So he could insert an account of a Dornish War during the 1-2 years of Maegor's Handship under Aenys I. And perhaps another during the reign of Maegor himself, assume there is time for such a thing. Those would have to be short wars, though.

Another thing that has to be rectified (and most likely will, if @Ran sees to it) is the Orwyle-Gerardys conundrum. As I see it, Orwyle is now Gerardys, who was described as the former maester of Dragonstone back in TRP, making it very likely he was Daemon's friend on the Green Council. Gerardys has a Valyrian-sounding name and could work pretty well as a Targaryen bastard.

Grand Maester Hareth's treason might take place during the reign of Maegor, now that I think of it. We know he killed Grand Maester Gowen because he objected against Maegor's ascension and Grand Maester Desmond over the Alys affair. But we have no idea who that third Grand Maester was he executed.

3 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

I would hope it would include Aegon III's entire reign, but I have a feeling the second volume is going to pick up with the return of Viserys, and portray his involvement in the reigns of Aegon III, Daeron I, and Baelor I, his own short reign, and the line that continued through him.

We know that Prince Viserys returns during the account on the Regency, and both Ran and Linda are apparently pretty impressed by his portrayal.

But I'd also like the book to cover the entirety of the reign of the Dragonbane, or at least up until the birth of Prince Daeron and the death of the last dragon. That way we most likely would also learn what happened to the last dragons, how many other dragons hatched during the reign of Aegon III, and who ended up being the last Targaryen who rode and/or bonded with a dragon. And the stories of the three pretenders and the Nine Mages should also be pretty interesting.

3 hours ago, lojzelote said:

First of all, I want to hear more about Daenys, and how the first generations on Dragonstone got along with the Westerosi mainland and slowly accepted their way of life (adopting the Seven, giving up slavery etc.), though I suppose that the book will cover this period only very briefly.

We can hope to get something in that regard.

3 hours ago, lojzelote said:

I hope to learn more of Jaehaerys and Alysanne's children. There seem to be a couple of well-characterized Targaryens in every generation except this one. They are still in the shadow of their parents.

That is because George didn't really flash out the reign of Jaehaerys I. The book will have to deliver on that, and there are very potentially interesting things to tell during that reign. Not so much wars and conflicts but instead plots and schemes, ambitions to get close to the throne, marriage alliances that were made, etc. There are certain hints that Alyssa Velaryon and Robar Baratheon were very influential early on during the reign. Jaehaerys I married his heir Aemon to his own Baratheon half-sister, after all, and named his eldest daughter after his own mother.

And the stories of Archmaester Vaegon, Princess Viserra and her betrothal to Lord Manderly, and Saera should also make for interesting stories, as should the question how well Aemon-Jocelyn and Baelon-Alyssa got along. The decision not to marry the eldest daughter to the eldest son is odd, and could have been the root of the later rivalry between Baelon-Alyssa's sons and Aemon's daughter Rhaenys. And the arrangement of the marriage between Corlys and Rhaenys and Viserys and Aemma Arryn are also pretty interesting. We have theories on all that, but it would be very interesting to learn if they are worth anything.

And the really interesting tidbit would be those seven lesser claimants that were dismissed by the Great Council. Are those all descendants of Aerea and Rhalla? Or did Rhaena marry a third time, after Maegor? Did any bastards of Aenys I come forth during the reign of Jaehaerys I? Were any such people legitimized, eventually presenting their claims during the Great Council? Did Jaehaerys I's sons have any illegitimate children?

And then there is the mystery prince Aegon, younger brother of Viserys I and Daemon. He is in the family tree but never mentioned anywhere.

3 hours ago, lojzelote said:

I'd like to hear more of the Targaryens's interactions with the Starks and the North. I'd love a detailed account of J&A's visit to Winterfell and the Wall and whatever fight there took place with the wildlings.

I think there is a good chance that we'll get an account on that. I doubt the tale Viserys I tells his grandchildren is a complete fabrication.

3 hours ago, lojzelote said:

Then there's Jaecerys and the rumors of his alleged romance with Cregan's bastard sister (as per Ran's interview). We could also learn if there's any good basis behind the in-world suspicion that Jace's dragon laid eggs there while visiting. It would be a bit strange that nobody has found them, but I'm loving the idea of some other dragon eggs being protected from changing into stone by the hot springs on the WF premises (there must be some point to the fact that the hot springs have the same source as the Fourteen Flames of Valyria, no?).

We should hear much more about that, too, considering that's all part of the longer account of the Dance, the text called 'The Death of the Dragons'. And we should also see quite a lot of Cregan Stark during that account as well as during the detailed account on the Hour of the Wolf.

3 hours ago, lojzelote said:

I want to know what the hell was going on with Alys Rivers. She was pregnant when Aemond and Daemon had their fight; there's got be a child and some sort of a story. Not to mention, Aemond was an arrogant and ambitious idiot - how did he end up referring to his lowborn lover as "my lady"? And what of his Baratheon betrothed?

There should be more on that, too. If Alys produced a child we might hear what happened to it during the account on the Regency, although we won't see it grow to adulthood. It could be rather interesting if it ended up in the Kingsguard, or something of that sort. Alys Rivers may turn out to be a Strong bastard - she first shows up while Aemond hangs around at Harrenhal. Perhaps she is a daughter or half-sister of Larys Strong.

It would also be interesting to know whether Lord Borros betrothed the same daughter that was supposed to marry Aemond to Aegon II after the latter's restoration. We know he was supposed marry one such daughter.

3 hours ago, lojzelote said:

Last thing that comes to mind: into which families did Rhaena of Pentos' numerous daughters married? And I'd like to find out what Baela and Alyn's relationship was like. They came from vastly different backgrounds.

We should get the details on both of Rhaena's marriages but unless the book covers - or gives us at least a glimpse on the later reign of Aegon III - it is unlikely that the marriages of those girls are covered. But we should at least learn who the hell Garmund Hightower was, and whether he was the oldest son and heir of Lord Ormund Hightower (which is actually very likely). In that case it might turn out that Oldtown and the Hightower actually passed to Ormund's eldest daughter by Rhaena upon his death. Those girls would all have been of royal blood, after all, making it very likely the Iron Throne would have favored such a Lady of Oldtown over some Hightower cousin. But if Rhaena predeceased her lord husband and the man remarried and got some sons after all things may have turned out differently. In general female inheritance seems to be less of a problem in the Reach where there was at least one queen regnant and where there is a rather forceful Ruling Lady in Arwyn Oakheart right now.

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