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19 hours ago, RedShirt47 said:

Minor gripe with the Iron Bank of Braavos being in the Slave Trade when the city of Braavos was founded by escaped slaves and it's the one city in Essos which never had slavery. A minor plot point which doesn't ruin the show for me.

I don't really see a problem with this. Sure, the people may still hold on to their ancient ideals regarding this, but countless years have passed since and during those years Braavos has had to become a functional society. It's called Braavos, not Utopia. Like someone said, the Iron Bank is a financial institution that mainly cares about the flow of money. I'm sure there are representatives of the IB who are proud to have the blood of the "free people" but like so often in real life, we follow facts instead of our ideals. And here the fact is, money is power and there is a lot of money involved in slave business.

19 hours ago, ummester said:

Agree with others that predict the Grand Maester has given Sam forbidden/secret scrolls to translate. We might finally learn the true story of what the hell is going on with the seasons and White Walkers in this universe.

I never considered this. Interesting. I really hope this is the case. At first, I was surprised that the Archmaester let Sam off so easily (I was actually hoping for an actual punishment), but this "reward-disguised-as-a-punishment" is a cool idea. And I also like the idea of Sam contributing to the scrolls based on his own experiences.

11 hours ago, BradDoty08 said:

How come Jon didn't want Dany to know about him being brought back from the dead?

I'm not sure if Jon is still fully okay with what happened to him. If it scares him and his friends, then imagine how a potential enemy/rival would feel about it. It wasn't the right time to bring it up, he had just met Dany for the first time and was unarmed and Dany was already acting all suspicious. It will be interesting to see how Dany eventually finds out about Jon (and now I'm talking about both his resurrection and his parentage).

6 hours ago, Super Mario said:

Sansa was actually pretty good but since when does the 3 eyed raven have to be such an emotionless douche. Honestly how difficult is it to say, the 3 eyed raven mentored me, he died, now I'm the 3 eyed raven? Instead we get "it's difficult to explain".. no Bran, it isn't.

I agree, first of all Bran was super creepy in both scenes with Sansa. ("Ok I'm sorry about what happened to you sis, but hey, at least you looked beautiful that night, like really beautiful...") And he certainly could have provided Sansa with a full explanation if he'd just uttered one more sentence. Instead he ended up sounding like a teenager who tells their parents, "Get out of my room, leave me alone." BUT overall I have to say I do like how Bran is being portrayed now, it's like he is losing grip of reality while spending all his time in the world of visions. Of course it is going to take a huge toll on him and it is good of D&D to clearly demonstrate that. I think Bran will continue to struggle with which "reality" feels more real to him. He is very powerful but his power is also his burden.

--

Overall this episode was okay, with some strong scenes and some that were less so. The final scene with Olenna & Jaime takes most of the credits and I was also very impressed with the scene with Cersei, Ellaria and Tyene. I also liked some parts of Dragonstone, like the exchange between Varys and Melisandre (it's really interesting to see these two together, and I have to see I chuckle everytime I see Varys feeling uncomfortable in the presence of a red priestess). However, the interaction between Dany and Jon left me feel contradicted. I'm still struggling with whatever is going on with Dany and her exaggerated regal rigidity. But Jon (and Davos) being much more down to earth balanced the scene nicely. I'm glad they were granted permission for mining, I guess that is Tyrion's first step in trying to "manipulate" Dany into becoming allies with Jon. 

Things I didn't like so much include how Casterly Rock was depicted (seriously looked like suuuuuch a cheap setup), Jorah leaving the Citadel (Jorah: "Ok so I appear to be all cured, so I'm just going to venture into the world and hope that everything is fine and I'm still not contageous." / Sam: "Ok bye Jorah good luck, I'm not going to tell you about what I've seen as a NW member or ask for any favours from Dany or her dragons since I cured her favourite knight.") Also, some of the dialogue was completely pointless and ridiculous and again only served as fan service and a tragic waste of good screen time (good example being Tyrion commenting to Jon about his brooding).

Edited by Aderyn

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20 hours ago, nara said:

Sansa:

  • I was a little put off by how good Sansa was at preparing for winter/war– considering she had no training.  Jon , Rob, and Theon received training, but Sansa was still on the young side when she left Winterfell.  I can live with it.

She is the eldest daughter of one of the most powerful lords in the kingdom, from a major house. She has been trained all her life in how to run a household and being of the North, how to prepare it for winter. She had most of her training by the time she was 11, before they left for Kings Landing but you can be sure it continued afterwards. The only thing she doesn't know in this matter are "sums". It is said she is not good with those, and they demonstrated that when she had to ask for an interpretation of how long their food would last when told how many bushels of grain they had. It is just not interesting enough to put on screen.

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22 hours ago, athmystikal said:

I am not sure about the show universe, but in the books it has been clearly stated that Bravos was founded by escaped slaves. They are completely against slavery. But in today's episode, it is implied that the IB engages in slave trade.

That was very deliberate on the writers part. The free city of Bravos was founded by freed slaves but the Iron Bank of Bravos was founded on profitable investments. It shows that the Iron Bank has virtually no scruples about what or who it invests in. They invest strictly to make a profit and evaluate each investment on its likely return. They are very good at evaluating the potential profit of a venture. That is all slavery, freedom, kings, queens and wars mean to them, opportunities to make money. They have no allegiance to any country, ruler, cause, god, or moral save for money.

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This is the first episode I actually appreciated since season 5. I have been continually disappointed by the lack of character coherence and the style of direction. However, I think director Mark Mylod deserves kudos for bringing some actual emotion to the the table, along with beautiful imagery. While it is clumsy to kill off all the allies to create stakes, I was so annoyed at the end of last season that Dany was so overpowered that I'm actually relieved.

Best moments: When Jon sees a dragon for the first time, he is suitably awed. This should be in his blood, and they did a good job. Also Olenna's amazing death scene and reveal. 

Good moments: The restraint shown during the Ellaria scene. It made me actually feel for these characters I really disliked. I also liked the notion of the 'secret favorite child.' It made a parallel between these mothers who are dire enemies in that they each had a favorite. I also felt they made good use of psychologically torture as opposed to torture porn (and thank God they didn't have the mountain rape Tyene, which seemed to be the direction it was headed). We didn't watch real torture, but the ramifications of what Ellaria would have to endure are truly horrific. However, I think the mention that the poison works differently for different constitutions is a clear sign that Tyene will make it out of there. If it's a red herring, kudos to them. 

I actually LIKED the morning after romantic scene between Cersei and Jaime. Yeah, along with my fellow book readers I think he should be long gone, but it's refreshing to see ANY actual love and connection on the show when everyone is still so cold towards each other (Sansa and Jon at odds, and What the hell, Bran!)

Worst moment: LF's stupid college freshman philosophy student getting high for the first time speech. I remember 'the climb' speech and how it tied things to together and felt powerful while representing his philosophy. I liked when he was dynamic and capable- now he's a lapdog licking at crumbs. Also it didn't help that Bran showed up as a personification of the very philosophy LF was spouting, and found himself removed from life itself, which LF is decidedly not. And yes, very speech to sister- he wasn't like this last season! Also lack of notice and appreciation of Meera who dragged him all the way across to the wall and beyond. I would love to see Sansa have a friend like Meera. 

Agree with others that Dany was unbearably self-righteous. Yes, the Starks swore an oath, but those oaths go both ways. Fealty in return for protection, and Aerys broke that oath when he murdered Jon's grandfather. I would like her character if she wasn't so obviously supposed to be 'right.' She would be an interesting grey character. 

A writer pointed out that there are no living mothers and children besides Sam and Gilly. Can anyone think of any, or for that matter, fathers and their children? It seems the young have taken over and veterans like Petyr and Olenna have been rewritten as foolish and incapable. 

Funny moments: Did anyone else notice Davos flirting with Missendei? Also, 'this place has changed' after talking to her. 

So who will inherit Dorne and the Reach? I suppose the winning queen will put her choice in place.  Where are Edmure and Sweet Robin? 

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I'd like to point out to anyone who thinks Euron has a teleporting fleet that in fact, it all makes logistical sense:

Euron's teleporting fleet: The ambush occurs on their way to Sunspear, not in Blackwater Bay like many believe - Ellaria says to Yara "WHEN we reach Sunspear, I'll treat you to a Dornish Red". We do not know for certain that Yara's fleet left at the same time as the Unsullied. I'd say the Unsullied most likely left before Yara did as they have much further to go - so no reinforcements. I don't recall anything that suggested Euron's entire fleet escorted their new prisoners back to King's Landing. He went alone whilst the rest of his fleet sailed for Casterly Rock. It's not unfathomable that his fleet caught up to and overtook an unsullied fleet - after all, they're Ironborn while Unsullied are foot soldiers... Euron was not present nor was he required in the West.

Other points:

Lannister Army vs The Reach: Let's be honest, Show or not, Book or not, the entire Reach is scrambling with no leadership, especially after Tarly defected and would have stood no chance against an organised Lannister army. A small organised well lead army would decimate any larger, leaderless, unorganised army. Besides, it's not as if the entire Reach was there to defend High Garden. Tarly would have likely mustered and defected with a significant portion of that army also. In fact, he could have been playing both sides, allowing Olenna to believe he would defend the Reach for High Garden and then simply defect once they arrived.

Defenceless King's Landing: Cersei is Tywin's daughter after all, she's not stupid. The fact she's Queen right now suggests so. Any bit of reconnaissance would have revealed the bulk of Dany's army sailing away from Dragonstone. And, she likely took the risk of knowing Dany would not simply sack King's Landing as she is not the type to want to be Queen of Ashes. No defence - or at least a large one - required.

My problem is that they've improved the balance of power by strengthening Cersei, but in the process, they've turned Tyrion, who is meant to be known for his tactical nous, look like an absolute amateur. They've done a complete 180 on Jamie's character development which frustrates me more than anything else as his was one of my favourite in the books.

 

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I thought it was the best episode of the season so I'll give it an 8.

It was the first episode that didn't feel horrendously rushed. I guess I'm now used to the pacing of the show now, that they are fast forwarding and throwing the big events at the screen. This episode seemed to pull that off a bit better than previously.

I enjoyed the amount of time they took with each location. That the Jon and Dany scene took its time. Sure it wasn't as momentuous as I'd imagined but at the same time it didn't make me want to puke so that's a bonus

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1 hour ago, Stark_in_Winterfell said:

She is the eldest daughter of one of the most powerful lords in the kingdom, from a major house. She has been trained all her life in how to run a household and being of the North, how to prepare it for winter. She had most of her training by the time she was 11, before they left for Kings Landing but you can be sure it continued afterwards. The only thing she doesn't know in this matter are "sums". It is said she is not good with those, and they demonstrated that when she had to ask for an interpretation of how long their food would last when told how many bushels of grain they had. It is just not interesting enough to put on screen.

It is her first winter. She never saw how the North really prepares for Winter.

What she said is just logic. Nothing magical or high complex if you use a little bit of your braun.

Edited by Marlom

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1 hour ago, Stark_in_Winterfell said:

That was very deliberate on the writers part. The free city of Bravos was founded by freed slaves but the Iron Bank of Bravos was founded on profitable investments. It shows that the Iron Bank has virtually no scruples about what or who it invests in. They invest strictly to make a profit and evaluate each investment on its likely return. They are very good at evaluating the potential profit of a venture. That is all slavery, freedom, kings, queens and wars mean to them, opportunities to make money. They have no allegiance to any country, ruler, cause, god, or moral save for money.

But it has been stated that Bravos blocks or captures slave ships. If they go to that much trouble to disrupt slave trade, I don't think they will allow the Iron Bank to operate on their soil and undermine that motto.

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1) The Iron Bank doesn't really give a damn where it's customers uses their money or what for, as long as they pay their debts. They are happy to fund various sides in a war or give huge loans to kings, or even allow slavers to use their bank for financial transactions. Doesn't mean they support any of it, it's just good business. 

So they are not actually engaged in slavery , but the economic affects of Danny's politics in Mereen has affected their customers and probably some of the returns they get on their investments. 

2) Why did Jon not want to reveal he had died and come back? He could have used it to prove his story true as he could have said a red priestess brought him back. They just happen to have the same priestess on the island without their knowledge, she could have confirmed it. That would make his other story about the Night King seem more real. 

3) Jamie Lannister is just a waste of time now. He had something going for him in earlier seasons, when with Brienne or saving Tyrion. Now he's just a wet noodle who cannot resist his sister. It's getting a bit daft, every time you think he's had enough and will wake up yet still he falls back in bed with her. It's mind boggling. 

4) what is with all these massive fleets and armies that keep appearing out of nowhere? Has Euron got some sort of cloning device and wormhole tech so he can instantly just around with his never ending fleet of 1000 ship?!?

And where do the Lannisters get so many soldiers from anyway. If most are in KL or on the march with Kingslayer then have they just abandoned their homelands completely?

I must admit the faster pace is nice and all to move things along but that no excuse for stupid teleporting characters or armies that just grow up from nowhere. 

Edited by Lordsteve666

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38 minutes ago, fairwarging said:

So who will inherit Dorne and the Reach? I suppose the winning queen will put her choice in place.  Where are Edmure and Sweet Robin? 

The Reach: Randyll Tarly, obviously. Of course if Dany wins, she could attaint him as a traitor and replace him with his heir (Dickon), or attaint the whole line and put anyone that she wants in charge. But until then, it's Randyll.

Dorne: Presumably Sarella Sand, probably with some cousin we've never heard of as regent, and we'll never hear what happens to Dorne because they're no longer relevant to the story. (I'm assuming the whole Alleras story from the novels isn't going to be in the show, and Sarella will stay an off-screen character whose name only appears on the DVD extras.)

Edmure: Presumably still a Lannister prisoner. Walder Frey was ambiguous about exactly where he was being held and by whom, but we didn't see Arya freeing him at Riverrun, which they probably would have shown us if it had happened.

Robin: Somewhere in the Vale; maybe still at Runestone, under protection of Royce's castellan. He is still Warden of the East, but who cares, when LF, Royce, and his entire army are all at Winterfell without him? He'll reappear when he's important to Sansa's story, probably after LF is killed.

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Doesn't cease to amaze the level of miserable whining about the show on this forum, so many entitled people. I personally choose to enjoy it. Good to see constructive, balanced criticism however.

Edited by Fiery Heart

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23 minutes ago, Lordsteve666 said:

3) Jamie Lannister is just a waste of time now. He had something going for him in earlier seasons, when with Brienne or saving Tyrion. Now he's just a wet noodle who cannot resist his sister. It's getting a bit daft, every time you think he's had enough and will wake up yet still he falls back in bed with her. It's mind boggling. 

 

I agree that Jaime was a more entertaining characters earlier on in the story when he was with Brienne or when we could see him interacting with Tyrion. The past couple of seasons, his character has dried up a bit, but I have a good feeling about him this season.

Remember the Valonqar prophecy? Every prophecy made about Cersei has so far come true. Maggy said she Cersei will die at the hands of her little brother. Most, myself included, believe that to be Jaime rather than Tyrion.

Last episode, with the Olenna scene, we saw more signs of Jaime's conflicted feelings towards his sister. He loves her, but deep down he is starting to see the monster that everyone else sees in her. I think the conflict between the two of them will rise even further when he tells her the truth about who really murdered Joffrey.

I would be very shocked and disappointed if it wasn't to be that way. To me, it seems to be setting it up for Jaime to finally turn on Cersei and fulfil the prophecy.

Jaime is one of the more interesting characters in the series. He is a good man deep down; he is nothing like Cersei, Tyrion or Tywin. It's just a shame his storyline has hit a plateau for a few seasons but I can see it picking up again from now.

 

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23 minutes ago, Fiery Heart said:

Doesn't cease to amaze the level of miserable whining about the show on this forum, so many entitled people. I personally choose to enjoy it. Good to see constructive, balanced criticism however.

Constructive = positive?

Also, I don't think you know what entitlement means.

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1 hour ago, falcotron said:

The Reach: Randyll Tarly, obviously. Of course if Dany wins, she could attaint him as a traitor and replace him with his heir (Dickon), or attaint the whole line and put anyone that she wants in charge. But until then, it's Randyll.

 

There is another heir. Sam ;-)

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8 hours ago, Frances Bean Corbray said:

or Dr. Branhattan.

<>

 

Nice.

1 hour ago, athmystikal said:

But it has been stated that Bravos blocks or captures slave ships. If they go to that much trouble to disrupt slave trade, I don't think they will allow the Iron Bank to operate on their soil and undermine that motto.

Exactly.  

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2 minutes ago, Marlom said:

There is another heir. Sam ;-)

Not as a brother of the Night's Watch though.

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1 hour ago, Pyat>Daenerys said:

Constructive = positive?

Also, I don't think you know what entitlement means.

I don't think you know what constructive means. Or entitlement.

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1 hour ago, Ser Quork said:

Not as a brother of the Night's Watch though.

There will be no Night's Watch at the end of GoT. ;-)

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