[Spoilers] EP702 Discussion

[Nugget1229]

On 7/25/2017 at 1:52 PM, Holly Macaroni said:

As usual, I made an animated recap of this week's episode, for your enjoyment (it's really a ton of work, so, please be gentle )

That was awesome!  Good job!

[BradDoty08]

First post ever!

 

How was there absolutely no mention about Bran in that episode? Or did I just miss it? How in the world was there no raven sent and received by Jon and Sansa that Bran was alive? That's just insane. 

[Daemon the Leaner]

1 hour ago, BradDoty08 said:

First post ever!

 

How was there absolutely no mention about Bran in that episode? Or did I just miss it? How in the world was there no raven sent and received by Jon and Sansa that Bran was alive? That's just insane. 

Welcome!

The lack of Bran plot in that episode is even more surprising if you consider the fact that it took only one single shot for Dany's raven to arrive at Winterfell. If Dolorous Edd would have sent a raven when Bran reached the Wall, then it would have been received by Jon in E02 or earlier. It is awkward. 

Especially when we know what Bran knows about Jon's parentage. What the fuck are D&D doing with Bran's plotline.

[Future Null Infinity]

32 minutes ago, Sandokan I Ironborn said:

Especially when we know what Bran knows about Jon's parentage. What the fuck are D&D doing with Bran's plotline

I have a weird feeling that bran's plotline and jon targaryen's plotline doesn't exist in season 7 and they are the story of season 8

[goomba]

Bran is the new GendryI 

He will be dragged all across Westeros and back by Meera like how Gendry has rowed through all the seas!

[SerChristian]

Maybe a bit off-topic, but wouldn't wildfire be the perfect weapon against the Others and the dead army...?

Edited July 28, 2017 by SerChristian

[Holly Macaroni]

9 hours ago, Nugget1229 said:

That was awesome!  Good job!

thanks! nice to get good feedback

[WolfOfWinter]

9 hours ago, BradDoty08 said:

First post ever!

 

How was there absolutely no mention about Bran in that episode? Or did I just miss it? How in the world was there no raven sent and received by Jon and Sansa that Bran was alive? That's just insane. 

My bet, they're keeping Jon's parentage a secret until after Jon and Dany get close to create drama next season.

[Cron]

On 7/26/2017 at 11:02 PM, no_one_... said:

This hit's a bit of a nerve w/me indirectly.  

The Wildlings had a "Giant" siege engine walking talking potential artillery all in one.  They just forgot to arm him or give him any armor because if they had that entire battle plan of Ramsey would have went to crap w/the Giant using a tree as a flaming Bo Staff if nothing else to smash the shield wall.  Which they basically already showed  a Giant using during Hardhome.   Any type of scaled armor/decent shield and those arrows would have been pin pricks at best, but they wanted/needed to kill him off.  He could have spent the night make iceballs to chuck and he would have been more effect in that battle on the field.

In your scenario, it's Winter they could have melted snow and made a shield out of ice even for him and use that for cover as he breaks the gate,  assuming they didn't want to take the time to make a full length shield out of trees as planks for him.  But, why break the gate when he could chuck things over the gate to let others scale walls/take out archers.  Really, he was the most underutilized/under-protected resource in that entire battle purely for plot reasons.

Yes, I agree with nearly everything you wrote (only thing I would question is the practicality of making a shield for him out of ice, but it would be easy enough to make one out of wood, for sure)

You make many great points.  Last year, I believe, there was an entire topic thread devoted to ways that Wun Wun could have been used MUCH better than he was, and there were LOTS of great ideas.  (I think one of my favorites, in terms of creativity, was just making giant metal shoes for him, and letting him stomp on enemies.  Yes, that would have been devastating.  There were many suggestions related to armor and weapons, lots of which would have been easy and quick to make, especially with so much man-power available to do it)

Having said all that...I still think Ramsay could have easily defended Winterfell if he had done what I said, even if Wun Wun was used to his maximum potential, and even including the Knights of the Vale (as I mentioned above, the KotV are cavalry which means...useless in assaulting a fortified castle, but devastating in the open field against infantry, as they were actually used b/c Ramsay was extremely foolish and let the safety of Winterfell)

Realistically, the only way I could see Jon winning if Ramsay had holed up in Winterfell (with Jon being as lightly armored and undermanned as he was, and with no real siege weapons, ladders, scaling towers, catapults, trebuchets, et cetera), would be a sneak attack, say, with Jon and a few men sneaking in through some passage or entry that only someone who grew up in Winterfell would know about, then they open the gates, and Jon's army pours in during the middle of the night.

In fact, that's what I THOUGHT was going to happen.  But nope.  The "big plan" was simply...full frontal assault in broad daylight, even though Jon's forces were terribly outmanned.  At the risk of repeating myself, I'm not even sure WHAT Jon's plan would have been if Ramsay had holed up in Winterfell.  A sustained siege was NOT an option, they had NO significant food or food supplies on the way, so far as I know.

Bottom line, in my opinion:  Ramsay LOST the Battle of the Bastards a LOT more than Jon WON it, especially given the fact that despite Ramsay's foolishness, Jon STILL would have lost if the KotV had not shown up to save the day.

But hey, the episode WAS a lot of fun to watch, so I enjoyed it anyway.

 

[no_one_...]

2 minutes ago, Cron said:

Yes, I agree with nearly everything you wrote (only thing I would question is the practicality of making a shield for him out of ice, but it would be easy enough to make one out of wood, for sure)

You make many great points.  Last year, I believe, there was an entire topic thread devoted to ways that Wun Wun could have been used MUCH better than he was, and there were LOTS of great ideas.  (I think one of my favorites, in terms of creativity, was just making giant metal shoes for him, and letting him stomp on enemies.  Yes, that would have been devastating.  There were many suggestions related to armor and weapons, lots of which would have been easy and quick to make, especially with so much man-power available to do it)

Having said all that...I still think Ramsay could have easily defended Winterfell if he had done what I said, even if Wun Wun was used to his maximum potential, and even including the Knights of the Vale (as I mentioned above, the KotV are cavalry which means...useless in assaulting a fortified castle, but devastating in the open field against infantry, as they were actually used b/c Ramsay was extremely foolish and let the safety of Winterfell)

Realistically, the only way I could see Jon winning if Ramsay had holed up in Winterfell (with Jon being as lightly armored and undermanned as he was, and with no real siege weapons, ladders, scaling towers, catapults, trebuchets, et cetera), would be a sneak attack, say, with Jon and a few men sneaking in through some passage or entry that only someone who grew up in Winterfell would know about, then they open the gates, and Jon's army pours in during the middle of the night.

In fact, that's what I THOUGHT was going to happen.  But nope.  The "big plan" was simply...full frontal assault in broad daylight, even though Jon's forces were terribly outmanned.  At the risk of repeating myself, I'm not even sure WHAT Jon's plan would have been if Ramsay had holed up in Winterfell.  A sustained siege was NOT an option, they had NO significant food or food supplies on the way, so far as I know.

Bottom line, in my opinion:  Ramsay LOST the Battle of the Bastards a LOT more than Jon WON it, especially given the fact that despite Ramsay's foolishness, Jon STILL would have lost if the KotV had not shown up to save the day.

But hey, the episode WAS a lot of fun to watch, so I enjoyed it anyway.

 

Yeah the ice shield was tongue in cheek along with the iced snow balls.  But, they've already shown him breaking down a door on his own at castle black, he would just need cover to do so.  Not that hard imo.

Also, how many troops would Ramsey really have left?  Other than Bolton and Karstarks weren't most of them killed at the Red Wedding?   They had recently fought Stanis and would have been somewhat depleted from that fight it seemed their numbers held up for show plot reasons more than anything.  It would have been better if Ramsey thought the Vale army was coming to re-enforce him than to have an Army that never seems to run out of troops.

[watcher of the night]

5 hours ago, Cron said:

Yes, I agree with nearly everything you wrote (only thing I would question is the practicality of making a shield for him out of ice, but it would be easy enough to make one out of wood, for sure)

You make many great points.  Last year, I believe, there was an entire topic thread devoted to ways that Wun Wun could have been used MUCH better than he was, and there were LOTS of great ideas.  (I think one of my favorites, in terms of creativity, was just making giant metal shoes for him, and letting him stomp on enemies.  Yes, that would have been devastating.  There were many suggestions related to armor and weapons, lots of which would have been easy and quick to make, especially with so much man-power available to do it)

Having said all that...I still think Ramsay could have easily defended Winterfell if he had done what I said, even if Wun Wun was used to his maximum potential, and even including the Knights of the Vale (as I mentioned above, the KotV are cavalry which means...useless in assaulting a fortified castle, but devastating in the open field against infantry, as they were actually used b/c Ramsay was extremely foolish and let the safety of Winterfell)

Realistically, the only way I could see Jon winning if Ramsay had holed up in Winterfell (with Jon being as lightly armored and undermanned as he was, and with no real siege weapons, ladders, scaling towers, catapults, trebuchets, et cetera), would be a sneak attack, say, with Jon and a few men sneaking in through some passage or entry that only someone who grew up in Winterfell would know about, then they open the gates, and Jon's army pours in during the middle of the night.

In fact, that's what I THOUGHT was going to happen.  But nope.  The "big plan" was simply...full frontal assault in broad daylight, even though Jon's forces were terribly outmanned.  At the risk of repeating myself, I'm not even sure WHAT Jon's plan would have been if Ramsay had holed up in Winterfell.  A sustained siege was NOT an option, they had NO significant food or food supplies on the way, so far as I know.

Bottom line, in my opinion:  Ramsay LOST the Battle of the Bastards a LOT more than Jon WON it, especially given the fact that despite Ramsay's foolishness, Jon STILL would have lost if the KotV had not shown up to save the day.

But hey, the episode WAS a lot of fun to watch, so I enjoyed it anyway.

 

The whole show is bereft of logic. They wanted an epic showdown between Jon and Ramsay where the KtoV can ride in the last second and save the day, so they did it. The whole fight was cringeworty from the point of view of both sides; they fought as 6 or 8 year old kid would imagine a "big fight". But it was cinematic, dramatic and it sold out well.

[Parkourya Stark]

Perhaps there's no Maester at Castle Black now Sam has gone and Maester Aemon has died so nobody can send a raven. Or perhaps it's a plothole. Or perhaps it's deliberate so we get a big reveal from Bran later, just after Jon has left. I'd expect him to have a big role in the coming episodes as he had about 30 secs screen time in 1st episode and nothing in the 2nd.

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

12 minutes ago, Parkourya Stark said:

Perhaps there's no Maester at Castle Black now Sam has gone and Maester Aemon has died so nobody can send a raven

It wouldn't be impossible for Castle Black to have nobody there that can read or write.
There weren't that many knights or nobles at the wall when the story started, some of them were killed by WW's, others by a rebellion, others again by an invading wildling army.

But it would be quite strange to have absolutely nobody there that could send a letter and/or take care of the ravens.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Ser Walter of AShwood

[Denam_Pavel]

55 minutes ago, Ser Walter of AShwood said:

It wouldn't be impossible for Castle Black to have nobody there that can read or write.
There weren't that many knights or nobles at the wall when the story started, some of them were killed by WW's, others by a rebellion, others again by an invading wildling army.

But it would be quite strange to have absolutely nobody there that could send a letter and/or take care of the ravens.

Bran can do the reading and writing part himself.

[nara]

Is it possible that Bran requested that Jon not be notified, so that he doesn't come racing up to Castle Black and get distracted from the work he needs to do?  Kinda similar to when Bran asked Sam not to tell Jon about the fact that Bran and Co were alive and going beyond the Wall.  It's weak, but still...

[the tower of albion]

Sorry if this has already been brought up. What Authority does Littlefinger still have? He was put in charge of the Vale by Cersei and then broke with her. Why haven't the Vale lords kicked him to the curb.

[BradDoty08]

23 hours ago, Sandokan I Ironborn said:

Welcome!

The lack of Bran plot in that episode is even more surprising if you consider the fact that it took only one single shot for Dany's raven to arrive at Winterfell. If Dolorous Edd would have sent a raven when Bran reached the Wall, then it would have been received by Jon in E02 or earlier. It is awkward. 

Especially when we know what Bran knows about Jon's parentage. What the fuck are D&D doing with Bran's plotline.

Thank you!

I guess that makes sense for the story but in actual life that's pretty insane. But like I always tell myself, it's just a show.

Love Euron by the way! 

[Tagganaro]

3 hours ago, the tower of albion said:

Sorry if this has already been brought up. What Authority does Littlefinger still have? He was put in charge of the Vale by Cersei and then broke with her. Why haven't the Vale lords kicked him to the curb.

The show has explained that LF has the Vale because Sweetrobin likes and listens to him.  So he basically rules by proxy through Sweetrobin.  

[Cas Stark]

2 minutes ago, Tagganaro said:

The show has explained that LF has the Vale because Sweetrobin likes and listens to him.  So he basically rules by proxy through Sweetrobin.  

This is BS though, because SR is still in the Vale.  The show established that Lord Royce was vulnerable to LF having him killed.  So, reasonably, Royce would have already arranged an accident for LF long time ago.  What's SW going to do?  He will only know what they tell him.  The Vale lords never liked LF to begin with, and of course by now surely someone has told them that Sansa rode in WITH LF, and wasn't kidnapped by the Boltons like he said.  LOL.  The only reason he still lives is because the showrunners like his character and the actor.

[Lord Friendzone]

On 27. 7. 2017 at 10:13 PM, Future Null Infinity said:

I have a weird feeling that bran's plotline and jon targaryen's plotline doesn't exist in season 7 and they are the story of season 8

It seems that way. I wonder if it will be made public or not.