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Discusing Sansa XVIII: North and South

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Anyone else curious as to how she'll respond to Bran'd return? Technically, he has more claim than her. I doubt Bran will want the position (he's got his own agenda), but I wonder what her reaction will be?

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1 hour ago, Lady Noble said:

Anyone else curious as to how she'll respond to Bran'd return? Technically, he has more claim than her. I doubt Bran will want the position (he's got his own agenda), but I wonder what her reaction will be?

She never cared about power in the story, her character isn't about governing, her story is the same as Arya's, she wanted to marry a valiant knight and she was wrong like Arya wanted to be assassin and she was wrong

Last season, Lf told her that she have more claim than Jon Snow and she walked away from him

So, I doubt she will have any reaction even if I highly suspect that Bran will ever return to Winterfell (until now, there is no raven from castle black sent to Winterfell) 

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It will be interesting if everything comes down on LF.  What does Bran know?  Will the Queen of Thorns sell him out/have him killed (concerning Joffrey poisoning)? 

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I see Sansa trying to use LF's army to seize the North for herself sending it into civil war and splitting the North just as the Others attack leading to it's ultimate annihilation. 

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12 hours ago, Lady Noble said:

Anyone else curious as to how she'll respond to Bran'd return? Technically, he has more claim than her. I doubt Bran will want the position (he's got his own agenda), but I wonder what her reaction will be?

I think that she's going to be very happy; I don't believe she is the power-hungry bitch that some people think she is.
She just wants to feel safe.

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On 2017. 07. 25. at 7:40 PM, WolfOfWinter said:

I know there was a lot of criticism directed towards Sansa for speaking out against Jon in public last week, but I can't see why people would fault with her for it this week. 

This.

I don't fault Jon for not discussing it beforehand - he is determined to go, so nothing Sansa would say could change his mind. And even if the episode summary said "Jon faces a revolt" or something like that, I don't thing it was a revolt of any kind - sure, everybody disagreed with him, but they did, because they are worried about his life. Even Sansa is. It wasn't done to undermine him (in ep1, it was different), but because they don't want to lose him. 

If Sansa and Jon discussed everything beforehand, as it would be the right place for Sansa to say her opinion, and then we would see the exact same discussion with the Northern Lords - that wouldn't make great TV.  I would really like to see characters explaining stuff to others that we already know, but there is a reason why all these discussions happen offscreen. These scene would be useless, especially for those viewer who don't like that character. 

So I guess they just chose to have one, big council, and Sansa, like every other Lord, is allowed to say her opinion there. For me, it didn't sound like undermining Jon in this ep. If anything, it showed that she genuinely loves her brother, and is worried about his life.

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9 hours ago, lomiller said:

I see Sansa trying to use LF's army to seize the North for herself sending it into civil war and splitting the North just as the Others attack leading to it's ultimate annihilation. 

Logic level is like : Trump uses the american army to seize the USA!!!! she's a stark and the queen regent, she doesn't need to seize the north from Jon, LF already suggested that and she refused, her character traits in the story doesn't have power, wars and swords in it, her story is about dreams and violence

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19 hours ago, Lady Noble said:

Anyone else curious as to how she'll respond to Bran'd return? Technically, he has more claim than her. I doubt Bran will want the position (he's got his own agenda), but I wonder what her reaction will be?

First, we will have a joyous Stark-reunion moment like we had the last year. The same will happen with Arya. And then I suppose the LF will start spinning wheels working on differences between the sisters, Sansa's insecurities etc. I believe that his downfall will come from all three of them in some way. They will all take him down. 

5 hours ago, Arya Targaryen said:

So I guess they just chose to have one, big council, and Sansa, like every other Lord, is allowed to say her opinion there. For me, it didn't sound like undermining Jon in this ep. If anything, it showed that she genuinely loves her brother, and is worried about his life.

Yes, I would agree with this. More than that, I think she was genuinely surprised and touched by Jon appointing her. I think a lot of her insecurities this season came from her POV that Jon doesn't consider her equal. Not only that this put an end to possible Stark confrontation between the two of them but actually strengthen their connection for wars to come.

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7 hours ago, LucyMormont said:

I think that she's going to be very happy; I don't believe she is the power-hungry bitch that some people think she is.
She just wants to feel safe.

I'm torn. I want to believe what you believe, but she became so likable that I wonder if she's going to do a 180.

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11 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said:

Logic level is like : Trump uses the american army to seize the USA!!!! she's a stark and the queen regent, she doesn't need to seize the north from Jon, LF already suggested that and she refused, her character traits in the story doesn't have power, wars and swords in it, her story is about dreams and violence

She's not a queen of anything, she's the Kings sister.  Her story is one of betraying her family in the service of her own interests.

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4 hours ago, lomiller said:

She's not a queen of anything, she's the Kings sister.  Her story is one of betraying her family in the service of her own interests.

Catch up.

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https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfy4VO8Jlcs/maxresdefault.jpg

it seems that we will have another Sansa scene at the weirwood tree of Winterfell

Last season, I thought that the scene of Sansa/LF at the weirwood tree is just a throwback to the Ned/Cat scene but now I think it is more than that : is she channeling the "eddard stark"?, she stopped praying because she doesn't believe in any god

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On 25. 7. 2017 at 4:14 PM, Future Null Infinity said:

I saw it like this and I have nothing against the character of Daenerys : she will lay siege on King's landing and then Qyburn will shot down one or two of her dragons, I can see her rage when she sees her most precious thing in the world dead

She'll burn others but not everybody and everyone to be Queen of Ashes. This is Cersei's nature.

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5 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

She'll burn others but not everybody and everyone to be Queen of Ashes. This is Cersei's nature.

You are right, it was a flawed logic and a very bad prediction from me, I based my thoughts on Olenna telling her to be a dragon, I thought that ultimately she will have to choose between Tyrion's way of reason and Olenna's way of the dragon

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22 hours ago, lomiller said:

She's not a queen of anything, she's the Kings sister.  Her story is one of betraying her family in the service of her own interests.

I have read many wrong assessments regarding Sansa's arc, but this one puts all of them to shame... Simply, this is as wrong as it gets.

2 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfy4VO8Jlcs/maxresdefault.jpg

it seems that we will have another Sansa scene at the weirwood tree of Winterfell

Last season, I thought that the scene of Sansa/LF at the weirwood tree is just a throwback to the Ned/Cat scene but now I think it is more than that : is she channeling the "eddard stark"?, she stopped praying because she doesn't believe in any god

I think that weirwood is where she feels the safest. In KL, it was the only place where she can be alone, true to herself, without anyone, without lies. It is also a place, as she said in Season 4, where no one talks to her. I think that weirwood may be the place she goes not for prayer, but for that peace and solitude we all need sometimes.

For all her Southorn looks and comparisons with Cat, there is so much of Ned in her. And this is yet another exa

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23 hours ago, lomiller said:

She's not a queen of anything, she's the Kings sister.  Her story is one of betraying her family in the service of her own interests.

agree. But the betraying has not been done on purpose, it has been done out of stupidity, selfishness, and like Catelyn Stark(Tully), she's a Tully through and through. The Tullys have been the tool the Starks's enemies have used to destroy them.

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1 hour ago, tormond said:

agree. But the betraying has not been done on purpose, it has been done out of stupidity, selfishness, and like Catelyn Stark(Tully), she's a Tully through and through. The Tullys have been the tool the Starks's enemies have used to destroy them.

catelyn stark brought the downfall of her husband,her oldest son,and countless others including the blackfish.  She brought about the destruction of house tully and so many others. Unlike sansa however who did it because she was so naive and clueless at the time catelyn knew she might start something huge and did it anyway. Sansa had been raised as a perfect and clueless little girl and she didn't know anything about how things really are. Her father should have had her watched more closely. Basically they both screwed up but sansa did so out of stupidity where as catelyn did so knowing full well what could happen. 

 

What is really ironic is that jon snow brought house stark back and she was the one who treated him like dirt

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1 hour ago, snow is the man said:

catelyn stark brought the downfall of her husband,her oldest son,and countless others including the blackfish.  She brought about the destruction of house tully and so many others. Unlike sansa however who did it because she was so naive and clueless at the time catelyn knew she might start something huge and did it anyway. Sansa had been raised as a perfect and clueless little girl and she didn't know anything about how things really are. Her father should have had her watched more closely. Basically they both screwed up but sansa did so out of stupidity where as catelyn did so knowing full well what could happen.

 

What is really ironic is that jon snow brought house stark back and she was the one who treated him like dirt

agree in every point. But Sansa innocence should not be used as a defense for her, look at arya. Arya younger than Sansa and just as innocent, knew right from wrong and where her loyalty should lie. You saw how she defended the butcher boy, you saw how she recognized evil and wanted no part of it even if it meant death. On the other hand, Sansa lied for jeoffrey, for littlefinger and for anyone, out of selfishness and self preservation.

 

It is ironic that Ned was scolding Arya and not Sansa about the importance of sticking and looking out for her family first against outsiders.

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3 hours ago, tormond said:

agree in every point. But Sansa innocence should not be used as a defense for her, look at arya. Arya younger than Sansa and just as innocent, knew right from wrong and where her loyalty should lie. You saw how she defended the butcher boy, you saw how she recognized evil and wanted no part of it even if it meant death. On the other hand, Sansa lied for jeoffrey, for littlefinger and for anyone, out of selfishness and self preservation.

 

It is ironic that Ned was scolding Arya and not Sansa about the importance of sticking and looking out for her family first against outsiders.

I agree but arya was way different then sansa. Sansa was essentially a nobleman's dream daughter by most accounts. Because of that she is completly naive and believes in things that are absolutely ridiculous yet make her sound sweet and innocent. Where as arya was considered a nightmare and was more realistic and despite being four years younger (I think) and yet she was able to survive and adapt. Also while I hated that she lied for jeoffrey ned had a point she was going to marry him and she had to side with him because of that. Again arya pointed out that how could her father let her marry someone like that.

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