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thequicksilverthings

[Spoilers] Rant and Rave with Impunity

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4 hours ago, Boy and Girl Wadish said:

The whole episode just felt off to me, and very disappointing considering the season premiere signaled for great things to come. I was really bothered by this, most of all:

Dany sending her allies all the way back to Sunspear - She came from Slaver's Bay, which is far down south her fleet would've passed by the Dornish coast on the way to Dragonstone. Why not just make the stopover there? It doesn't make sense to have the Sand Snakes +  QoT travel from Dorne to Dragonstone then have Dany order Yara + Sand Snakes to go back to Dorne to mobilize their men. They would've saved an awful lot of time. Additionally, travelling back and forth by sea just seems so dangerous and time-consuming. I understand Dany had to meet them in person at first, but she could've just done that if she stopped at Sunspear on the way to Dragonstone.

 

It's worse than that. The SS were on Meereen last season. Everyone was, even Olenna and Varys. They all sailed to Meereen, then back to  Dragonstone, and now to Porne...

 

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2 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said:

Sam discovers about the dragonglass mines in dragonstone in the books of the citadel but Davos who lived half of his life on that island got some form of amnesia when that was discussed in the council

can't believe no one else has pointed this out yet. Wtf?

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47 minutes ago, WinterPool Stark said:

can't believe no one else has pointed this out yet. Wtf?

It has, earlier upthread.  It was ranted about extensively in ep. 1 R&R because Sam was told by Stannis seasons ago that there was dragonglass on Dragonstone and also Davos was in the meeting when Jon talked about needing to find dragonglass but said nothing, so ep.2 is an extension of that. :bang:

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3 hours ago, of man and wolf said:

Maybe the raven got attacked on the way by an eagle. or something. you guys take everything too literally. there are like what, 11 episodes left? shall we spend them making sure we see the plots, schemes, designs and maps drawn up, the massing of forces, the build up with 50 minute epidodes and yet still so much to cover?

"Ohh noo, we have too much to cover (2 minutes long shit montage), we just don't have enough time (5 minutes long GreyWorm sex scene)!"

We would have time for the basic logistics and strategy if we didn't have long, idiotic, pointless scenes each episode. Instead of "foreign invasion", we could have had a line about how the Tyrell's are going to help feed Dany's army. That's all we need, you know. Just a few lines. At least allude to these things going on in the background. They don't even have to show us.

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On 7/24/2017 at 11:26 PM, Illiterati said:

Because Jorah is a nobleman, the grandmaester is offering him 24 hours to do himself in if he wishes to avoid the pain and insanity.

That doesn't explain why he had his sword in the first place. I could see Archmaester Ebrose leaving like a razor or something and nodding to Jorah (but then even that would be far too subtle for D&D), but letting him hang onto his sword the whole time he's there? Especially given that they apparently lock him up when they aren't doing whatever the fuck they were doing?

and he's a former nobleman who was exiled for selling poachers to slavers. yeah, he had a pardon, but like...i don't know if the pardon was ever rescinded, because he kind of betrayed the crown afterwards.

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5 minutes ago, ser jaime canister said:

That doesn't explain why he had his sword in the first place. I could see Archmaester Ebrose leaving like a razor or something and nodding to Jorah (but then even that would be far too subtle for D&D), but letting him hang onto his sword the whole time he's there? Especially given that they apparently lock him up when they aren't doing whatever the fuck they were doing?

He isn't a prisoner in the Citadel. He went there voluntarily, to see if they could cure greyscale. As is explained in the letter he wanted to send to Daenerys.

If I'm in a hospital, they will also allow me to keep my personal belongings.

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52 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

It has, earlier upthread.  It was ranted about extensively in ep. 1 R&R because Sam was told by Stannis seasons ago that there was dragonglass on Dragonstone and also Davos was in the meeting when Jon talked about needing to find dragonglass but said nothing, so ep.2 is an extension of that. :bang:

I've seen the posts about Sam but i didn't see anyone mention Davos

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13 hours ago, SweetPea said:

And now that I think of it, how could Dany even send a raven to Winterfell? Dragonstone was abandoned so who was feeding them? I guess Olenna or Ellaria could have brought ravens with themselves but it's still weird.

There's absolutely no sense of the scale of Westeros or time passing in the show. I'm pretty sure that next episode we will see Jon already arriving at Dragonstone, while for Jorah and Sam only a few hours will have passed.

The way I look at the shows Worldlining now is that it's Christopher Nolan style time-conducting , everything has  the usual duration just not ordered in a linear sequence.

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17 hours ago, Saturno said:

Just watched the last scene from season 6 and noticed that Daenerys is surrounded not only by Greyjoy ships but also by Martell and Tyrell ones. So they HAD their armies, they could just attack King's Landing... except all those ships disappeared? It's unbelievable how people working in this show just don't plan ahead.

http://media.thisisinsider.com/images/577159c56450a31c008b4f7c-1334-667.jpg

http://media.thisisinsider.com/images/577159ac6450a31c008b4f7a-1334-667.jpg

We don't really know if the Tyrell and Martel armies were on those ships, makes no sense to send them all that way and then just come back.

I figured those ships were used to supplement the 'dragon-navy' for transport of the Dothraki and Unsullied.

Until I know other wise I am also taking it that Yara only took her Ironborn squadron plus the Tyrell and Martel ships back in order to collect the armies.

Else wise how is Dany gonna get 8000 Unsullied and 100,000 Dothraki to the mainland?

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4 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Something that bothered my about the argument between "Saint" Tyrion and Ellaria Sand is when Tyrion called her out on poisoning Myrcella, he seems to forget that his family, Joff and Cersei had Robert's illegit children hunted down and murdered, including the slitting of little newborn baby Bara in Little Finger's brothel. Then again, Lannisters always think they are worth more than anyone else, even their Bastards.

Tyrion knew about the Bastards being hunted down and slaughtered as that was brought up when he was looking for a reason to send Janos Slynt away in order to wrest Harrenhal away from him.

good point

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13 hours ago, SweetPea said:

And now that I think of it, how could Dany even send a raven to Winterfell? Dragonstone was abandoned so who was feeding them? I guess Olenna or Ellaria could have brought ravens with themselves but it's still weird.

 

That's true too. I suppose that Olenna or Ellaria could have their own ravens, as you pointed out, but I dare to say that the raven are trained to know the way from point A to point B and from point B back to point A. Now suddenly the raven would be supposed to go to point B from point C that he isn't used to. I have little to no knowledge about sending messages via birds but I dare to say that this wouldn't work.

10 hours ago, Spaßvogel said:

I dunno.  I feel like they've gutted his character arc.  He is far past where he had gotten in the books, which was to ignore her pleas for help, and yet there he is, at her side, helping her "win" -- he shouldn't want her to win. 

I think that Jaime's relationship in the show is different from the one in the books. In the books, Jaime is aware that Cersei uses him when it suits her and she even sends him away to Riverlands so that he wouldn't intervene in her plans. When he receives the message, I think that he doesn't even consider the possibility of Cersei being in a real danger. I think that he imagined another tiny problem which only has importance in Cersei's eyes. And there is also a long progression about Jaime losing his affection for Cersei.

While in the show, he still loves her and Cersei loves him. I dare to say that they are rather partners in the show, not a queen and her servant as in the book. Jaime doesn't really support some of her decisions but he loves her and the past is in the past and it can't be changed, so he keeps on protecting her. If she loses the war, she will be probably executed. He wants to save her because he loves her. So he wants her to win and does what he can to achieve it.

13 hours ago, Ser Didymus said:

may be considered nitpicking, but do you all remember when Stannis attempted to acquire a loan from the Iron Bank, but he was quickly put in his place when asked about the amount of resources at his disposal on Dragonstone?

Dany shows up at an empty Dragonstone, meaning no smallfolk working the fields, or tending to livestock, or fishing.  Meanwhile, Cersei and Jaime discuss their need for resources to feed the city and their army now that the Tyrells have jumped ship.  Cut to Tyrion discussing a protracted siege of King's Landing to starve them out (also a lot of suffering for the smallfolk who don't deserve to be burned, but clearly deserve to be starved).

what about feeding Dany's Unsullied army?  or the Dothraki (who have yet to make an appearance)? or even the Dragons?  they will have no choice but to pillage their way across the continent, regardless of destination.  or, more than likely, this will never be addressed and everything will work out perfectly for Dany because reasons.

But... but... but Dany is the Muther of Dragooons! She ain't gonna be worried because of such basic problems!! Her awesomeness covers even her army, so they don't need food or a space to live in! What's so complicated about it you don't understand? (*sarcasm, of course*)

6 hours ago, of man and wolf said:

Maybe the raven got attacked on the way by an eagle. or something. you guys take everything too literally. there are like what, 11 episodes left? shall we spend them making sure we see the plots, schemes, designs and maps drawn up, the massing of forces, the build up with 50 minute epidodes and yet still so much to cover?

Or rather D&D needed the raven to arrive after Jon's depart so that Jon doesn't know about his parents when he goes meet Daenerys. Mark my words that Sansa will receive the raven in next episode. 

4 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Something that bothered my about the argument between "Saint" Tyrion and Ellaria Sand is when Tyrion called her out on poisoning Myrcella, he seems to forget that his family, Joff and Cersei had Robert's illegit children hunted down and murdered, including the slitting of little newborn baby Bara in Little Finger's brothel. Then again, Lannisters always think they are worth more than anyone else, even their Bastards.

Tyrion knew about the Bastards being hunted down and slaughtered as that was brought up when he was looking for a reason to send Janos Slynt away in order to wrest Harrenhal away from him.

True. And let's not forget that it's interesting that Tyrion even knows that Ellaria killed Myrcella. There's literally no evidence. Yes, Cersei and Jaime think so but it's just a speculation. So I suppose that Ellaria just visited Tyrion in his chamber and described in detail Myrcella's murder. Otherwise, I have no idea how Tyrion could be so sure about it before Ellaria admits it.

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3 hours ago, Ser Quork said:

It has, earlier upthread.  It was ranted about extensively in ep. 1 R&R because Sam was told by Stannis seasons ago that there was dragonglass on Dragonstone and also Davos was in the meeting when Jon talked about needing to find dragonglass but said nothing, so ep.2 is an extension of that. :bang:

This is really odd.

I mean, nothing is gained from it. Also, think about how softer it would be:

CITADEL: 

In episode 1, after a montage of shoveling shit and serving food, Sam asks the archmaester to go to the restricted area. The archmaester rejects, and so Sam sneaks there. While reading the book, he discovers something and tells Gilly "hey! I think this book as a possible cure for grayscale!" (with the added relief of not having to say, "well, stannis already told me that, but I needed to remind the audience". In episode 2, Sam tries to cure Jorah.

WINTERFELL:

in episode 1, when Jon talks about how they need dragonglass, Davos tells them about dragonstone. They agree on going there. In episode 2, when all the arrangements are made, and the "dragon glass fetching squad" is assembled they receive a raven from Tyrion/Dany. So they gather in the hall once again, and Jon decides it's better if he goes.

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This show is genuinely terrible: terribly written, terribly inconsistent, terribly acted in some key roles, and terribly boring for all its action and plot twists. Hate watching and some cool battle scenes are all that's left.

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14 hours ago, Ser Didymus said:

may be considered nitpicking, but do you all remember when Stannis attempted to acquire a loan from the Iron Bank, but he was quickly put in his place when asked about the amount of resources at his disposal on Dragonstone?

Dany shows up at an empty Dragonstone, meaning no smallfolk working the fields, or tending to livestock, or fishing.  Meanwhile, Cersei and Jaime discuss their need for resources to feed the city and their army now that the Tyrells have jumped ship.  Cut to Tyrion discussing a protracted siege of King's Landing to starve them out (also a lot of suffering for the smallfolk who don't deserve to be burned, but clearly deserve to be starved).

what about feeding Dany's Unsullied army?  or the Dothraki (who have yet to make an appearance)? or even the Dragons?  they will have no choice but to pillage their way across the continent, regardless of destination.  or, more than likely, this will never be addressed and everything will work out perfectly for Dany because reasons.

 

 

It's not nitpicking.

The 'plots and schemes', and political dances such as the economy of KL during a war, were exactly what made the show (also the books) interesting to begin with.

We didn't have any epic battle scene, or highly choreographed fight back in season 1. In the first 3 seasons there is 1 big battle. The other one is literally skipped through (Tyrion unconscious). Also, people suffered from their mistakes, their decisions were what made them, and their story was made by the sum of their decisions along with the decisions of the ones surrounding them. Now, their stories are made to get head in first into a predefined point, so on with it.

 

That being said, there was a point where Tywin told Cersei that the Lannisters were broke. Also, the Iron Bank was regularly mentioned, as the crown owned millions to the bank. They said they stopped financing the crown, back when Stannis went there for a loan.

Logically, the crown should be broke, and they should be facing a deep financial crysis, specially without the Tyrells to help them. Now, facing the possibility of an invasion, Cersei is face to face with her mistakes, with the people getting more and more agitated and starving.

THIS SHOULD BE THE MAIN KL PLOT!

Instead, they're concerned with inventing the ballista.

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You guys have already more than covered the main issues but one other little thing that annoyed me, wasn't balerion's skull entirely too small? 

In the books I'm sure it's described as big enough to drive a horse and cart through or something but it didn't look any bigger than drogon to me

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51 minutes ago, Holly Macaroni said:

It's not nitpicking.

The 'plots and schemes', and political dances such as the economy of KL during a war, were exactly what made the show (also the books) interesting to begin with.

We didn't have any epic battle scene, or highly choreographed fight back in season 1. In the first 3 seasons there is 1 big battle. The other one is literally skipped through (Tyrion unconscious). Also, people suffered from their mistakes, their decisions were what made them, and their story was made by the sum of their decisions along with the decisions of the ones surrounding them. Now, their stories are made to get head in first into a predefined point, so on with it.

 

That being said, there was a point where Tywin told Cersei that the Lannisters were broke. Also, the Iron Bank was regularly mentioned, as the crown owned millions to the bank. They said they stopped financing the crown, back when Stannis went there for a loan.

Logically, the crown should be broke, and they should be facing a deep financial crysis, specially without the Tyrells to help them. Now, facing the possibility of an invasion, Cersei is face to face with her mistakes, with the people getting more and more agitated and starving.

THIS SHOULD BE THE MAIN KL PLOT!

Instead, they're concerned with inventing the ballista.

Very well put. I especially agree with the bolded.

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6 hours ago, Saturno said:

It's worse than that. The SS were on Meereen last season. Everyone was, even Olenna and Varys. They all sailed to Meereen, then back to  Dragonstone, and now to Porne...

 

:rolleyes: It's worse than I thought.

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2 hours ago, spongehands said:

You guys have already more than covered the main issues but one other little thing that annoyed me, wasn't balerion's skull entirely too small? 

In the books I'm sure it's described as big enough to drive a horse and cart through or something but it didn't look any bigger than drogon to me

Yeah, I thought that it was a bit tiny. But to be fair, I'm not sure if it was mentioned before in the show how big the skull is supposed to be...

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2 hours ago, spongehands said:

You guys have already more than covered the main issues but one other little thing that annoyed me, wasn't balerion's skull entirely too small? 

In the books I'm sure it's described as big enough to drive a horse and cart through or something but it didn't look any bigger than drogon to me

I'm also not entirely sure, but I think the show does make a mention of Balerion's size. He was supposedly big enough to swallow an aurochs whole, and even mammoths (book quotes). So yeah, the skull was entirely too small.

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8 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

When he receives the message, I think that he doesn't even consider the possibility of Cersei being in a real danger. I think that he imagined another tiny problem which only has importance in Cersei's eyes.

Jaime later wonders if High Septon haven't killed Cersei already so he definitely understood in what kind of danger Cersei was.

Regarding Jaime in the show overail, I think it is really overthinking when you try to explain why in the show he acts differently than in the books - that he is different because Cersei is different, because he doesn't know as much as in the books, because his circumstances are different and so an on. While this is all true, it is all irrelevant in front of one main simple reason - Show Jaime and Book Jaime are simply different people. Show one doesn't act like book Jaime, he doesn't think like one, he doesn't even talk like one, they just have different personalities and hence behave differently and that's all there is. And while subjectively I am very upset of the change, objectively it is fine as long as show Jaime is consistent within the series. Although I don't think he is. I just don't believe that the one we see in current episodes is the same person from seasons 1 to 3. The writers have made him way too different.

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