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Meera of Tarth

Arya and Nymeria

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When Arya meets Nymeria again, after all these years, we see her leading a pack of wolves. Arya tells her to go with her, and she shows a complex set of emotions: at first, she is a Little afraid of the situation, the wolves Nymeria leads are dangerous (and Nymeria is “defending” her pack from her before she sees she is Arya), but then Arya shows surprise, as she would have never thought of finding her again at that moment. She quickly changes her mood into happiness for the reunion, and a hope to see her again with her, and wanting her to be part of her new future in Winterfell as it used to be in the past. We see there is a bigger emotional space between them that it did not exist in season 1. Of course, many years have passed, they have had different lives. However, we also see that the bonding exists and it’s strong, and Nymeria spends her time watching her human, and she shows she cares about her, possibly thinks of her past with her. Ultimately, Nymeria decides to leave with her Wolf pack, leaving Arya alone and sad, while she says: “that’s not you”.

Firstly, I’d say that after the scenes with the Lannister soldiers, and the Little awkward scene with Hot Pie where Arya is a bit distant with him, one of its meanings could be that Arya is colder that she used to be, and while her words to Nymeria are about love, Nymeria might notice she is not exactly the same girl she met. That made me wonder…. Were Arya’s words actually about herself?

In the show, they have exaggerated Arya’s quest for vengeance and blood. They have even made her play LSH’s role. However, we see that she is still Arya Stark, like in the books in many of her scenes with other people, and also alone. But even not being consumed and still being Arya, maybe her list and other killings as we see in the show version (and also her traumas) have caused some consequences in her personality, that she should realise, but only others can see.

Arya’s nature is not about vengeance, this is slowly consuming herself because that’s not what she is (she is good-hearted inside and her strength has helped her, but this type of life is going to have consequences even in people like Arya). So, her true nature might be rebelling against this “liking” for blood and thus, she is subconsciously not comfortable with herself, with her actual objectives in life. Nymeria sees she is not comfortable with herself (in deep emotional terms) and that might be a reason why she leaves her. In fact, once she hears about Jon, she quickly decides to go to see him, because her deepest desires are reuniting with her family.

That could mean that in a future she could meet Nymeria again, but this time, showing Nymeria that she is emotionally mature to meet her and having abandoned her quest for vengeance.

Then we also have the Inside the Episode….

The showrunners say that Nymeria has her own life (we see she has a family and she is responsible for all of them as the leader) and that “That’s not you” is a direct reference to s1’s “That’s not me” when Arya tells her father she wants to live her life as she wants, because she is wild in nature. They also say that this is what Nymeria is doing at that moment, exactly the same she would do if she was that wolf, and that Arya sees in Nymeria what she saw in herself in s1.  

Finally, they also say that both of them are not domesticated, emphasizing the connection between Arya and Nymeria. We know that in the books the connection is even deeper (as she wargs Nymeria), does that line mean something?

So could this be an acknowledgement (and acceptance) from Arya’s part that both of them should and Will have their own lives, living them as they want?  Will this be this way ? Does living their own way mean sacrificing something or someone? (now Nymeria and Arya are metaphorically sacrificing a friendship, at least in terms of closeness)

Does Arya want to be like Nymeria?

Does Arya still want to be “wild”, after Nymeria’s scenes? Does she understand her father’s point of view more now?

What are your thoughts on this scene?

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Bryan Cogman also said Nymeria waas doing the work of the Old Gods. What do you think he meant by that?

Nymeria chose her duty at a Pack leader over what her heart might have wanted in following Arya. Nymeria wouldn't want to conform to just being a simple companion even if that meant she could be with Arya. Nymeria is doing something bigger now, she has a family that relies on her to lead them.


I'm more inclined to see a bittersweet angle to this scene. That Arya will face a similar choice in the future that sees her chained down by duty but unlike Nymeria, Arya's bittersweet ending will have her living a life she never wanted. GRRM isn't giving these Starks the future they planned and wished for. This feels more like what GRRM would do with her ending than the obvious stuff of her dying or becoming No One. Arya's ending will be heart-breaking in that her spirit will never be free and she will have to conform in ways her father had unwisely foreshadowed in the Book 1 moment this Nymeria scene was inspired by.

It's interesting D&D are harking back to that time with Arya & Ned - It's a perfectly crafted passage by George filled with so much foreshadowing.

 

BTW I loved your breakdown of Arya's emotions in that scene. It's more emotion than most actors on the show have been able to express lol I saw a lot of people noticing that! David in the Behind the Episode said the same thing about Maisie's acting carrying the scene. 

Then there is that scene in front of...

Spoiler

Ned's tomb in Ep4 with Arya visiting her father's bones. D7D are injecting these overly emotional moments for Arya - bringing her emotionally alive again after what she's been through with the FM. 

 

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I thought the coldness from Nymeria to Arya was totally unnecessary and in line with the adaptation's denigration of the link between the direwolves and the Stark kids at every possible opportunity. Whether that was Nym being written out or being set up to play a role in the war vs the Others, they could have explicitly shown that Nymeria was very happy to reunite but she was unable to come North and Arya was unable to stay in the Riverlands.

If Nymeria rejected Arya because of her obsession with vengeance, then it further shows how merging her and Lady Stoneheart has left an utter mess - with the motivations of her character flitting between two different points. I have also seen people claim it is because Arya is not a Stark anymore but no one. If that was their intention it is even worse as retaining her loyalty to her family even when the Faceless Men tried to drive it out of her is pretty much the one thing they have got right to this point.

The criticism of Arya as not being domesticated from Inside the Episode is an all too familiar one. Whilst she is headstrong and initially struggles to keep her emotions in check, she should have no problems in living peacefully with other humans. Maybe if they had made her training in Braavos amount to more than being hit repeatedly with a stick, they could have shown how she liked the normality of a quiet life as Cat of the Canals.

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The Nymeria and Arya scene means nothing symbolically. That's because the direwolves have been effectively written out of the show. Ghost hardly shows up anymore. Summer died the most meaningless death in the series. Nymeria showed up and then left promptly. It's clear that the show runners don't like the direwolf CGI. The end result is that the direwolves effectively don't exist anymore. That's why it's useless to use them for symbolism.

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27 minutes ago, Winter's Cold said:

The Nymeria and Arya scene means nothing symbolically. That's because the direwolves have been effectively written out of the show. Ghost hardly shows up anymore. Summer died the most meaningless death in the series. Nymeria showed up and then left promptly. It's clear that the show runners don't like the direwolf CGI. The end result is that the direwolves effectively don't exist anymore. That's why it's useless to use them for symbolism.

But these writers specifically had that Arya/Ned scene in mind when they constructed that meeting. 

You have to consider who Arya wanted to be before Ned answered the way he did.

Arya wanted to rule her own holdfast, become a King's Councillor or a High Septon. All these pursuits would see her remain or interact with a royal court in her future. But there is really only 1 role that would see her perform all these tasks as George subtly hints at with Ned's answers. So I think it's more likely Arya will face a similar moment like Nymeria where she will have to make a choice. Knowing GRRM, where do you think that will leave Arya? Getting exactly what she wants?

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I'm not watching the show anymore, except for any good Arya scenes if they even existed. I can across this Arya and Nymeria reunion clip in an article and decided to watch it. It was sad as fuck, however, I have to agree with Winter's Cold here because it is a repeat, just with less viewer backlash like Summer, and they are just killing off the direwolves:

1 hour ago, Winter's Cold said:

The Nymeria and Arya scene means nothing symbolically. That's because the direwolves have been effectively written out of the show. Ghost hardly shows up anymore. Summer died the most meaningless death in the series. Nymeria showed up and then left promptly. It's clear that the show runners don't like the direwolf CGI. The end result is that the direwolves effectively don't exist anymore. That's why it's useless to use them for symbolism.

 

31 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

But these writers specifically had that Arya/Ned scene in mind when they constructed that meeting. 

That problem here is you are giving the showeunners and writers way too much credit for understanding the story. In the books I expect a better reunion than this. In the show... just remember Arya in Braavos. From the clips I have seen, the writers are out of book material and are literally going back to earlier seasons and pilfering quotes to reuse because 'talent'. I have noticed a recycled line in all of the clips I have seen. All of them. 

I will say that I won't be surprised if on the show Nymeria shows up deus ex direwolf to help in one more scene later, and then go back into the woods. 

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2 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I'm not watching the show anymore, except for any good Arya scenes if they even existed. I can across this Arya and Nymeria reunion clip in an article and decided to watch it. It was sad as fuck, however, I have to agree with Winter's Cold here because it is a repeat, just with less viewer backlash like Summer, and they are just killing off the direwolves:

 

That problem here is you are giving the showeunners and writers way too much credit for understanding the story. In the books I expect a better reunion than this. In the show... just remember Arya in Braavos. From the clips I have seen, the writers are out of book material and are literally going back to earlier seasons and pilfering quotes to reuse because 'talent'. I have noticed a recycled line in all of the clips I have seen. All of them. 

I will say that I won't be surprised if on the show Nymeria shows up deus ex direwolf to help in one more scene later, and then go back into the woods. 

 

Bryan Cogman was tweeted an article claiming HBO don't have the budget for Nymeria. He shot it down and said it was important to the narrative. I think it could be both? lol Instead of killing off another direwolf yet again, they found a way to keep her alive and work it into Arya's story? He specially mentioned the scene having some foreshdaowing, which is why I think Arya will face a similar choice as Nymeria did. The fact they linked back to her convo with Ned as well... I can't help but think it won't be so happy and easy for Arya. 

But I agree overall about the writers being out of material and just winging it with the brief outline Geroge gave them. Stuff like like "Arya leaves the HoBW" and then we're treated to D&D "attempt" to fill in the blanks LOL 

You're not watching the season? Good. It only gets worse. ep6 will be a mind****. 

Spoiler

When he asks Dany if he could bend the knee ... with no thought to the North and what he is giving up to her. Plus LF's demise... the way they have to dumb him down is just a travesty. 

 

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"that`s not you " means Arya is no one. she is a faceless man, and i am pretty sure faceless man own 1 kill to Littlefinger and Arya gonna pay that debt by killing Jon Snow.

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4 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

 

Bryan Cogman was tweeted an article claiming HBO don't have the budget for Nymeria. He shot it down and said it was important to the narrative.

Cogman is the public talking head because he is the one that tries to be the Kool Kid and keeps connected to the fandom. He recently shared 'excitement' about something Radio Westeros is doing. :rolleyes:

4 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

 

I think it could be both?

I trust George way more than these... writers. Think back to that interview where Benioff and Weiss did not know Sam was an actual POV in the books. John Bradley, who read the books, had to point it out to them that his character is a POV. 

4 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

 

lol Instead of killing off another direwolf yet again, they found a way to keep her alive and work it into Arya's story? He specially mentioned the scene having some foreshdaowing, which is why I think Arya will face a similar choice as Nymeria did. The fact they linked back to her convo with Ned as well... I can't help but think it won't be so happy and easy for Arya. 

It will be interesting to see how the show handles Arya from now on. And I do hold an ocean of doubt that they understand her character. 

4 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

But I agree overall about the writers being out of material and just winging it with the brief outline Geroge gave them. Stuff like like "Arya leaves the HoBW" and then we're treated to D&D "attempt" to fill in the blanks LOL 

Yeah. I agree and this is where I see the problems starting. The fill in the blanks. 

4 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

You're not watching the season?

Nope. Except for maybe a few clips if I hear something good. 

5 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

Good. It only gets worse. ep6 will be a mind****. 

  Reveal hidden contents

When he asks Dany if he could bend the knee ... with no thought to the North and what he is giving up to her. Plus LF's demise... the way they have to dumb him down is just a travesty. 

 

This WILL NOT be one of those good things. Gross! :ack:

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1 minute ago, Pacala said:

"that`s not you " means Arya is no one. she is a faceless man, and i am pretty sure faceless man own 1 kill to Littlefinger and Arya gonna pay that debt by killing Jon Snow.

No.

"That's not you" is a direct link to Arya saying a similar thing when Ned wanted her to be a Lady in Book 1. Arya wanted to choose her own destiny beyond the conventional role for a highborn like her. She wanted her own holdfast, or become a King's Councillor or a even a High Septon. She had bigger dreams. Nymeria does as well, now a Queen of her pack and she chose to stay with that family instead of returning to Arya and simply being her companion. But that's not Nymeria anymore. Arya realizes this when she says that now famous line that everyone is trying to figure out. 

The last bit of your sentence... lol. Sorry, but no. 

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4 hours ago, DutchArya said:

Bryan Cogman also said Nymeria waas doing the work of the Old Gods. What do you think he meant by that?

Oh, I hadn't heard that, thanks. I have no idea what this could mean. I read somewhere that they found the mother of Nymeria and the puppies because the old Gods (greenseers?) deliberately wanted the Starks to find them.

It's also interesting that direwolves and these other mystical animals can only be found in the North (with the exception of the dragons in the show, but they also reappeared after a "magical" event). Might it be that magic is involved in their lives? And thus, the connection with their humans, which we know it's also magical (warging)?

I don't know what he might  be implying with "the work". What we see is that she s leading a pack. Is this what he is referring to? I don't know, it looks that she does it with free will, and it's logic considering she is the only direwolf in the pack.

Quote

Nymeria chose her duty at a Pack leader over what her heart might have wanted in following Arya. Nymeria wouldn't want to conform to just being a simple companion even if that meant she could be with Arya. Nymeria is doing something bigger now, she has a family that relies on her to lead them.

Yes, I completely agree with that.

Quote


I'm more inclined to see a bittersweet angle to this scene. That Arya will face a similar choice in the future that sees her chained down by duty but unlike Nymeria, Arya's bittersweet ending will have her living a life she never wanted. GRRM isn't giving these Starks the future they planned and wished for. This feels more like what GRRM would do with her ending than the obvious stuff of her dying or becoming No One. Arya's ending will be heart-breaking in that her spirit will never be free and she will have to conform in ways her father had unwisely foreshadowed in the Book 1 moment this Nymeria scene was inspired by.

It's interesting D&D are harking back to that time with Arya & Ned - It's a perfectly crafted passage by George filled with so much foreshadowing.

That's a very interesting take. I also don't think at all that Arya's endgame is about becoming no One and dying and this stuff. The endgame of her arch is about re-finding her identity (not that she has lost it, but she is not completely being Arya with her actions at the moment). She got lost and she will regain her strength again, to accept her destiny, and abandon her quest of vengeance, ultimately. Why? Because that's how a novel works, it's character development. That's why I don't understand people who think she will always be No One (especially since she has never become such a thing). In theory Winds is supposed to be darker, so I don't know the immediate future of Arya, but certainly it won't be as dark as some people say.

Could I buy that she has a bittersweet ending? Yes. What I don't know is what this could be.

Having thought of the scene again, now with your interpretation, I also think that the connection could also be about her finding a new pack and leading them. And by that, I mean being a Lady with her own family, but ruling the castle as her own, with her name (similar to what her father told her). That could be one possible interpretation.

In that sense, she'd probably not have the freedom she has always wanted, but she could also find happiness with that.

I have another take on the scene as well.

The show is emphasizing the fact that co-ruling is posible in an immediate future (I think it was Ellie or Isaac who mentioned this in an article as well bc we know that Bran is coming and he is the rightful heir but Jon is King, Sansa is the Lady in charge, Arya will arrive, etc), and also that the Starks should be together. We know that the sentence "The lone wolf dies, but the pack surives" was from Ned and Arya, but we see Sansa saying it in the show in the trailer, and we also know that the sentence "the man  who passes the sentence should swing the sword" which is from Ned and Bran's POV was used by Jon in the first episode.

So we can see with these lines that Starks have to be together. So Nymeria’s scene can also emphasize the fact that Arya should be with a pack (her siblings, friends, new family if she finds love) instead of being alone as a lone wolf in her quest of vengeance.

She will need them (and possibly Nymeria again) to be reminded that she has to change her way of living now and completely embrace the mature and strongest version of Arya Stark.

Quote

BTW I loved your breakdown of Arya's emotions in that scene. It's more emotion than most actors on the show have been able to express lol I saw a lot of people noticing that! David in the Behind the Episode said the same thing about Maisie's acting carrying the scene. 

Then there is that scene in front of...

  Reveal hidden contents

Ned's tomb in Ep4 with Arya visiting her father's bones. D7D are injecting these overly emotional moments for Arya - bringing her emotionally alive again after what she's been through with the FM. 

 

I didn't know that. Well it just confirms my theory!!

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2 hours ago, Horse of Kent said:

I thought the coldness from Nymeria to Arya was totally unnecessary and in line with the adaptation's denigration of the link between the direwolves and the Stark kids at every possible opportunity. Whether that was Nym being written out or being set up to play a role in the war vs the Others, they could have explicitly shown that Nymeria was very happy to reunite but she was unable to come North and Arya was unable to stay in the Riverlands.

 

I'm completely sure she'll reappear. I think that the fact they showed she is leading a pack of wolves means that it will be important. ALso, I think she will meet Arya again, once she has changed, even if they don't "belong" together in the same castle.

Quote

If Nymeria rejected Arya because of her obsession with vengeance, then it further shows how merging her and Lady Stoneheart has left an utter mess - with the motivations of her character flitting between two different points. I have also seen people claim it is because Arya is not a Stark anymore but no one. If that was their intention it is even worse as retaining her loyalty to her family even when the Faceless Men tried to drive it out of her is pretty much the one thing they have got right to this point.

The criticism of Arya as not being domesticated from Inside the Episode is an all too familiar one. Whilst she is headstrong and initially struggles to keep her emotions in check, she should have no problems in living peacefully with other humans. Maybe if they had made her training in Braavos amount to more than being hit repeatedly with a stick, they could have shown how she liked the normality of a quiet life as Cat of the Canals.

I completely agree with that. Cutting LSH was a horrible mistake. And that's why now they are trying to emphasize the change that Arya needs, because she has done things that book Arya would not have done.

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1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I'm not watching the show anymore, except for any good Arya scenes if they even existed. I can across this Arya and Nymeria reunion clip in an article and decided to watch it. It was sad as fuck, however, I have to agree with Winter's Cold here because it is a repeat, just with less viewer backlash like Summer, and they are just killing off the direwolves:

Yes, true. It's so sad :(

Quote

That problem here is you are giving the showeunners and writers way too much credit for understanding the story. In the books I expect a better reunion than this. In the show... just remember Arya in Braavos. From the clips I have seen, the writers are out of book material and are literally going back to earlier seasons and pilfering quotes to reuse because 'talent'. I have noticed a recycled line in all of the clips I have seen. All of them. 

I will say that I won't be surprised if on the show Nymeria shows up deus ex direwolf to help in one more scene later, and then go back into the woods. 

I thin your last sentence is extremely likely to happen. While they have gone out of book material and I completely agree that most of the original writing is so bad, we can also have to take into account that they are heading towards Martin's ending. That's why I think this scene could be important to mean something in the future. What discourages me is that they deliberately killed SUmmer, who I thought would be also important in the ending; but maybe Nymeria's role will be more important and that's why they have not killed her. 

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17 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

The showrunners say that Nymeria has her own life (we see she has a family and she is responsible for all of them as the leader) and that “That’s not you” is a direct reference to s1’s “That’s not me” when Arya tells her father she wants to live her life as she wants, because she is wild in nature. They also say that this is what Nymeria is doing at that moment, exactly the same she would do if she was that wolf, and that Arya sees in Nymeria what she saw in herself in s1.  

Finally, they also say that both of them are not domesticated, emphasizing the connection between Arya and Nymeria. We know that in the books the connection is even deeper (as she wargs Nymeria), does that line mean something?

So could this be an acknowledgement (and acceptance) from Arya’s part that both of them should and Will have their own lives, living them as they want?  Will this be this way ? Does living their own way mean sacrificing something or someone? (now Nymeria and Arya are metaphorically sacrificing a friendship, at least in terms of closeness)

Does Arya want to be like Nymeria?

Does Arya still want to be “wild”, after Nymeria’s scenes? Does she understand her father’s point of view more now?

What are your thoughts on this scene?

My sense is that Nymeria rejecting Arya had nothing to do with Arya's quest for vengeance--particularly since Arya had already decided to go to Winterfell by the time she ran into Nymeria--and everything to do with Nymeria being incapable of returning to a "domesticated" life as Arya's pet since that's not who Nymeria is anymore, much like Arya knew in Season 1 that a "domesticated" life as a lord's lady in a castle wasn't her.

This is what Dan Weiss said about the scene:

Quote

"'That's not you' is a direct reference to what Arya herself said to her father when her father painted this picture for her of the life she could have as the lady of a castle and marrying some lord and wearing a nice, frilly dress. Arya's not domesticated, and it makes total sense that her wolf wouldn't be, either. And once the wolf walks away, at first she's heartbroken to have come this close and then she realizes that the wolf is doing exactly what she would do if she were that wolf."

 

This is what Bryan Cogman said about the scene:

Quote

"In the end, they're both lone wolves. They can't go back to the way things were. And that might be foreshadowing for Arya, too."

Of course, as already pointed out, Nymeria has a pack of her own, so she's not at all a "lone" wolf, but if that's how the writers seem to consider Nymeria and if that's the parallel the writers are trying to draw (Nymeria = lone wolf, can't be tamed, Arya = lone wolf, can't be tamed?), then that suggests that ultimately Arya will be a lone wolf, too, unable to settle back into a domesticated existence at Winterfell (since she can't go back to the way things were, apparently, no more than Nymeria can).

Arya is heading for Winterfell and likely will remain there for the foreseeable future, but when Cogman talks about "foreshadowing for Arya," he may be hinting that when the war is over, etc., Arya won't be able to settle down at Winterfell or in any other castle for that matter and will resume her travels.One thing seems for certain is that Arya like Nymeria will wind up doing her own thing, and whatever that is, it will not involve a "domesticated" existence or anything that remotely resembles a traditional role. Like Nymeria, Arya has become accustomed to freedom: making her own plans, going where she wants to go, and doing what she wants to do. Once everything's settled at Winterfell and the war is over, she'll likely find a settled life as stifling as Nymeria would.

This could tie into the debate over whether or not Arya's curiosity about what's west of Westeros was intended to be a tell from the writers as to her endgame. Season 4 ended with Arya sailing off headed for adventure. Could Season 8 end the same way for her?

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4 hours ago, Horse of Kent said:

I thought the coldness from Nymeria to Arya was totally unnecessary and in line with the adaptation's denigration of the link between the direwolves and the Stark kids at every possible opportunity. Whether that was Nym being written out or being set up to play a role in the war vs the Others, they could have explicitly shown that Nymeria was very happy to reunite but she was unable to come North and Arya was unable to stay in the Riverlands.

What are you talking about? If Nymeria had run into anyone else, she and her pack would have feasted on them without a second thought. The fact that Nymeria kept Arya alive shows that she remembers her and remembers her fondly. She simply has a different path to follow.

I never cared about the scree time of the direwolves. It's a television show, so I just felt lucky we got the wolves at all.

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18 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

What are you talking about? If Nymeria had run into anyone else, she and her pack would have feasted on them without a second thought. The fact that Nymeria kept Arya alive shows that she remembers her and remembers her fondly. She simply has a different path to follow.

There is some middle ground between not eating someone and showing affection to them. Remember, book-Nymeria pulls Cat's body out of the Trident, ensures that the minor wolves in the pack do not harm Arya even when she is absent and ambushes the men out to kill her. That is the standard show-Nymeria is up against. Giving Arya a sniff and deciding not to kill her doesn't quite reach that level.

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A few things. #1, I enjoy discussing the show but the book is a whole other beast to me. No pun intended for this thread topic.

Also, #2 I am aware that I discuss the direwolf like I think it is real. No, just love the character and this is literature which is a whole other ball game.

#3 We are only two episodes in, and I will switch gears when something monumental happens or other favorite characters of mine appear. Two of my favs had very disappointing comeback  appearances on Sunday. My opinion. Also, I don’t think it’s happening like that in the books.

Her pack ran out first and circled. Now, I get a kick out of the minions approaching first and Big Nyms coming out last or staying back as would happen in some human situations as well. Most likely it was for tv, the Nymeria Big Reveal…that er, whatever.

For the show I’m debating a few things: She is still pissed about the rock. Still doesn’t understand she was not attacked nor abandoned or unwanted. She has just changed, period, and knows she can’t go, is out of her element, or just doesn’t want to go.

Two I like better are these: Duty to her pack. She doesn’t want to leave them, she understands her role as leader. How very Ned Stark of her…but Big Nyms is a Stark if you look at it. She is not leaving just because Arya abandoned her, to her understanding, and is now back in the picture. It’s just not the same. She is the leader and she is just not abruptly going and shifting the dynamic of the pack. Maybe she feels her pack won’t survive without her.

Part of me, on a literary bend, is that Big Nyms is going through maybe what Arya is or will. Deep down still knows the path she has travelled and may not be happy with how things went. What both had to do to survive. They are closing doors to certain parts of their life, not seeing reconciliation or a future. I get that. Almost feels that she is past being able to be a pet. Wishes to stay out of the human being realm. Er, except for a food source. So my David Banner/Hulk joke on another thread...well, it had some seriousness to it.

And we just don’t know everything still about wargs exactly or animals in general in the series, or how the tv show is trying to portray it or how they see it exactly either. We're thrown conflicted info. Well, some things are obvious. The connection and some of the abilities are completely downplayed or cut. So book and show are not the same with trying to figure this out.

I almost need a disclaimer. For the next few weeks I can discuss certain reactions to the show, but for most things it is no way in hell what I believe will happen with certain characters and situations come book time.

It really is apples and oranges.

With Arya I love that for a moment she became that little girl again before she had to let Nymeria go. Then it changed in a flash, but she had depth enough to realize it. It hurt, but she didn’t go off the deep end.

I agree. She is still capable of feelings and being herself. That was apparent. I do not agree that she was would be book-wise that "whatever" or dismissive almost arrogant or pompous to Hot Pie. They had a pretty moving scene with Gendry there too and he made a special uh, donut shaped like a direwolf. They had experienced much on the road. That fell flat from what we had previously seen with their show interactions.

I don’t think that’s happening in the book. Not that they will be running toward each other on a beach, but the scene was too stiff and pointless. That scene was for readers like me that love the Wolf Pack, think he is hilarious in the book and the actor on the show really did the character justice, and that was about all. The minute he mentions Winterfell and Jon her emotions change that much? It’s not her and I think we know that.

I will discuss something else later under a book spoiler tag. 

But I agree it is what Arya would do also. Nyms is not going to abandon her pack. Her responsibility. We saw that with Arya in book 3 and elsewhere.

And just because she is not going with her, that doesn’t mean she won’t protect her if the need arose and they cross paths again.

I did joke on rant and rave about Big Nyms pulling a David Banner/Hulk and walking away...

But that slow turn from Arya did get me. She made sure her pack, uh, somehow, left both Arya and her horse alone.

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Booknerd2 said:

With Arya I love that for a moment she became that little girl again before she had to let Nymeria go. Then it changed in a flash, but she had depth enough to realize it. It hurt, but she didn’t go off the deep end.

Great analysis of the scene Booknerd2. ;)

I love that you got all that shifting of emotions from Arya in just a few seconds at the end of the scene. 

18 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Oh, I hadn't heard that, thanks. I have no idea what this could mean. I read somewhere that they found the mother of Nymeria and the puppies because the old Gods (greenseers?) deliberately wanted the Starks to find them.It's also interesting that direwolves and these other mystical animals can only be found in the North (with the exception of the dragons in the show, but they also reappeared after a "magical" event). Might it be that magic is involved in their lives? And thus, the connection with their humans, which we know it's also magical (warging)?

How far North do you think Arya got when Nymeria found her? Do you think she was still in the Riverlands at the point?

 

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That's a very interesting take. I also don't think at all that Arya's endgame is about becoming no One and dying and this stuff. The endgame of her arch is about re-finding her identity (not that she has lost it, but she is not completely being Arya with her actions at the moment). She got lost and she will regain her strength again, to accept her destiny, and abandon her quest of vengeance, ultimately. Why? Because that's how a novel works, it's character development. That's why I don't understand people who think she will always be No One (especially since she has never become such a thing). In theory Winds is supposed to be darker, so I don't know the immediate future of Arya, but certainly it won't be as dark as some people say.

It's like mind-numbing how slow some people are on other forums/boards. They can look at the scene with Nym and think Arya has decided to turn around *again* and head in the opposite direction back South because she isn't a Stark anymore. I can't understand why D&D have sometimes dumb things down and lose the nuance. Some non-book reading TV viewers are just... not that swift. 

 

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Having thought of the scene again, now with your interpretation, I also think that the connection could also be about her finding a new pack and leading them. And by that, I mean being a Lady with her own family, but ruling the castle as her own, with her name (similar to what her father told her). That could be one possible interpretation.

I've seen several people posit this idea. This of course would not be Arya's wish, but isn't that exactly what Nymeria is doing? Settling down with a family she is the head of? When we point that out to people... they kinda miss that completely. What Nymeria is doing is choosing duty just like Arya might have to do in the future. 

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In that sense, she'd probably not have the freedom she has always wanted, but she could also find happiness with that.

That's exactly where I see George is taking Arya. Building her up to be able to show the world a different face (not literal) a mummers act. The Kindly Man calls that out from very early on when he tells her she wears names as easily as a gown, underneath she will always be Arya Stark. 

 

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I didn't know that. Well it just confirms my theory!!

Yup can't wait to see her back 

Spoiler

...in Winterfell and see her standing in front of her father's statue. It's so said that she still thinks Maester Luwin is alive and she has to learn he has died already. :(

 

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I think there is a lot of assumption based on the reunion and departure of Nymeria and Arya.  Perhaps Nymeria will be watching and following Arya North?  I am hoping that Nymeria will protect Arya on the road, or perhaps Arya realizes her warging powers?  Either way, is it that different than Ghost and Jon's relationship?  Ghost is not by his side all the time, and is often in the wild (on the show).

I have a feeling that this is not the last we will see of Nymeria and the pack.

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5 minutes ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

I think there is a lot of assumption based on the reunion and departure of Nymeria and Arya.  Perhaps Nymeria will be watching and following Arya North?  I am hoping that Nymeria will protect Arya on the road, or perhaps Arya realizes her warging powers?  Either way, is it that different than Ghost and Jon's relationship?  Ghost is not by his side all the time, and is often in the wild (on the show).

I have a feeling that this is not the last we will see of Nymeria and the pack.

Oh, good point, I think t could be the case if she reappears later, which I think so. About her warging powers.....not sure. I think we won't see it, but if they are going to create an unexpected s8, it could happen. After all, Bran's powers have surpassed that point, so Arya or Jon warging could be a thing.

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