[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, RhaenysB said:

By the way. 

Why is Jon's resurrection a secret? Isn't that the reason why it was okay for him to leave the Night's Watch? Why can't Davos say it? Is being resurrected like wearing crocs with socks in Westeros or wtf? 

On the one hand, it would lend credence to the idea of an 'army of the dead'....OTOH, it would make you a zombie just like the army of the dead.  But that scene was really poorly constructed, making Jon, again, look like a fool and Dany look like an entitled brat.  If some rando showed up ranting about the army of the dead, you'd get him a maester and some milk of the poppy.  Everyone in the show now is incapable of any strategy, but since the 'meetings' are all strategy meetings everyone comes off as dumb.  

[ramla]

" Why does Jon need a knight? one night against 100,000 Dothraki, seems pretty pointless. "
Well the point is he's a King and his life matters. He still should have guards of note. Not just a group of soldiers with him. Was there no knights left in the north? While it wouldn't be much use against 100K. It would be pretty standard to move with some protection.

" We see in the conversation from Melisandre and Lord Varys its anchored in the bay. "
I thought that was one of the ironborns ships coming back from the battle bringing word of what happened to the fleet? Are you certain?

[legba11]

Oh, I forgot.  The intelligence agencies make no sense.  Varys is the master, yet he doesn't know that Mellisandre burned Shireen?  Half of Stanni's troops defected because of that.  There is likely no one in Westeros who doesn't know this now.  He doesn't know Jon was killed and brought back?  Thousands of people know this in the North.    He knew nothing of Urine's fleet and the Lannister army parading south.

 

This in a world where Cersei and her Varys lite seem to know everything.  You'd think Varys would have gotten some control over his birds in the seasons since he fled.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

11 hours ago, Vaea said:

I think that the show has fused victarion and euron together, and my guess would be that in the book, victarion takes out asha and euron takes out the unsullied.

LOL  I guess you think Victarion is making it out of Slavers Bay?  I suppose it could happen.  I'm just thinking that losing Vic offers up the chance to cull the POVs, since so many are gathered there at the end of ADWD and beginning of TWOW. 

[StuSeaworth]

21 minutes ago, ramla said:

" Why does Jon need a knight? one night against 100,000 Dothraki, seems pretty pointless. "
Well the point is he's a King and his life matters. He still should have guards of note. Not just a group of soldiers with him. Was there no knights left in the north? While it wouldn't be much use against 100K. It would be pretty standard to move with some protection.
 

Knighthood is associated with the faith of the 7, which very few northern houses followed. So it is true that there are really not any northern houses with Knights.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

So which is worse as an adaptation: The Hobbit Trilogy or season 5-7 of GOT?

[A bowl of brown]

https://m.imgur.com/a/CrxVK

Pretty good

[Jordan La Cabra]

31 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

I have read many spoilers and without spoiling, you are probably partially right.  But even if he ends up some kind of ethical hero, or heroic end, he is just so damaged by intermittent character disorder that, as a viewer, I do not think I will care.  

When I watched Jaime listening closely to Olenna, I thought he realized that he was right about Tyrion, and that Tyrion had NOT killed Joffrey.

I think Jaime's story has been bubbling for the past couple of seasons. His relationship with Cersei is deteriorating and subtly and probably more slowly than we like, he is turning to see what she really is. 

I don't think the Valonqar prophecy has been touched on much, if at all, in the show but due to it the only way I can see Cersei come to an end is due to Jaime.

Once upon a time he was my favourite POV character but both the show and books have been guilty of stalling his progression but I think this season and in WoW will see Jaime's story finally coming good again.

[darmody]

7 hours ago, SweetPea said:

Why can't anyone in this show speak plainly? Everyone is talking in riddles.

Jon just throws in the phrase "army of the dead" without any explanation at all. WTF? How about you explain that the Other's have returned, unburnt bodies are being resurrected and they have already won two battles at Hardhome and at the Fist. Why don't you tell Dany that their ice swords shatter normal swords and that is why you need the dragonglass? No explanation at all. Jon is such an idiot. And where the fuck is Ghost?? Having Ghost would help estabilish Jon and Dany as equals, both having supposedly extinct creatures at their sides, and it would be at least a small proof that yes, magical things are happening in the north.

I think the Army of the Dead and the Knight King are supposed to be common knowledge, part of Westerosi lore. I don't know for sure, because the show doesn't tell me. I do know White Walkers are legendary. Jon mentioned them briefly, as I recall. 

The information-withholding on this show is ridiculous. Bran is Public Enemy #1 on this count, though that may be because they're writing him as somehow non-human. I don't know for sure, because the show won't tell me. 

 

[darmody]

5 hours ago, Boy and Girl Wadish said:

The common folk at King's Landing were never really bright fellas, to be honest. I think it's been established they're a fairly unpleasant lot that thrives on gossip, intrigue, and drama. 

The king committing suicide, St. Peter's blowing up with the Pope and their beloved queen inside, and the woman upon whom they spat as she walked naked through the streets being their new ruler isn't gossipy enough?

 

Instead, they're all, "Ooo, Euron! He so sexy!"

[meirtrust]

1) I think its so noticeable this season how cringy the quality of the dialogue has become, it comes off as a first draft that needs to be reworked a couple of times, I think its because they are rushing to get each season done. (Tyrion is basically a parody of himself at this point) 

D&D WE GE IT !!! YOU KEEP UP WITH GoT MEMES !! (So many jokes in your face!! Jon brooding, Danys many titles .... ugh)

2) For the life of me I will never accept that Randyll Tarly would betray house Tyrell like that !! ITS JUST DOESNT MAKE ANY FUCKING SENSE !! ESPECIALLY SINCE CERSEI FUCKING BLEW THE TYRELL HEIRS TO BITS !!!

3) BRAVOS WAS FOUNDED BY FREE, FORMER SLAVES !!!! WHY THE FUCK WOULD THE IRON BANK INVEST IN SLAVERY !!!!

4) BRAN ... wtf !!!! Watching Sansa get raped on TreeTV and then creepily telling her about it ... ughhh yuck 

 

 

[Lady Fevre Dream]

8 hours ago, SweetPea said:

Why can't anyone in this show speak plainly? Everyone is talking in riddles.

Jon just throws in the phrase "army of the dead" without any explanation at all. WTF? How about you explain that the Other's have returned, unburnt bodies are being resurrected and they have already won two battles at Hardhome and at the Fist. Why don't you tell Dany that their ice swords shatter normal swords and that is why you need the dragonglass? No explanation at all. Jon is such an idiot. And where the fuck is Ghost?? Having Ghost would help estabilish Jon and Dany as equals, both having supposedly extinct creatures at their sides, and it would be at least a small proof that yes, magical things are happening in the north.

Littlefinger speech was just ridiculous. Be everywhere always at all times in your mind. Okay, great advice.

Bran was equally ridiculous. "It's difficult to explain. You wouldn't understand. I can't be Lord of anything. I'm the three eyed raven. I see everything. You looked beautiful when Ramsay raped you." LOL. I have no words for this. 

The writers seem to think that nonsensical = mysterious and deep.

I just loved the way you summed up these scenarios.  That is all, wanted you to know, especially the Bran description.  I think I'm just going to call him Trance Boy from now on. 

[ramla]

47 minutes ago, StuSeaworth said:

Knighthood is associated with the faith of the 7, which very few northern houses followed. So it is true that there are really not any northern houses with Knights.

Thanks! i really didn't know that!

[Ser Quork]

1 hour ago, A bowl of brown said:

https://m.imgur.com/a/CrxVK

Pretty good

[Greywater-Watch]

3 hours ago, Bear42 said:

I actually laughed out loud at the RoboBran scene with Sansa.  Only because I couldn't help but picture the directors telling Isaac, "You need to portray someone who is completely detached, show no emotion at all, and try to avoid facial expressions."  Then IHR watches them shoot a Dany scene and he's like, "How the hell do I top that? Talk without moving my lips? Stop blinking or breathing?  She's the perfect three eyed raven."

I read all 12 pages at high concentration level. But at this point I had to comment and lough aloud. 10 out of 10 points for that!!!!

[Future Null Infinity]

I will rant about the dialogue between Jon and Danny, it was a long dialogue (maybe the longest dialogue between 2 characters in the history of GOT) but it was for me the most boring and cringiest babbling I ever seen, for an historic moment like this the quality was the lowest from D&D : "kneel", "no, I will not because the NK is coming", "Ok, go, you might be my prisoner", after some hours : "you can take the dragonglass", oh shut up for fuck's sake, when did kings and queens started talking like children?

As a viewer I didn't get anything valuable from that dialogue, it was a recitation of some old events, Daenerys didn't get nothing valuable from Jon in this monkey talkfest and neither did Jon.

[Greywater-Watch]

3 hours ago, legba11 said:

The Bran scene was just awful.  I wish Hodor hadn't held the door.  He could have grabbed Meera and Summer and ran for it.  Let them have Bran.

I like this one too!

[Lollygag]

I didn’t have as many problems with this episode. It didn’t measure up to the books at all, but I did see a conscious effort to focus more on writing and character.

Jon/Dany as expected: the two least developed characters played by the two weakest actors given poor writing. To make it all worse, they’ll probably be given loads of airtime in the future at the expense of better actors with more interesting story lines and probably all too often alone without the presence of more experienced actors to compensate for the deficiencies.

I’m not sure if it’s his acting or if they’ll going for overkill on how much Jon *hates* being king, fighting, etc, but his portrayal of Jon is really bothering me. Kit’s improved in general, but he just seemed to regress here back to his early days where he just looked confused/broody/terrified all of the time. The difference between book Jon and show Jon seems to increasing drastically at this point. Jon being completely unprepared is unbelievable. He was raised in the House of the Warden of the North with the same education as Robb (Ned probably hoping that Robert would cool off over time and then he could safely reveal Jon). Robb was a lot younger than Jon now and he knew that he had to fake it till you make it in regards to showing authority and general composure and competence. He was also LC. Standing there looking like a terrified mouse makes no sense even if that’s what he felt and preparing nothing to back his case is absurd. Show Jon is letting his feelings interfere with his duties and I’m really starting to hate him.

Some are wondering why Jon doesn’t kneel. He was elected and he left Winterfell on not super terms with his lords because of his recent decisions. If Jon kneels and the Lords aren’t sold on it (you can never trust a Targaryen), they can just fire Jon and name Sansa or Bran to his place which puts them directly in Dany’s crosshairs with Jon being caught in the middle.

LF’s weird speech makes more sense when accompanied by with Bran’s explanation of the 3ER. Still wish they’d phrased it better and not sure what the purpose was.

I’m gathering from Jaime’s and Olenna’s scene that Jaime is still with Cersei in part because he feels like he has nothing else left. Nice to hear that he’s rationalizing her choices as being for the greater good. At least they’re trying to address why he’s still with Cersei. Not satisfying at this point, but better than ignoring it all together.

Cersei poisons Tyene (?) with a kiss, then kisses Jaime. Olenna: “she’ll be the death of you”.

If Mel is as right about Varys dying as she is about bringing Ice and Fire together, then he has nothing to worry about.

Liked the Cersei Ellaria scene where we see both sides of the revenge game and how it can endlessly cycle instead of the “revenge is cool” scene at the beginning of the season.

Team Dany is losing all over the place because they haven’t familiarized themselves with their enemy which flies in the face of Tywin’s mastery of the mind game and Ned saying that he doesn’t participate in tourneys because he doesn’t want people to know what he can and can’t do. But Jaime has learned from Robb the importance of these mind games (?) D&D can’t write the Game of Thrones, and even if they could, they’ve butchered too many characters for it to make sense.

What’s with Missendei’s smirking?

 

[Dolorous Gabe]

2 hours ago, A bowl of brown said:

https://m.imgur.com/a/CrxVK

Pretty good

Thoroughly enjoyed that!

 

Olenna - "you're in love with a monster"

Jaime - "I stopped having character depth a few seasons ago don't worry about it"

[Rockroi]

I don't have a lot to complain about regarding what was one of the more satisfying episodes of GoT in the last three seasons.  

What I liked:

The Dance of Dragons: There is some criticism of the meeting between the two seminal characters of the show Jon Snow and Dany Targaryen and I can see that.  Why was Jon there if he did not intend to bend the knee?  It was in her letter and everything?  Why was Dany acting ... so ... so ... crazy?  

No doubt there is a lot to parse through, but I thought there were a few major issues that I thought- and I do nit say this lightly- that the show mailed.  First, Dany is a Queen.  Now, in season two, outside of Qarth, Dany just sounded like she was a bafoon boasting and complaining all in an effort to NOT show her dragons.  But the show was consistent- what seemed a little bit shrill and unhinged in Season Two now seems utterly ominous, foreboding and menacing in Season Seven.  Namely, that Dany demands obedience and respect.  And you may think that nuts, but that is something ALL leaders demand (in various forms and in various ways).  Stannis, Tywin, Robb, Tyrion etc etc etc - all of them have required some level of obedience.  Why would we expect more (or less) from Dany? 

Now, did Dany sound "crazy?"  I think she did, but I think that's because nobody has ever sat on an island with three dragons and treated with Dorne, Highgarden and the North in the span of a week and demand fealty.  So, ANYTHING she says may sound nuts when its fixed in the language of domination and power.  And I also think that we were supposed to hear that conversation as if we WERE Jon Snow- that this was a creative choice the show made -and its certainly what Jon heard. 

The next thing is that the show did a great job of showing how LITTLE this man and women trust ANYONE.  So that while they both may DEMAND from the other X or Y, they bot cannot GET trust.  Each of them have lived their whole lives being routinely betrayed.  As Dany herself said, when you are sold and raped you trust people less and less.  Jon- through Davos - said the same thing: that when you are killed and your family wiped out- you tend to need more than their word before you trust somebody.  

Next, Dany apologized.  And, yes, I guess you could say its silly for Dany to apologize to Jon for the murder of his uncle and grandfather, long before either of them were born.  But royalty has a long memory and their actions are a continuum.  And Dany's apology has some meaning and shows that she recognizes the shortcomings of her House and the Crown.  

This leads to their station- where are we now?  The show details that they are still dancing with one another; still trying to see what will become of all this.  And I think its something that the show MAY do well.  

Eventually.

Piece Removal: The end of Dorne - lets assume that's what we saw- was earned.  The Sand Snakes et al killed a child in the very same manor that the Freys killed Robb- they poisoned somebody under their own roof as an act of vengeance.  And I say, fuck Dorne.  

Dorne never came together in this show.  It never held up and NEVER made sense.  But one thing that was clear was that the Sand Snakes wanted to take power and wanted to goad Cersei/Tywin into war.  And so they rolled the dice.  And Lost.  Lost hard. Cersei- as vicious and malignant as she is - clearly and unambiguously won this fight.  The Dornish got what they deserved - even if it was horrible (*and it was- Cersei is sick).  But if she had her daughter killed for NO REASON AT ALL -why should retribution be unexpected?  Cersei- say what you will - remained true to herself and good to her word. 

I never liked Dorne (its only SLIGHTLY more palatable in the books).  They waited 15 years to be pissed about Elia?  The Red Viper is killed in a 100% fair fight ... so they demand war?  They have this plan to bring back a Targ ... but have done nothing for 15 years?  

Regardless, I think Cersei's final retribution against Dorne was fully justified, powerful and as legitimate as any other vengeance.  

The Switch and Bait:  Obviously, the uber-payoff this week was the attach on Casterly Rock which was immediately shown to be trap with the Lannister+Tarly forces striking Highgarden (easy victories are easy), isolating the unsullied by destroying their fleet, and ultimately leaving Lady Oleanna there for the last words.  This had a multitude of good to it.  First, it showed that the Lannisters still possess flashes of brilliance and strength; that Tyrion was not the only tricky Lannister; and that Jaime is trying, like mad, to be a good person when pretty much everyone else is a massive prick.  

Exit, then, Lady Olenna who stayed true to form to the very end.  Yet another loser in the Game of Thrones, Olenna gives a last little jab to Jaime admitting to slaying Joff at his wedding.  I am a little surprised that Jaime was surprised.  But it was a decent way to end Olenna- sure she lost, but she put up a good show.  

And with that we are left with Jaime who, while clearly the victor with Cersei has nothing to say.  Again, here is a man TRYING to be decent- he gave Olenna a clean death; free of pain or fear, and his payment is to be tortured by the woman.  In the book, Jaime is as witty as Tyrion, but the show kept Jaime's trap shut, which was a shame.  I think Jaime was denied a good word or two at the expense of Olenna.  Which is fair, but one of the strengths of the books is that EVERY character gets a word- here or there, even at the end.  I would have liked for Jaime to say something back at Olenna.  She should still get the last word, but more of an exchange would have been preferred.  But I guess for Jaime, the win is reward enough.  

Tyrion: Nice to see him again.  

On the Fence

The Most Awkward Family Reunion Since the Last Time Two Starks Got Together: I liked how the show reintroduced Bran to Sansa and her affection for him was not feigned.  BUt their discussion at the tree is just strange.  Why can't Bran be Lord of Winterfell?  Because he's now the Three Eyed Raven?  Or is it because of the new Proclamation that "Jon Snow IS King So Let's Not Complicate This With Hereditary Which is the Bedrock of the Law Here And Lets Just Get This Done.... Bran Who?"  I feel like the show is just paying lip-service to all the things that were problems.  Now they are ... ignored?  

And then Bran talked about Sansa's Rape. Because Stark's are all fucking idiots.  I do get it, though; Bran was trying to empathize with her and make her feel like she was not alone... which makes it even more fucking creepy.  It felt like the scene went too deep on the creep and not long enough to be meaningful.  

The Disappearing Dragons:  How did they miss them on the walk by?  Wouldn't they be looking ALL OVER for them?  How did that one sneak up on them on the walkway?  Is this too nitpicky?  Even I think it is!  

Cop Out:  Have Davos kill Mel.  WEAK. SAUCE. Seriously.  What a way to avoid resolution.  Lame.  

The Citadel- Now With Twice the Monotony:  Day and Mormont's time together was very rewarding and the two men seemed to have a simpatico that was worthwhile.  But the rest?  Kind of feel like we have to move on and fast.  This story seems to be at an end and maybe we can get going even if Jim Broadbent is fucking killing it.  

What I Disliked:

The Incredible Invisible Iron Fleet: How did they go from KL'ing right to Casterly Rock around the same time Dany's Fleet was going to Casterly Rock?  Its like in the EXACT same place?  People know that Fleets can be seen, right?  That they can get reports?  This is the SECOND week in a row that Euron's Fleet was basically Ninja'd.  They were here and then - POOF!!!! - they are THERE!  Fucking... how?  Physics still matter, right?  Fleets are not airplanes- they don't simply disappear in the clouds.  

Regardless, this was a great episode that, I think, made up a lot of lost time and brought the show up a few notches.  Really great to see House Lannister get in a few great licks before, you know, the dragons just win.  And I say give Jon and Dany a chance.  

Great episode.