[Poll] How would rate episode 703?

[Talking Hodor]

On 31.7.2017 at 11:44 AM, RedShirt47 said:

My one gripe was that the Iron Bank of Braavos suffered a down turn in its slave trade. The whole point of Braavos was to escape slavery. No way is the Iron Bank funding slavery anywhere. But meh, a minor plot point.

Oh yeah, I called them out on that. Another thing, how on earth is Cersei going to pay them back in two weeks? I guess Highgarden is sitting on a mountain of gold.

[Krishtotter]

1.  

8 hours ago, Rhollo said:

1/10

This was the worst episode in the series history.

A boring, B-movie level, melodramatic soap-opera, that can't even be saved anymore by actors that are way to good for this.

Can't even make fun of this anymore, I am done with watching.

That's much too harsh. 1? 

The first two episodes were significantly lacking. Without Martin's prose and with only a broad outline of events left for the showrunners to work with, the dialogue and pacing has suffered, not to mention some inconsistencies with plot as they are rushing towards the finish line and trying to tie up all the loose ends. Emilia Clarke still can't act to save herself. Some of the subtlety has been lost, as well as a focus on the finer details.

But come on, they have improved a great deal from last week. Fair is fair, I need to credit them when there is a genuine improvement and by any objective standard episode 3 was an improvement on the first two.

The Cersei-Ellaria-Tyenne scene was superbly acted and decently written.  

The parting shot from Olenna and her discussion with Jaime had good dialogue for a change, as did Tyrion with Jon and Davos in that scene before Dany's throne.  

It's hardly the worst in the show's history.  Not by a long shot. It has been virtually uniformly praised by professional critics and not without justification. In my humble estimation the episode is deserving of a solid 7 or perhaps (if I were feeling generous) even an 8 relative to what preceded it this season.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Krishtotter

[lakin1013]

6.  Lots of reunions and different dyads of people in conversation.  I would never expect to write that Bran's homecoming was the least affecting, but it was.  It also seemed to me that Sansa has become the Stark greeter.  She found and hugged Jon.  She hugged Bran home and we know Arya is on the way.  I think Sansa should wear a sash saying Official Winterfell Greeter.  WHY ON EARTH is Littlefinger following Sansa around like he is some trusted councilor?  Dude leaves an oil stain everwhere he walks.  Where did Meera go?

Ep was ok.  Jon and Tyrion talking was fine.  Jamie and Olenna was fine.  

 

[El Guapo]

2 hours ago, Sandokan I Ironborn said:

 

Dany's entire strategy has no sense lol, where his her interest by letting Jon mine the dragonglass.

I serisously have doubts on what Game of Thrones became.

Tyrion explained this pretty well. Dany has no use of dragonglass. She didn't even know it was there. But by letting Jon mine it she is showing some goodwill to someone who could be a potential ally and someone who may in fact bend the knee if you help him out.

[legba11]

14 hours ago, Frances Bean Corbray said:

LETS DO THIS

Again, Modified McShane Scoring System (MMSS) so we are starting at a baseline of 5 since for the third week in a row we are given Tits OR Dragons, not Tits AND Dragons.

 

 

I will nitpick, only because your reviews are always one of my favorites.  We saw both of Lena Headey's double's and all three dragons!

11 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

 

I don't even know how much time is supposed to have passed since the series began. Does anyone?

We have some idea.  Little Sam was born early in season 2 (am I remembering right?).  He was about 18 months old we saw him in episode 7.1.  He is the best timeline we have.

[nara]

3 hours ago, Talking Hodor said:

Rape...you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. If he didn't want her to blow him, he would have just walked away. What's she going to do, bring the topic up in the small council meeting and force him into fellatio with a royal edict?

He was ambivalent about sex at first, and then she convinced him otherwise through the art of seduction.

If you've noticed, pretty much every time the show has them having sex, it starts out with one of them being reluctant about it and then warming up to it later. It's probably the latent guilt over incest that needs to be overcome each time.

I think the poster was joking about it being rape and referencing the outrage over the botched sept sex scene.

I thought Jaime's reluctance was due to embarrassment about his hand.  But your ideas about guilt is interesting.  

[Frances Bean Corbray]

1 hour ago, legba11 said:

I will nitpick, only because your reviews are always one of my favorites.  We saw both of Lena Headey's double's and all three dragons!

 

Tits have to be on camera long enough for me to remember them.  It's tantamount to how the ball (or puck) has to completely cross the goal line in soccer (or hockey).  And there's no replay review because the forums probably won't load while I'm trying to go back and edit the umpire's on-field decision is final.  If I genuinely forget, then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ but we do regret the error and in the name of science we at the MMSS Institute do pledge to try to better about accuracy in tit/dragon stat-tracking.

Same thing happened in Episode 1, sorta.  I have decided, in the interest of fairness and representation, that dong shots will count as a tit-equivalent since after all a portion of the population prefers to see that and has the same reaction to it.  So in retrospect I should have counted the cadaverous peter in the first episode.  But I didn't notice it.  Oops.  [We are still determining whether Direwolves will comparably count as a Dragon-equivalent but this project is on the back burner because lol they're all dead or written out].

We are also open to feedback on ass (which also featured prominently in the scene you referenced) and whether it should be considered a more gender neutral equivalent or if we should take a more sabermetric approach and attempt to accurately weigh an ass/titties/wang equivalent to WAR or VORP.

 

[legba11]

Has your T/D accounting accounted for the recent decline in crude oil futures?

[LucyMormont]

11 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

It's going to be very interesting to see how Bran reacts when he first sees Arya and/or Jon.  His complete lack of emotion when Sansa first hugged him was telling.  He has either developed a strong type of emotional autism or he has seen something in the future about Sansa that has killed all emotion in him towards her.

I hope you are right, @Ser Gareth and this is related only to Sansa for some yet-to-come reason. But sadly, I fear that it's not the case, on the contrary that they tried to highlight and make a point showing us his coldness and detachment, as to make the audience notice that this is not Bran Stark anymore... maybe he is not even human anymore, he is another thing or entity now.  Maybe the idea they try to comunicate is that the kind of power he  has now is too much for a human to bear. On the other side, if he is an emotionaly autist as you worded it, that  means that he does not give a sh*t about anyone, and then I don't know what is the point in having a 3EC.
It seems ironic that we got that ridiculous LF monologue about "fighting every battle, everywhere, always in your mind", at the time we have a guy arriving  who can, literally,  do that . 

This of course is  personal, I know many fans would think otherwise. From day one (and day one was many years ago, when I started my long lasting love-hate relationship with the books)  I'm all team Stark, and the remaining Starks are all broken and twisted now. Unfortunately, this episode and Bran's attitude makes me think that the damage is irreparable, and gives me an idea of what kind of bittersweet ending we migh get, and it's one all-bitter-nothing-sweet for me. Even if some or all of them get to the end alive, the things yet to come won't help to fix them a bit. 
Anyway, I have to remind myself that this is just entertainment, perhaps I emotionally invested too much in some fictional characters. 

[SansaJonRule]

5 hours ago, legba11 said:

IWe have some idea.  Little Sam was born early in season 2 (am I remembering right?).  He was about 18 months old we saw him in episode 7.1.  He is the best timeline we have.

Good point, didn't think of that.  Although it seems an awful lot to happen in such a short amount of time, especially taking into account how long it takes people to travel anywhere.  If they would say how old Sansa is now, that would help.  They made a point of telling her age in season 1 and 3.

 

1 hour ago, LucyMormont said:

@Ser Gareththey tried to highlight and make a point showing us his coldness and detachment, as to make the audience notice that this is not Bran Stark anymore... maybe he is not even human anymore, he is another thing or entity now.  Maybe the idea they try to comunicate is that the kind of power he  has now is too much for a human to bear.

 I'm all team Stark, and the remaining Starks are all broken and twisted now. 

I said as much about Bran in my first post.  To see and know what he does would make a person insane if they could not totally emotionally detach themselves.  The first 3ER was hardly warm and fuzzy.

I'm with you on team Stark, but I think saying they are all twisted is too far. (Cersei, Ramsey, Joffrey, they're twisted.) They are definitely all deeply damaged, and who wouldn't be?  What main characters in this show aren't damaged?

[SansaJonRule]

7 hours ago, Talking Hodor said:

Negative: Dany being such a hypocrite. You expect everyone to believe you walked through two burning infernos and brought dragons back to life, which you can mind control - kinda, and you can't believe in White Walkers when the most serious man in Westeros tells you they're real.

The Lords of Westeros forgetting to garrison and defend strategic castles properly. Hmm, this kinda goes back a few episodes and seasons. Let me count: Winterfell got sacked by a dude without a sack. Stannis forgot all about Dragonstone and presumably Storm's End when he went north. All of Westeros forgot to man the castles along the Wall. Impregnable Casterly Rock got taken and still looked like a defeat (ooohhh, right, we forgot to defend our ships...). Highgarden got taken, really? Olenna, you might have lost about ten soldiers total since season 1, how could you not defend against a severely depleted Lannister Army? Who the fuck's guarding the Vale? Or the Twins? It's like medieval whack-a-mole here with these castles.

 

I didn't expect Dany to believe Jon right away.  Then there would have been no clash of wills between them and I think that would have been a let down.  Plus, it emphasizes her arrogance and obsession with the iron Throne so that she is blind to all else.  In her private conversation with Jon it was obvious she was already beginning to reconsider.

I think we are supposed to overlook a lot for the sake of moving the story along.  However, it was said more than once early in the season that the NW just didn't have enough men to man all the castles, and that's due to the rest of the people in the land being taught WW no longer existed.  I also think we are supposed to presume that a lot of the Tyrells bannermen defected to Cersei with Tarly, so their force could have been severely depleted. 

[The Knight of Flours]

13 hours ago, Talking Hodor said:

He was ambivalent about sex at first, and then she convinced him otherwise through the art of seduction.

I don't believe 'no' is considered by most courts to be 'ambivalent' and when Cersei said 'no' to him in the Sept of Baelor, next to Joff's body, many considered it rape.

[Rhollo]

18 hours ago, Krishtotter said:

1.  

That's much too harsh. 1? 

The first two episodes were significantly lacking. Without Martin's prose and with only a broad outline of events left for the showrunners to work with, the dialogue and pacing has suffered, not to mention some inconsistencies with plot as they are rushing towards the finish line and trying to tie up all the loose ends. Emilia Clarke still can't act to save herself. Some of the subtlety has been lost, as well as a focus on the finer details.

But come on, they have improved a great deal from last week. Fair is fair, I need to credit them when there is a genuine improvement and by any objective standard episode 3 was an improvement on the first two.

Maybe the episode wasn't so bad in itself but more the straw that broke the camels back for me, because it included so many things that have become annoying about the show and made me like it less and less over the last few seasons:

- The culmination of a 2 season long plot that did absolutely not justify itself because of the lack of consequences and the resolution being ridicolously quick and easy (Jorahs greyscale)

- A lazy rehash of an previous scene (Ellaria, Yara and Tyene doing a "walk of shame")

- REVELING in violence topped of with a villain monologue (Cersei in the dungeons)

- Euron, who has quickly replaced the Sand Snakes as the shows most irritating, out of place character (the SS felt like straight out of a campy Conan adaption, Euron would be fitting as ... I don't know ... leader of some space bandits in a Firefly-knockoff?)

- The ongoing assassination of Jamie's character

- Talk about fingering bums

- An incredibly underwhelming Stark reunion

- Littlefinger spouting pseudo-clever nonsense

- Not even trying to make the logistics of war seem remotely plausible. Armies just pop up where and when they are needed.

[Goldhands]

- Dragonstone: The Jon and Dany scenes were pretty nice and well written overall. The Davos + Missandei and Mel + Varys dialogoes were pretty weird though. I also found it weird that Jon needs to be reminded by Tyrion that he's here for the Dragonglass (how does Tyrion even know that he wanted to ask after something else?). 6/10 overall, could've been much worse.

 

- Winterfell: I didn't like how they wanted to present Sansa as a good leader, that was way too on the nose and it also seems unlikely that she has more idea from that kind of stuff than the maester etc. Littlefinger's behaviour was pretty stupid once again and I think at this point it's obvious that the writers don't know what to do with him (same with Varys). I don't think I've to talk much about the Bran + Sansa reunion, that was just bad. 2/10 overall

 

- King's Landing: Euron marching through the city was decent I guess, nothing really great, but nothing bad either. I loved the way Cersei dealt with Ellaria and her daughter, that was pretty cool and much more fitting than letting the Mountain rape her or whatever. I didn't like that Jaime once again had sex with Cersei, I just think it's kinda opposing to his character development. The Iron Bank stuff was ok, I liked that they bring that plotline up again and I don't have problems with them being involved in the slave trade. Money corrupts anything, right? 7/10 overall

 

- Casterly Rock and Highgarden: I liked Jaime's strategic move there, that was pretty nice, his military development in the last two seasons is pretty cool anyway (book stuff of course). But I think at this point we just have to ignore anything related to the map, I don't think the writers are really giving a fuck about that anymore. I didn't like at all how easily Highgarden was taken and I liked the explanation even less. "We never were good fighters"?! I mean this is the house with the biggest army in Westeros and the house of Loras Tyrell, one of the best knights. A much more fitting explanation would've been that just all of the Tyrell bannermen went over to the Lannisters, but that explanation is not really given. I also think that they really should've shown some of the fighting, but that's the budget I guess. The final dialogue between Olenna and Jaime was just gold of course. 7/10 overall

 

Overall I'd give this episode a 6/10, the Winterfell stuff just ruined a lot for me, could've been a really good episode otherwise. This way it was just a decent one.

 

Edit: Fuck forgot about the Citadel... That was just weird. Why the hell is Jorah healed so quickly from the supposedly most deadly disease in Westeros? Why did they give him Greyscale in the first place? Why is Sam not really punished?

Edited August 2, 2017 by Goldhands

[Robert Baratheon's hammer]

The most ridiculous part of the episode was by far Sam somehow healing Jorah with no experience and the maester just not caring. Wouldn't the cure of greyscale be a pretty major thing in Westeros?

As for the Dragonstone scenes I thought it did drag on a bit maybe because Kit and Emilia aren't the most charismatic actors. However I did like how both Jon and Danny did not budge on their views and did not come to an immediate solution to Jon refusing to bend the knee. My guess is the show's solution to this problem is for them to marry. They're both available after-all and both need each other. It would unite the kingdoms, Jon gets to remain king which will keep the north happy and Danny becomes queen of the seven kingdoms which is what she thinks she was born to do. Thus the Kingdoms will be united in Ice and Fire against the others. Very predictable if this happens though.

Casterly Rock and High Garden didn't look as good as I wanted but I guess there's a budget. I do hope there is some consequences to Tyrion's terrible plan and strategic failings. Danny at this stage should really sack him as hand of the queen. I'm not sure why she'd give it to him in the first place, when she returned back to Mereen the city was at war and to reward Tyrion she makes him hand of the queen. She doesn't have the best judgement for a queen.

Euron was once again the funniest and most entaining character and some spice that the show has been missing. His dialogue with Jamie is a very good watch. Lena continues to do a good job at playing cersei, definitely one of the best actors on the show. Although I am not convinced about the Iron bank backing Cersei after how she treated them. Danny still has three dragons, thousands of Dothraki and Unsullied army so its an extremely risky choice backing Cersei but if it makes the plot more interesting why not.

I've seen people complain about Bran's emotions or lack of but I liked it because it showed there are consequences to being the three eyed raven and having supernatural abilities. There are pros and cons to everything in life. Also Brans has in a short space of time absorbed lifetimes of information of course he maybe a bit robotic as a result. 

Littlefinger hypnotizing speech about thinking about everything was very vague. He was one of the best villains on the show but it does seem that his purpose on the show is finished and that it is only a matter of time until he gets killed off. The just don't know what to do with him anymore and when you think about all the ciaos he has caused for his ladder his death will have been a longtime coming.  

Finally I am a bit bemused at out easily the Tyrells got wiped out. Weren't the Tyrells meant to have laid seige outside of kingslanding? How has Euron got his fleet all the way around Westeros while the Tyrells have done absolutely nothing and what's the situation in Dorne shouldn't their army be on the move as their leaders Obara and the sand snakes have been captured and some killed. Did Obara actually rule in Dorne because the show never really made that clear? The whole Dorne plot in the show has been a bit of a cluster fuck and I wasn't even a big book Dorne fan. Another thing who owns the Storm-lands since Stannis died? Does he still have men guarding that castle? The show could clear this up in a matter of seconds and it would make the situation far clearer.

  Anyway got a bit side tracked but I am a bit sad Olenna has died as she was one of the best actors on the show, a traditional old school English actress. Her scene with Jamie at the end was a nice farewell to her character and I enjoyed it. 

I'd give this episode a 6 - 7.

[JagLover]

Only rated it a 6 (the lowest of the season so far).

Some fairly major issues with it IMO.

I can understand the battles offscreen due to budgetary reasons, but how exactly did they storm Highgarden so easily?, maybe if they had shown it we could see why.

Also why exactly are we supposed to be rooting for Dany as the rightful queen?, when Cersei is such a strategic genius?. 

Nothing else really worked for me aside from Bran and Cersei's revenge scene. 

 

Edited August 3, 2017 by JagLover

[Nadalia]

This episode could have been better, but it still whet my appetite for the overall ongoing story. Dany finally meeting Jon Snow seemed appropriate as to where the characters stand as far as circumstances. Dany keeping Jon Snow from leaving? She obviously doesn't know normal etiquette in Westeros and her advisers are lacking in teaching her proper protocol. 

Euron is a great villain though. Still can't stand Cersei but felt she was vindicated in her dealing with the Sands. 

I love that at least the show is moving the story forward. I'm too impatient for the damn books to come out. I'll be senile by that time. At least the show will give me some kind of closure. 

[Rhollo]

2 hours ago, JagLover said:

I can understand the battles offscreen due to budgetary reasons, but how exactly did they storm Highgarden so easily?, maybe if they had shown it we could see why.

Because the Tyrells aren't good fighters, according to Olenna. It's a pretty stupid explanation, but it's the one the writers gave us.

[Gaz0680]

1 hour ago, Rhollo said:

Because the Tyrells aren't good fighters, according to Olenna. It's a pretty stupid explanation, but it's the one the writers gave us.

We should all be used to stupid explanations from the writers by now. We dont have to like them or accept them, but by now they shouldnt exactly surprise anyone.

[legba11]

The writers used that reason for this episode.  In all previous episodes, the Tyrell army was a force.  I guess the Tarly army was the only power.  It's bad writing, but they go worse than that... often...