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Marvel Cinematic General Discussion 7


Calibandar

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8 hours ago, The BlackBear said:

Black Widow is getting her film, it's going to be written by, get this, a woman.

https://www.cbr.com/black-widow-film-screenwriter/

Finally Marvel have noticed that this type of film can be done (see also Atomic Blonde, Red Sparrow, etc.)

4 hours ago, The Wolves said:

I love spy action movie thrillers but I don’t want or need a Black Widow movie. 

I'm glad for female led superhero movies and what not but Wonder Woman 2, Captain Marvel, Silver and Black, Batgirl, Kitty Pride, and now Black Widow are all white female led films. Where are the WOC led films like America Chavez, Silk, Kamala Khan, or even Storm. 

I really hope Marvel will be announcing some WOC movies very soon. 

I'd love that too, and I really hope that with DeWanda Wise appearing in the Captain Marvel movie (presumably as Monica Rambeau) we get a Monica Rambeau solo film spinning off from that. I don't even care which codename they give her. She's such a great character, with tons of potential as a lead. 

We also do get Shuri in the new Black Panther but it's harder to see her getting a spinoff, although you never know. Still: BP is fairly new to the line, so she won't be taking over that mantle any time soon, I suppose.

Disagree with red snow about Kamala - for me, a film is the way to go, although the TV series idea has been popular too. But I think Kamala can carry a film. Her supporting cast will still work, the effects budget would be bigger, and you can easily tie it in to Spider-Man. More to the point, I think Kamala has the cachet to carry it. 

A Storm solo would be sweet but it has to get the casting just right. The material is right there in the comics. So much good stuff that can be adapted. I'd love to see a movie focusing on her relationship with Forge. 

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3 hours ago, red snow said:

It's why the casting of non-white people in roles has been used and is actually a pretty good idea. In the case of Nick Fury it worked so well that the comics bent over backwards to make their version black too.

I don’t know if this was a typo for you or not... but you do know it was the other way around, don’t you?

The Ultimates version of Nick Fury was actually based off the look of Sam Jackson years ago and the MCU liked it so much they purposely went out and got him.

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I think probably if you want to get more WoC onto the big screen X-Men is the best way to go. X-Men volume 4, had an all female X-Men team, the only white one was Rachel Grey (well and sort of Psylocke, but you could just make her British Japanese.) This isn't solving the issue of leading a film, but getting audiences familiar with them as big players would help towards that end.

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2 hours ago, Rhom said:

I don’t know if this was a typo for you or not... but you do know it was the other way around, don’t you?

The Ultimates version of Nick Fury was actually based off the look of Sam Jackson years ago and the MCU liked it so much they purposely went out and got him.

Yeah, but then main universe Nick Fury was replaced a black Nick Fury in an fairly convoluted way.

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5 hours ago, Rhom said:

 

The Ultimates version of Nick Fury was actually based off the look of Sam Jackson years ago and the MCU liked it so much they purposely went out and got him.

I was under the impression that when they made the deal to use Jackson’s image for Ultimate Fury, one of the conditions was that he got first refusal on playing Fury in any future movies.

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16 minutes ago, Maltaran said:

I was under the impression that when they made the deal to use Jackson’s image for Ultimate Fury, one of the conditions was that he got first refusal on playing Fury in any future movies.

Could be.  But the overall point is that the comic look dictated the movie, not the other way around

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34 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Could be.  But the overall point is that the comic look dictated the movie, not the other way around



Yeah, but as GallowKnight said, the main universe Fury was also made into Jackson by the most ridiculously contrived method possible after the films succeeded.

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6 hours ago, Rhom said:

I don’t know if this was a typo for you or not... but you do know it was the other way around, don’t you?

The Ultimates version of Nick Fury was actually based off the look of Sam Jackson years ago and the MCU liked it so much they purposely went out and got him.

Not a typo -as others mentioned the main marvel comics universe had a white WWII Nick Fury. The ultimate version was always Samuel L Jackson (Millar often encouraged his artists to emulate actors in his film pitches comics). So there was no contrived issues with Ultimate Nick Fury. But regular continuity Nick Fury involved their being a black Nick Fury Jr who wound up losing an eye, wearing a patch and taking over from Fury Sr.

44 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Could be.  But the overall point is that the comic look dictated the movie, not the other way around

The films had the freedom to choose whichever version they wanted to and as seen with various characters from Thor and Dr Strange they change gender/ethnicity as they wish. Besides the names of characters there's very little evidence of the comics ever dictating the movies. Which makes sense when ticket sales in New York for a mcu film are probably higher than single issue sales of the respective comic. I'd say the comic inspired Sam Jackson Nick Fury and his success in the role dictated the change afterwards in the comics.

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17 hours ago, The Wolves said:

I love spy action movie thrillers but I don’t want or need a Black Widow movie. 

I'm glad for female led superhero movies and what not but Wonder Woman 2, Captain Marvel, Silver and Black, Batgirl, Kitty Pride, and now Black Widow are all white female led films. Where are the WOC led films like America Chavez, Silk, Kamala Khan, or even Storm. 

I really hope Marvel will be announcing some WOC movies very soon. 

I'm guessing the diversity waters in super hero movies will be tested in the following manner:

White woman solo super hero movie viability (bonus points if you succeed in China): proof of concept - Wonder Woman (success + bonus point awarded); repeatability trial - Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman 2 (successes TBD); final validation - Black Widow (could be axed if Capt Marvel is a failure). Side note: Ant Man and The Wasp used to confirm female co-lead "buddy movie" as a viable formula.

Non-white male solo super hero move (bonus points if you succeed in China): Proof of concept - Black Panther (Noting previous attempts: Blade and to a lesser extent Spawn were moderately successful); repeatability trial TBC? Side note: Luke Cage Netflix show.

Non-white female solo super hero movie viability (double bonus points if you succeed in China): proof of concept TBC.

For all that the US cops a lot of shit for racism, it seems that the US market is pretty much the least difficult movie market for racially diverse leads to succeed. The test for non-white lead movie success is in the international market, and to a large extent China. Particularly for movies with budgets over $150 million. China hasn't really taken to Black lead actor movies yet. Maybe Black Panther might open a crack there.

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  • 2 weeks later...
34 minutes ago, The BlackBear said:

Hmmm, I like the design, but I'm not sure why they don't just go straight to Red and Blue. Unless they're worried about her looking too much like the Wasp?

They definitely will. They released concept art at Comic Con last year, where she's in red and blue.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHCr6jmUQAANnO_.jpg

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8 hours ago, The BlackBear said:

Hmmm, I like the design, but I'm not sure why they don't just go straight to Red and Blue. Unless they're worried about her looking too much like the Wasp?

Maybe that’s the Kree standard suit and since she’s fighting in the Kree- Skrull War that’s what she’ll be wearing for a while. I think she will be getting her signature suit probably in the third act or so. 

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2 hours ago, The Wolves said:

Maybe that’s the Kree standard suit and since she’s fighting in the Kree- Skrull War that’s what she’ll be wearing for a while. I think she will be getting her signature suit probably in the third act or so. 

This.

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I do9n't know if it's good to do this sort of comparison, but it sounds maybe like Black Panther successfully did for Black representation in Super Hero movies what Wonder Woman tried to do for women with mixed results.

But I guess it's early days yet and the critics that have made their views public on BP would probably be classed as the librul elite, or they are people of colour themselves. So I guess wait until less liberal-minded people start voicing their opinions on whether or not things get a bit tainted in these toxic political times.

Really excited to see the movie, so glad people are saying Killmonger is a 3-dimensional antagonist, as this sets a significant bar for future MCU movies. If the villains are hollow, cookie cutter antagonists people are not going to give Marvel their m0oney the same way they have been.

I wonder if it's going to knock some shine of Infinity War if Thanos and the Black Order are not done well. It also puts the acid on Captain Marvel a bit to rise to the level of BP in terms of character development.

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