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23 hours ago, Lee Chapman said:

Yes, but Bran's title is beyond dispute.  It may ultimately not matter what he thinks.

 The King of the North appointed Sansa the Warden, she cannot be his queen.

Danarys wanted to anoint Jon her Warden of the North as she does not recognize any of the thrones as in anyone else's hands.  (Uh, butts)

maester aemon refused the crown and his brother took the iron throne. If someone refuses it they don't have to take it. Also I have a feeling that given dany's current situation and the previews that we saw for next week that she may be more accepting of a king of the north

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22 hours ago, Lee Chapman said:

But ultimately Tyrions instincts about what kind of man Jon is will be all that matters.  (His queen agreed to his assessment against her own judgement)

Those trivial losses and victories against the living will matter for nothing once The Real War has begun.

Jon now has the only thing he needed to go to Danys home for...

(The Unsullied still have 3 dragons, unused so far...)

Oh I know she won't get rid of tyrion but so far his council has gotten her screwed over badly. And given that they don't even want her to use the dragons going to get the unsullied using their advice would be impossible.

It only takes one arrow they said. Then put her in heavy armor people

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2 hours ago, athmystikal said:

But it has been stated that Bravos blocks or captures slave ships. If they go to that much trouble to disrupt slave trade, I don't think they will allow the Iron Bank to operate on their soil and undermine that motto.

yes but not doing it in their city and getting money for something that will happen anyways somewhere else is a very different thing. How often do people and organizations go with something that they loathe and wouldn't want on their soil yet still work with when it means they can make a ton of money. The slave trade is pure evil but from a financial stand point it is incredibly profitable. And the iron bank is in the end a financial institution

Edited by snow is the man

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Please refresh my memory.  I'm getting confused about book vs. show.  

In the show, is this the first time the audience heard who really killed Joff or had that been mentioned before?

Also, in the show, was valonquar mentioned as part of Maggy's prophecy?  I only remember gold will be their crowns...

Thanks.

 

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13 minutes ago, nara said:

 

In the show, is this the first time the audience heard who really killed Joff or had that been mentioned before?

Also, in the show, was valonquar mentioned as part of Maggy's prophecy?

In Season 4. LF told it Sansa.

Valonquar Theory: No. It's just a book theory. Was never mentioned in the show.

Edited by Marlom

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Also, did anyone think of Tywin saying "any man who says I am the King, is no true King at all" while Dany was sprouting off against Jon?

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5 minutes ago, Crona said:

Also, did anyone think of Tywin saying "any man who says I am the King, is no true King at all" while Dany was sprouting off against Jon?

Yes, Joffrey was an evil little brat but at least he had the Almighty Tywin conducting things. Nobody fancies putting Danaerys in her place at the moment.

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4 minutes ago, Parkourya Stark said:

Yes, Joffrey was an evil little brat but at least he had the Almighty Tywin conducting things. Nobody fancies putting Danaerys in her place at the moment.

I just don't get how Dany conducted herself was anyway acceptable and I thought Jon came unprepared but Dany was horrible. And Tyrion loses so much IQ points right now. Telling Jon to kneel if he doesn't really want to rule, yes he should kneel without consulting the North and Sansa, having Dany forcing them to fight a war they don't want, and get stabbed again

Edited by Crona

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Does Tyrion know about Jons "rebirth"?

Or was it only a "i don't know, so ask him yourself" when Daenerys asks him, what Davos ment?

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I don't know if it wasn't already discussed somewhere but can someone confirm please if dragonglass can really kill the wights?

Jon has been saying the wights are vulnerable to dragonglass for two episodes in row. In the books Sam kills a White Walker with dragonglass but when he later tries to kill a wight with it, the dragonglass shatters and does nothing. I honestly don't remember if someone ever attempted to kill a wight with dragonglass in the show. I only managed to find that even in the show Sam killed a WW with dragonglass. So can someone confirm if the wights are or aren't killable by dragonglass, please?

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9 minutes ago, Marlom said:

Does Tyrion know about Jons "rebirth"?

Or was it only a "i don't know, so ask him yourself" when Daenerys asks him, what Davos ment?

I don't think Tyrion knows... and it's very unclear who exactly knows? The Night's Watch, for certain.

Do the Northern Lords discuss his "rebirth"? I assumed that was why they didn't behead him as a Night's Watch "deserter." Strange that such a phenomenon would be kept secret for long, though. 

My guess is that Jon still doesn't know what to make of his "resurrection," and is keeping it on the DL. 

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1 hour ago, Marlom said:

In Season 4. LF told it Sansa.

Valonquar Theory: No. It's just a book theory. Was never mentioned in the show.

Thanks!  

1 hour ago, Crona said:

Also, did anyone think of Tywin saying "any man who says I am the King, is no true King at all" while Dany was sprouting off against Jon?

LOL.  She would benefit from hearing more about how Jon was elected to his roles twice (LC and KITN).  On a side note, with some of the great houses (Martells, Tyrells, Freys, and Baratheons) out of commission (and the Lannisters, Tullys, and Arryns possibly not far behind) Westeros may be in a good position for adopting democratic governance.  The Greyjoys already kinda have a version of democracy with the Kingsmoot and Jon has been influenced by the NW LC selection process.  

Also, the Targs got Westeros by war and lost it by war.  As someone mentioned above, the Targs broke faith by killing the Starks and "kidnapping" Lyanna. Dany seems to conveniently forget that when she talks about being the rightful ruler and demanding allegience. It's one thing if she is deliberately forgetting it to legitimize herself, but I think she really believes it.  Tyrion or Jon should remind her.

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1 hour ago, nara said:

Please refresh my memory.  I'm getting confused about book vs. show.  

In the show, is this the first time the audience heard who really killed Joff or had that been mentioned before?

Also, in the show, was valonquar mentioned as part of Maggy's prophecy?  I only remember gold will be their crowns...

Thanks.

 

I believe there was a scene in which Olenna tells Margery of her role. She says something like "you don't think I'd let my only granddaughter marry a monster, do you?" 

One interesting thing: Cersei killed Ellaria's daughter in the same way Ellaria had killed Myrcella (just made it as gruesome and painful as possible for Ellaria). 

They poisoned Olenna without knowing Olenna had murdered Joff by poison. Cersei is very intentional and here, she unintentionally mirrored her son's death. By the way: Do we know what kind of poison they used for Olenna? It's not what killed Joffrey, and Jaime advises there will be no pain. Think they used the Long Farewell? Doesn't seem to be the right choice for this circumstance.

I wonder if Jaime will actually tell Cersei? Hindsight is 20/20. I'm sure she would still hold Tyrion accountable, but imagine her frustration? She would want to make Olenna suffer, and now it's too late. 

 

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Just now, Reisendame said:

I believe there was a scene in which Olenna tells Margery of her role. She says something like "you don't think I'd let my only granddaughter marry a monster, do you?" 

One interesting thing: Cersei killed Ellaria's daughter in the same way Ellaria had killed Myrcella (just made it as gruesome and painful as possible for Ellaria). 

They poisoned Olenna without knowing Olenna had murdered Joff by poison. Cersei is very intentional and here, she unintentionally mirrored her son's death. By the way: Do we know what kind of poison they used for Olenna? It's not what killed Joffrey, and Jaime advises there will be no pain. Think they used the Long Farewell? Doesn't seem to be the right choice for this circumstance.

I wonder if Jaime will actually tell Cersei? Hindsight is 20/20. I'm sure she would still hold Tyrion accountable, but imagine her frustration? She would want to make Olenna suffer, and now it's too late. 

 

THANKS!  

Considering that Cersei wiped out Olenna's entire family, she may consider that she was able to sufficiently torture Olenna for Joff's murder.  Show Cersei might be that rational, even if Book Cersei is not.

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2 hours ago, nara said:

In the show, is this the first time the audience heard who really killed Joff or had that been mentioned before?

 

In addition to already mentioned scenes. In Season 5 (ep 7, "The Gift"), when LF and Olenna meet in one of LF's brothels (now defunct due to the Sparrows), she says:

"I promise you, Lord Baelish, that our fates are joined. Together we murdered a king. If my house should fall, I will have nothing to hide."
 

But of course she doesn't mention it during her conversation with Jaime. Now it's quite satisfactory for her to be seen as the only person who is responsible for his son's murder.

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22 minutes ago, Pumpkin G. Snark said:

In addition to already mentioned scenes. In Season 5 (ep 7, "The Gift"), when LF and Olenna meet in one of LF's brothels (now defunct due to the Sparrows), she says:

"I promise you, Lord Baelish, that our fates are joined. Together we murdered a king. If my house should fall, I will have nothing to hide."
 

But of course she doesn't mention it during her conversation with Jaime. Now it's quite satisfactory for her to be seen as the only person who is responsible for his son's murder.

Thanks!  Man, I must really not have been paying attention the past couple of seasons.

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1 hour ago, nara said:

THANKS!  

Considering that Cersei wiped out Olenna's entire family, she may consider that she was able to sufficiently torture Olenna for Joff's murder.  Show Cersei might be that rational, even if Book Cersei is not.

It's funny because Cersei felt completely justified in murdering the Tyrell heirs, well before she knew Olenna was behind Joff's murder.

I can imagine Cersei being maddened by the fact that Olenna had the last word. Had Cersei known the truth when she sent Jaime after Olenna, I'm sure she would have planned something far more brutal in addition to blowing up the sept. Doubt Jaime would have talked her out of flaying Olenna, or whipping her naked through the streets. :o 

I'm sad to see Olenna go, but this is probably the best way she could have made her exit. Graceful. bold, and with little regret. She makes murdering a kid sound commendable. Olenna also wasn't born a Tyrell, and while she worked hard to advance her family, she always mocked the "Golden Rose" and didn't seem surprised the house had fallen-- just sad. 

Dany really should have listened to Olenna's advice. Everyone who urged her to attack Cersei immediately... all captured or killed. Blind faith in the Queen has a bad track record. 

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I just wonder what is up with Bran?  He has become emotionless, almost robotic like.     During episode 1 I just thought that he was way tired but, now it just seems to be getting worse.     I don't know if it has to do with all that greenseeing all at once.  Maybe, he is just becoming overloading & something has to give.   Though, he said that he has to put the pieces together.  But 1 thing he does know, is that he has to talk to Jon.

 

Littlefinger cracked me up, he was trying to block the other men from getting to close to sansa.  Kind of reminded me when In the Small Council in KL, Varys & Littlfinger rushing to sit next to Twyin & Tyrion pulling the chair away to sit as far away as possible. 

 

Littlefinger did not like it that the Meaister(sp) was going to go through Luin's Scroll.  The look that he gave him, the new meaister is not safe at all.  

 

I really liked the show but, this season so far feels like a set up to next season.  Just putting all the pieces in place.

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5 hours ago, snow is the man said:

maester aemon refused the crown and his brother took the iron throne. If someone refuses it they don't have to take it. Also I have a feeling that given dany's current situation and the previews that we saw for next week that she may be more accepting of a king of the north

If Jon winds up protecting her from the undead cause he has an army equipped with dragon glass, then yes, she'll probably be fine with whatever he calls himself.

Will the people of the North feel the same way, who knows?

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5 hours ago, snow is the man said:

Oh I know she won't get rid of tyrion but so far his council has gotten her screwed over badly. And given that they don't even want her to use the dragons going to get the unsullied using their advice would be impossible.

It only takes one arrow they said. Then put her in heavy armor people

Tyrion is no military genius.  But I believe rumor has it that Ser Jorah is, and he looks to be completely cured (by Sam).

And speaking of Rumours, it may be that Jon himself can ride the dragons, and her people will have no problem with risking him...

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