The Expanse #3: Abaddon's Post - [spoilers for book only up to latest tv show episode]

[Corvinus85]

5 hours ago, Spaßvogel said:

I'm trying to figure out how the show-changes can reconcile with the book version of the Behemoth plot. 

 

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Drummer has already been somewhat combined with Sam Rosenberg, and somewhat with Michio Pa.  They eliminated Bull from the show, but now have Drummer as captain, Ashford as not-captain, Naomi on board, and no Michio Pa.  Diogo, however, is there. 

I'm trying to figure out if Ashford is captain at some point, with Naomi taking the Sam role with Engineering shenanigans, who is going to get executed like Sam?  There also needs to be someone filling in for Michio Pa during the mutiny/counter mutiny doesn't there?   Is that where Diogo comes in?  I suppose eventually Diogo could be the captain of a Free Navy ship like Michio Pa, or he can end up the one getting killed by Ashford. (but then his plot starts to parallel Naomi's son's plot later on). 

Maybe I am just over-thinking it and they will vastly simplify the Behemoth plot for the show. 

 

Spoiler

There is no way they are killing Naomi. Her having a son has been revealed in the show, and there have been hints at Inaros, so she still has plenty of good story left to tell. I do hope we get to see her v. Melba. That was one time in the book that I feared for Naomi's life.

I hope they don't kill Drummer, but it's possible that's where it's going. Ashford will definitely try to take command.

I don't recall who Bull is. Clearly less interesting than Anna, whom I did remember.

 

[Spaßvogel]

39 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

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There is no way they are killing Naomi. Her having a son has been revealed in the show, and there have been hints at Inaros, so she still has plenty of good story left to tell. I do hope we get to see her v. Melba. That was one time in the book that I feared for Naomi's life.

I hope they don't kill Drummer, but it's possible that's where it's going. Ashford will definitely try to take command.

I don't recall who Bull is. Clearly less interesting than Anna, whom I did remember.

 

Spoiler

In the books, Carlos Baca aka Bull (a POV character) was a long time ally of Fred's who was the most qualified to lead the OPA ring expedition, but because he was an Earther, Fred is forced to put Ashford in charge as captain and Michio Pa as the second in command, and Bull is essentially third in command as chief of security on the Behemoth.  Sam Rosenberg (a close friend to Naomi from Tycho station) is made the head of engineering.  Bull duplicates some of the actions of Drummer from the show (spacing the drug dealers).  He also finds that Ashford is a stickler to "rules" to the point that stuff isn't getting done, so he and Sam go behind Ashford's back to actually make the ship work. 

 

[Kalbear]

Last night's ep was more of a simmer, but at least we got Melba's backstory and some genuinely creepy bits about the ring. The relation of Holden/Alex/Amos is really excellent. 

And Amos really is just the best. 

Drummer's speech was pretty awesome too. 

[GallowKnight]

Drummer's speech was great. I liked that they saved Melba's backstory for a few episodes and didn't have it directly when she was introduced.

However I don't really get why they sent Naomi back to the Roci? It seemed like she had a way better role to play on the Behemot.

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, GallowKnight said:

Drummer's speech was great. I liked that they saved Melba's backstory for a few episodes and didn't have it directly when she was introduced.

However I don't really get why they sent Naomi back to the Roci? It seemed like she had a way better role to play on the Behemot.

I think with the Roci in trouble it would have strained credulity to keep Naomi on the Behemoth and away from them. I also think that we're going to get more of Drummer being a Bad Belter here shortly, with Naomi's balancing viewpoint going away, and that's how we'll see some problems arise. 

[Astromech]

3 hours ago, GallowKnight said:

Drummer's speech was great. I liked that they saved Melba's backstory for a few episodes and didn't have it directly when she was introduced.

However I don't really get why they sent Naomi back to the Roci? It seemed like she had a way better role to play on the Behemot.

Her little arc aboard the Nauvoo seemed rushed and pointless to me,(haven't read past Caliban's War so no idea how the book treats it) but I suppose they needed her skill set away from the Roci while Batteries Not Included sabotaged the ship. I'm happy she's returning home.

I didn't think it was possible to like Amos more than I already did.

I was rather ambivalent about Melba and her arc until this episode revealed she was a Mao.

[Martini Sigil]

I agree with everyone's previous posts... Amos so f'ing rocks... the expression on the reporter's face as they were leaving was priceless... the crew is at a serious disadvantage without Naomi... she could probably fix their communication problems pronto... and how great was it to see Julie again, if even in a flashback?... I love the whole rocker/rebel thing she had going on...

[boojam]

6 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Last night's ep was more of a simmer, but at least we got Melba's backstory and some genuinely creepy bits about the ring. The relation of Holden/Alex/Amos is really excellent. 

And Amos really is just the best. 

Drummer's speech was pretty awesome too. 

Camina Drummer -Captain of the Behemoth 
Beltalowda!

[Wethers]

3 hours ago, Astromech said:

Her little arc aboard the Nauvoo seemed rushed and pointless to me,(haven't read past Caliban's War so no idea how the book treats it) but I suppose they needed her skill set away from the Roci while Batteries Not Included sabotaged the ship. I'm happy she's returning home.

I didn't think it was possible to like Amos more than I already did.

I was rather ambivalent about Melba and her arc until this episode revealed she was a Mao.

Book 3 Abaddon's Gate treats Naomi's arc differently...

Spoiler

Naomi's not on the Behemoth nee Nauvoo at this stage.  She never leaves to go back and work for Fred.  She's still on the Roci, never having left.  As soon as Cohen's sabotage is revealed, she has the Roci's comms up and running again and forms a comm release proclaiming Holden's and their innocence, though of course not everyone believes it.

Drummer, who is more of a minor character at this stage, is also not on the Behemoth either in the books - she's still back at Tycho.  The main players on the Behemoth in the books are:

- Ashford, who is the captain in the book, not first officer as he is in the TV show.  I actually like the TV show's Ashford better.

- Michio Pa, the first officer, a female Belter who apparently doesn't exist in the show, but who they seem to have melded into Drummer in the TV show.  It's going to be interesting to see how they handle Pa's arc and who they use to represent it.

- A point of view character, Carlos "Bull" de Baca, an Earther who served under Fred Johnson and now works for the OPA under him, who is the most experienced officer and really should be the captain, but Fred gives him all the responsibility as 3rd in command (security chief) with none of the authority since it's not politically feasible to have an Earther leading Belters on a mission like this.  Until later in the book, we see most of the craziness that unfolds on the Behemoth through his eyes (later in the book, others are there too to witness it).  Some of his security crew are clearly won over by Bull's approach.  Others are clearly loyal to Ashford.

- A beloved secondary character, Samara ("Sam") Rosenberg who is friends with the Roci crew (especially with Naomi) from their earlier stint on Tycho, and is the Behemoth's chief engineer rather than Naomi, and we find out much later, Pa's clandestine lover at the time.

All 4 of the Roci crew, along with the news crew, do end up on the Behemoth... but only later in Abaddon's Gate than we've reached in the series so far, possibly a part that we won't reach by the end of TV season 3.

 

[boojam]

Latest episode seemed a bit ragged , kind of off set with Big Thinks strangeness.

[Corvinus85]

Naked Holden was weird, but I liked the imagery of the multiple rings and the weapon the station unleashed. Also, the part with the Martian captain being summarily disintegrated and used to repair the damage he had cause was frightening and awesome.

[Holy Sith!]

I noticed that the U.N.N. Thomas Prince captain was calling the ring a "gate" as the ship approached. That really evoked a Stargate feeling.

The visuals when Holden completed the Protomolecule circuit, made me think of Bowman's trippy ascension to star child in 2001. Had Holden been wearing his helmet, the reflections of what he was encountering would have amplified the similarity.

Looks like the ring "speed limit" applies inside as well as outside of the nucleus, or so the effect on the Martian Marines' automatic weapon rounds would suggest. The Protomolecule made short work of dissecting and assimilating the Martian squad leader.

[Kalbear]

Holden and Miller playing off each other is amazing. Continues to be amazing. Thomas Jane is brilliant.

[SpaceChampion]

56 minutes ago, كالدب said:

Holden and Miller playing off each other is amazing. Continues to be amazing. Thomas Jane is brilliant.

I'm so glad Miller is still part of the show.  Was afraid they'd Lady Stoneheart him and just cut him out.  Though I can't actually imagine how they'd work around his crucial role.

[GrimTuesday]

Was hanging out at my buddy's place watching the new episode and his brother had some of his friends from church over, an older couple. The brother popped in to see if we wanted some dinner and kind of chuckled that we were watching the Expanse. Turns out his guests are Ty's parents. had a Nice little chat with his dad. Nice folks.

 

Seven degrees and all.

[Relic]

Have you guys noticed that Amos has a "Timshel" tattoo on his right forearm? It means "thou mayest" and was heavily featured in the greatest American novel every written (imho) Steinbeck's East of Eden.  So fucking cool. 

[GallowKnight]

46 minutes ago, Relic said:

Have you guys noticed that Amos has a "Timshel" tattoo on his right forearm? It means "thou mayest" and was heavily featured in the greatest American novel every written (imho) Steinbeck's East of Eden.  So fucking cool. 

I think that may just be Wes Chatham's actual tattoo though.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

12 hours ago, Relic said:

Have you guys noticed that Amos has a "Timshel" tattoo on his right forearm? It means "thou mayest" and was heavily featured in the greatest American novel every written (imho) Steinbeck's East of Eden.  So fucking cool. 

East of Eden is a great, and thoughtfully written book.  I love it.

[Wethers]

Fallen World, episode 11.  Man they are moving fast, book-wise, skipping over things.  Even though some of the sequences replacing the book stuff is itself purposely slow-paced like the prolonged Drummer/Ashford conversation while trapped.

Spoiler

I think they are going to try to finish Abaddon's gate (book 3) in the last 2 episodes of season 3.  Which is crazy since they only just finished Caliban's War (book 2) in episode 6 of this season!

It's interesting how they are re-factoring Ashford, Pa, Bull and Sam from the books into Ashford, Drummer (and earlier Naomi) on the show.  Ashford from the books would never have the mental capacity to think of spinning the drum for gravity to help heal the wounded when no thrust gravity is possible due to the speed limit.  Bull did that in the books.  But I like show Ashford way better.  Not a cardboard cutout insecure narcissist as in the books, but rather a much more complicated and clever narcissist in the show.

And Drummer in the show absolutely reads him for what he is.  But she sacrifices herself anyway.  And he knows she is going to do it which is why he sabotages their escape earlier, figuring out that if he waits, she will sacrifice and he will become captain.  And I think she figures out that he did sabotage the effort to grab the hand terminal and still sacrifices herself since she's actually a good captain looking out for her ship and crew and wants Belters to have a captain in the crisis, whether it's her or him.  And he takes it and runs with it - "this is the *captain* {not acting captain} of the Behemoth... everyone send their wounded - they are welcome on *my* ship."

The Anna, Tilly, Melba/Clarissa dynamic is different too.  Anna isn't all shot up with speed to attempt her crazy inter-ship rescue like she is in the books.  And Tilly isn't still alive like she is in the books.  I wish they had made the fight between Naomi and Clarissa longer as it seems in the book, with Naomi using her zero-g expertise to evade Clarissa and keep her off balance until the end when Clarissa finally immobilizes her with the mech arm before getting tased by Anna.  And Clarissa tried to overload the reactor on the Roci in the books, though that may still happen in the show.

And of course Bobbie is not even in book 3 - it's different Martian marines, Verbinski, Juarez and others, who I actually liked as tertiary book characters.  But it's cool to have Bobbie there in the show - would probably be too many characters otherwise so it makes sense to condense as elsewhere.  In the show, clearly her subordinates no longer trust her.

 

[Astromech]

A slower episode that bored me for most of it. The hard science was interesting though.