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Allardyce

Spoiler: Dany's Small Council

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2 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

That would seem like a waste of her entire story liine.

GOT is not about the throne or the red keep, it's about people finding that what they dream about is unreachable or not good for them (the story of sansa and today's arya for example)

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Just now, Future Null Infinity said:

GOT is not about the throne or the red keep, it's about people finding that what they dream about is unreachable or not good for them (the story of sansa and today's arya for example)

yes but her storyline includes how many characters. I just don't see her completly failing happning

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2 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

yes but her storyline includes how many characters. I just don't see her completly failing happning

But she already failed! ( Euron and the ballista of Qyburn)

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16 minutes ago, kg1982 said:

You seem incredibly obsessed about defending her for someone who hates her.

No, I just value honesty. The swill you're peddling doesn't come close to being truthful.

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15 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

no offense but he is just pointing out that your biase towards her is making the way you perceive things a bit extreme.

I teach English Composition at the local university. When I teach summary writing to my students, the sort of crap that kg1982 is engaging in is exactly the sort of thing I tell them to avoid. If kg1982's post were a summary submitted as a homework assignment in my class, I would've plastered a big red "F" on it.

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1 minute ago, Future Null Infinity said:

But she already failed! ( Euron and the ballista of Qyburn)

Hitting a flying dragon with one of those ballista isn't easy. Also he was shooting an old dragon skull from what thirty feet away. I really hope they have dany do the smart thing and have dany go over that fleet and just burn it all. She would only need to hit the sails and if you can aim one of those ballista on a ship that moving and the dragon being probably a hundred feet away you desevre a medal

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2 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

Hitting a flying dragon with one of those ballista isn't easy. Also he was shooting an old dragon skull from what thirty feet away. I really hope they have dany do the smart thing and have dany go over that fleet and just burn it all. She would only need to hit the sails and if you can aim one of those ballista on a ship that moving and the dragon being probably a hundred feet away you desevre a medal

Her dragons will die by the ballista but not before burning the red keep and the iron throne, they were introduced in the story by a lenghty scene so they will serve a purpose, the problem of aim and distance is in domain of reality but this is a fictional show

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1 minute ago, Future Null Infinity said:

Her dragons will die by the ballista but not before burning the red keep and the iron throne, they were introduced in the story by a lenghty scene so they will serve a purpose, the problem of aim and distance is in domain of reality but this is a fictional show

I think kingslanding will be destroyed by cersei using wildfire.  It would be it all coming full circle.

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2 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

I think kingslanding will be destroyed by cersei using wildfire.  It would be it all coming full circle.

Agreed. As for the dragons...

...Viserion is supposedly killed by the Night King and then raised as a Wight Dragon. Rhaegal also supposedly takes a liking to Jon. So if my theory is right, the show will end with three different sides: the Night King, Daenerys, and Jon Snow, and each side will have their own dragon.

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3 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

Agreed. As for the dragons...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

...Viserion is supposedly killed by the Night King and then raised as a Wight Dragon. Rhaegal also supposedly takes a liking to Jon. So if my theory is right, the show will end with three different sides: the Night King, Daenerys, and Jon Snow, and each side will have their own dragon.

 

I like this

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4 hours ago, kg1982 said:

Same difference.  It is meant to show that the North is evolving into something more democratic/ open than what Dany has in mind, which is an absolute monarchy where no one contradicts her.

Yup because telling his entire council to fuck off because he knows best and does what he wants is democratic. *rolls eyes*

For that matter, I believe he was right to act undemocratically.

 

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1 minute ago, lojzelote said:

Yup because telling his entire council to fuck off because he knows best and does what he wants is democratic. *rolls eyes*

For that matter, I believe he was right to act undemocratically.

 

He basically abdicated - and emphasized he was doing so because it's worth the risk.  So yeah, don't have a problem with that.  

Wouldn't characterize Dany as "undemocratic" at all.  She explained her rationale, had Tyrion reiterate, asked the interested parties if they agreed, then asked Olenna to stay after class.  That's unbelievably democratic by most monarch's standards.

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Just now, dmc515 said:

He basically abdicated - and emphasized he was doing so because it's worth the risk.  So yeah, don't have a problem with that.  

Wouldn't characterize Dany as "undemocratic" at all.  She explained her rationale, had Tyrion reiterate, asked the interested parties if they agreed, then asked Olenna to stay after class.  That's unbelievably democratic by most monarch's standards.

He did not abdicate. He installed Sansa as the Regent for the duration of his absense. He makes it clear the office is hers only until he returns. That was a common practice irl. For example Henry VIII made Catherine Parr the regent for England while he was warring in France.

Anyway, I do not get this thing with democracy. These characters live in a quasi-medieval setting. Its natural that kings and queens expect to be obeyed. They should try to follow good advice and act justly and ensure prosperity for their people, but to expect them to act according to modern ideals is not very realistic.

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1 minute ago, lojzelote said:

He did not abdicate.

I know.  See "basically" as a qualifier.

2 minutes ago, lojzelote said:

Anyway, I do not get this thing with democracy. These characters live in a quasi-medieval setting. Its natural that kings and queens expect to be obeyed.

Agreed for the most part.  However, I think what Martin is going for is demonstrating the younger generation of rulers coming to understand the value of consensus as a positive aspect of governing rather than simply an effective way to maintain power.  And I think the show is trying to do the same in its own small, comparatively vapid way.

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34 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

Agreed. As for the dragons...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

...Viserion is supposedly killed by the Night King and then raised as a Wight Dragon. Rhaegal also supposedly takes a liking to Jon. So if my theory is right, the show will end with three different sides: the Night King, Daenerys, and Jon Snow, and each side will have their own dragon.

 

Not gonna happen.

 

Maester Aemon about Dany: "A Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing."

Jon Snow: *appears that same exact moment*

If you think Targbowl is on the plate, you have not been paying attention. There is no reason whatsoever for them to fight. DnD has repaeatedly stated that Dany is not like her father. Jon said this very episode he does not want to be a king. And they

grow very close to each other and make a common cause against the WW, while Cersei schemes to backstab them.

Anyway, three major villains - Cersei, Euron, the WW - are more than enough for one season. There's no time left for this Dany is an antagonist BS

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21 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

I know.  See "basically" as a qualifier.

Agreed for the most part.  However, I think what Martin is going for is demonstrating the younger generation of rulers coming to understand the value of consensus as a positive aspect of governing rather than simply an effective way to maintain power.  And I think the show is trying to do the same in its own small, comparatively vapid way.

But that "basically" does not have much meaning behind it. He went to negoatiate to Daenerys, and he expects that when he returns the North will accept the result of these negotiations as binding. If he does not, his going to her makes no sense. He said he has to go to Dany because he is the King, not the man who used to be the King.

I agree that achieving consensus is generally important, but I take issue when people try apply modern mentality. Besides, the nobles usually have their own selfish agenda - think of the nobilty calling Egg a tyrant for giving extra rights to commoners. The monarch's council pressing him for or against a certain decision less or more successfully does not make their kingdom neccessarily a better or freeer place to live. The same is true of the lowborn members. Varys was immediately biased against Melisandre before she said a single word, because she's does magic and he hates magicians.

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21 minutes ago, lojzelote said:

Not gonna happen.

 

Maester Aemon about Dany: "A Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing."

Jon Snow: *appears that same exact moment*

If you think Targbowl is on the plate, you have not been paying attention. There is no reason whatsoever for them to fight. DnD has repaeatedly stated that Dany is not like her father. Jon said this very episode he does not want to be a king. And they

 

  Reveal hidden contents

grow very close to each other and make a common cause against the WW, while Cersei schemes to backstab them.

Anyway, three major villains - Cersei, Euron, the WW - are more than enough for one season. There's no time left for this Dany is an antagonist BS

 

 

most people who believe she will turn evil believe it will be next season. By that time alot more characters will be dead or at least not get as much attention. Look at this episode for example. The sandsnakes have been cut in half and will likely be dead next episode so that is dorne essentially cut out. Cersei or euron will die this season or perhaps both cutting the time even farther. I expect one of the starks will die as well. Olenna will likely die this season as well. And most agree little finger will die as well.  So essentially we will have samwell's arc,arya's,jons,dany's,tyrion, and possibly jaime as well. Until this season I had been binge watching the show and now that I'm not I realize how each character gets a small amount of time if you add it all up each episode. That's the problem with a massive cast

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11 minutes ago, lojzelote said:

But that "basically" does not have much meaning behind it. He went to negoatiate to Daenerys, and he expects that when he returns the North will accept the result of these negotiations as binding. If he does not, his going to her makes no sense. He said he has to go to Dany because he is the King, not the man who used to be the King.

I agree that achieving consensus is generally important, but I take issue when people try apply modern mentality. Besides, the nobles usually have their own selfish agenda - think of the nobilty calling Egg a tyrant for giving extra rights to commoners. The monarch's council pressing him for or against a certain decision less or more successfully does not make their kingdom neccessarily a better or freeer place to live.

exactly how often do the nobles actually do what's best for their people.

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32 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

I know.  See "basically" as a qualifier.

Agreed for the most part.  However, I think what Martin is going for is demonstrating the younger generation of rulers coming to understand the value of consensus as a positive aspect of governing rather than simply an effective way to maintain power.  And I think the show is trying to do the same in its own small, comparatively vapid way.

no he essentially said while I am gone you are in charge. He had to leave someone in charge while he left. I do agree that they are trying to show the next generation is more open in some ways.

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