[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

[madscientist596]

5 hours ago, Paid Debt Lannister said:

God I am also angry. Things are just ridiculous at this point

While I enjoy the show I am angry at what might have been.  George may right slow, but his narrative is pretty tight.  Tolkein Level.  Yes I love TLOTR movies. Yes I throw stuff at the TV every time I see them.  Its kinda love-hate.  Same here.

[madscientist596]

30 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

Why does it matter that neither Sam nor Randall have mentioned the fact Sam took Heartsbane.  The fact hasn't been relevant to anything so far this season?  It will probably come into play later.  Also, remember his father said Sam would never weild that sword.  Sam taking it shows how much his character has grown by having the guts to defy his father.

Also, why does everyone seem to want Jon and Dany to get together?  Of course they're going to have to develop a mutual respect and perhaps liking for each other, but what happens when Jon finds out she's his aunt?  Just what Westeros needs, more incest!

Cause first cousin is kinda accepted (even if it more aunt/nephew).   Kinda frowned on, but you know its ok.

 

Of course 

 

My theory is that Jon has to kill Dany to 'win'.  See Lightbringer--to reforge it, he has to slay his 'love' by quencing it with her body--implies some sort of sacrifice on Dany's part.  Also Dany is barren (or Book Dany is) so for Jon to 'Father' a Dynasty he ain't gonna be down with Dany.

Thats my theory and I'm stickin to it.  Dany must die (hence the ending being bittersweet) in order to regorge Lightbringer and defeat/end the Long Night.

 

[SansaJonRule]

3 minutes ago, madscientist596 said:

Cause first cousin is kinda accepted (even if it more aunt/nephew).   Kinda frowned on, but you know its ok.

 

Of course 

  Reveal hidden contents

My theory is that Jon has to kill Dany to 'win'.  See Lightbringer--to reforge it, he has to slay his 'love' by quencing it with her body--implies some sort of sacrifice on Dany's part.  Also Dany is barren (or Book Dany is) so for Jon to 'Father' a Dynasty he ain't gonna be down with Dany.

Thats my theory and I'm stickin to it.  Dany must die (hence the ending being bittersweet) in order to regorge Lightbringer and defeat/end the Long Night.

 

True that. I'm was at it from a modern day perspective.  I still don't want them together though, can't really say why except that at this point I think Jon is too good for her.

[snow is the man]

4 minutes ago, madscientist596 said:

Cause first cousin is kinda accepted (even if it more aunt/nephew).   Kinda frowned on, but you know its ok.

 

Of course 

  Reveal hidden contents

My theory is that Jon has to kill Dany to 'win'.  See Lightbringer--to reforge it, he has to slay his 'love' by quencing it with her body--implies some sort of sacrifice on Dany's part.  Also Dany is barren (or Book Dany is) so for Jon to 'Father' a Dynasty he ain't gonna be down with Dany.

Thats my theory and I'm stickin to it.  Dany must die (hence the ending being bittersweet) in order to regorge Lightbringer and defeat/end the Long Night.

 

I still think the bitter sweet ending is gonna be cersei blowing kings landing up and then bran's death at the hands of the WW.

In westero's marrying a cousin isn't that uncommon. I don't know if it is mentioned in the show but tywin was married to his cousin and had three children with her. I think if they go the route with dany and jon being together it would be more of a big deal because the targs had  married their brother and sister and would get critized more for anything near that.  Also The show hasn't mentioned dany not being able to have kids since the first season if I remember correctly. In the books dany is also not immune to fire like she is in the show. The scene where the dragons are born is more about the spell then anything else and while she has a resistance to fire she does get burned in one scene in the books.

[Edd Tollett's One Vote]

Can I also add to others previous complaints by just agreeing that Dany was unbearably arrogant this episode? Pretty much everything she said was so... just ugh! I literally rolled my eyes. Of course, scared Jon who didn't seem to want to meet her eyes was pretty bad as well. Am I supposed to think that at least if they get together, they'll balance one another out? Because one is too arrogant to root for and the other is way too humble to rule?

I also can't help but think that the entire Jon/Sansa and Jon/Dany plots would make a lot more sense had they had Sansa crowned Queen in the North last season. They want conflict between Jon and Sansa? Sansa as Queen doesn't want anything to do with Dany; Jon thinks they need to make friends just for the dragon glass. He ends up deciding to go anyway, she's his queen but the good of the realm is more important, or some such, and Sansa finally consents to send him with a couple men, since he's all she has left of her family and she cares too much about him. She actually tries to scheme and tells him to offer a marriage to Dany, and tell her that their children can unite the North and the South after her death (i.e. she'll make them her successors since, I'm assuming Sansa secretly has no desire to marry again, or it would at least make perfect sense if she didn't, or whatever maybe she doesn't offer that much of a concession, just the marriage, but knowing that they'll need to bargain because she's learnt how that works). Therefore, when Jon goes to Dany she can be equally petulant and offended that this supposed Queen wants her to marry her bastard brother. Jon tries to explain to her about the WWs and basically the same thing happens.. he gets kicked out before he can explain, St. Tyrion later comes and solves his problem, blah, blah, blah. It just seems like this would solve the problem of 1. Why the hell the North elected Jon Snow as King when Sansa had a better claim and the army that saved them, 2. The stupidity of "only a King can treat with a Queen", even though we know that kings/queens pretty much always send representatives in these sorts of situations (or would things totally have worked out if Robb had walked into Renly's camp to make an alliance himself? ), 3. The lack of an offer of marriage to unite the 2 kingdoms, since they could offer one and simply have it rejected (both with good reasons), 4. The fact that Jon wouldn't just kneel to Dany, since he literally couldn't as he wouldn't be King (I actually don't have a problem with the fact that he doesn't immediately bend the knee, but I know some people think he should have). Also, as a bonus, wouldn't that scene where they ramble Dany's titles for like a minute be even better if Davos had just been like... uh... this is Jon Snow... the -uh- bastard of Winterfell? ... Whatever. I guess I'm just writing fan fiction in my head now 

[Ser Didymus]

Ian Malcolm needs to kick down the HBO executives doors and deliver this speech again (with minor changes)

"I’ll tell you the problem with the scientific power ARTISTIC LICENSE that you’re using here: it didn’t require any discipline to attain it. You read what others had done and you took the next step. You didn’t earn the knowledge for yourselves, so you don’t take any responsibility… for it. You stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could and before you even knew what you had you patented it and packaged it and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox, and now you’re selling it. You want to sell it!

Your Scientists SHOW RUNNERS were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should.

[falcotron]

1 hour ago, Crona said:

I think people see at as the next step, plus Dany said that she was planning to marry in Westeros, and Jon happens to be the only king, other than Robin, but nobody wants to see that.

Robin's not a King. The Vale declared itself part of the Kingdom of the North, not an independent kingdom.

The only potential kings in Westeros are, in ascending order of silliness, are:

• Jon.
• Euron. Just need to steal him from Cersei, and hope your remaining supporters somehow forget that he killed most of their favorite people just last week.
• Theon. Assuming Euron kills Yara, he's presumably her heir. Not very useful for siring a dynasty, though.
• Yara. I think she claimed King, not Queen, but she's even less useful for siring a dynasty, plus the whole captured-by-Euron thing.
• Gendry. Accept the Baratheon claim, but not Cersei's coup, and he's the best heir left. Legitimize him, marry him, and unite the Targaryen and Baratheon claims. Too bad nobody cares about the Baratheon claim anymore.
• Tyrion. Accept that Cersei is legitimate Queen, remove the charge of treason from Tyrion, and voila, he's the heir. Marry him and unite the Targaryen and Baratheon/Lannister claims. It's actually not that different from Aegon III (or, in real life, Henry II), except for the minor problem that Tyrion has no one backing him for King, not even himself, and it would hardly be a way to get any remaining Lannister loyalists on-side.
• Bran. Accept Robb's election as KitN but not Jon's, and, unless anyone finds Robb's will, Bran's a king. Not that he'd take the job. Plus, he already knew you were going to bring it up, and wants to talk about that time you were raped instead.
• Tormund. The best candidate for Mance's successor as King Beyond the Wall, except for the minor problem that he explicitly denied he, or anyone, was, and then implied that if Mance had an heir it would be Jon Snow before him.
• Balerion. I don't know if even he could have survived the Cerseiplosion, and being called "the real king" by a gold cloak may not be enough to legitimize him, and also he's a cat.
• The Night King. Avert the War for the Dawn 2.0 by making peace with the White Walkers, and get the best army in the world to defeat Cersei. Except for him being the undead enemy of all living people, I see no real problems here.

[Ashes Of Westeros]

Sansa's sex life is a hot topic again. Why did Tyrion tell Jon that his marriage with Sansa was unconsumated? Did anyone ask?

Of course, Tyrion bein alive makes Sansa's marital status very complicated. But does it matter now?

[Ashes Of Westeros]

2 minutes ago, falcotron said:

The only potential kings in Westeros are, in ascending order of silliness, are:

Jaime. He's retired from the Kingsguard and he's Tyrion's elder brother.

[Rubicante]

9 hours ago, Lollygag said:

What’s with Missendei’s smirking?

I think it is a subtle hint that she is telepathically being controlled by Lena Headey's version of Cersei.  This would explain how Euron was able to determine the exact location of Yara's fleet, and to then head off to Casterly Rock the instant he presented Cersei with her gifts.

[darmody]

5 hours ago, falcotron said:

Yes, they're legendary—in the sense that most people believe they're legends. Things that either existed thousands of years ago, or were never anything more than myths. Remember Tyrion's bit about "snarks and grumpkins", which they just explicitly called back to this week? That's what everyone thinks.

So, Jon's challenge isn't explaining the legends to people, it's convincing people that those legends are real.

But I'm not sure why he thinks the way to do that is to just say "I have to fight the army of the dead" and then shut up and look really serious. It's as if he thinks the problem is that everyone believes he's joking, instead of that everyone believes he's probably insane. He might as well get a "The End is Nigh" sign, make a tin foil hat, and send ravens to Coast to Coast With Art Bell—that'll prove he's not joking.

Oh, Jon did a horrible job explaining himself, and had very little persuasive power. I was just saying people at least knew what he was talking about. He didn't have to spell out the concept of the Night King.

 

It would be as if in our world someone told you they met the Devil. You'd probably think they were lying or crazy and you'd want them to provide more information. But you wouldn't need them to explain what the Devil is. 

[darmody]

9 hours ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

I'd like to know WHY they had Sam steal Heartsbane if neither he nor his Daddy ever mention it?  I'm really not certain if they remember they had Sam take it, LOL  

 

They're going to need all the Valyrian steel swords they can get to fight the White Walkers. I'd rather have one of those than an obsidian sword. 

 

Every character with a Valyrian steel sword will be important in the coming Epic War against Death Itself:

Jon, obviously. (Will he offer his Bear Sword to Jorah when Jorah comes home to Mommy Dragon? Maybe.)

Brienne of Tarth

Larry, who will betray Carol and join the fight

Now Sam, who will be important because George Martin likes fat men who read a lot, for some reason

There's the dagger from Season One, which was Littlefinger's. Did Littlefinger hold onto it after that brothel scene? Doesn't matter, he won't be out fighting. 

[Iron Mother]

On 7/31/2017 at 0:56 AM, Nami said:

wtf was LF's speech? what was he even saying? just put this character out of his misery already

To answer your question, LF was telling Sansa to see the bigger picture.  He was telling her to imagine all things possible.  Not just putting friends and enemies in categories, not just assuming this will happen or that won't happen.  "The Game" is in play with continually moving parts.  He may have even been warning her HE was about to make a hidden move.  I think he generally cares about her but it will always be him first.  The fact he is remaining at Winterfell is NOT something Littlefinger would be doing right now.  He would be back in The Vale being like "Sansa you know where to find me if you need me".  It's totally out of character for him to be there.  It means his doom is imminent.

I am getting upset that LF is going to be used as a TOOL to further a Sansa plotline. 

Whatever you think about him, he started the whole show and plotted a huge percent of the events that have happened that we all enjoy.  He fucking needs elegant resolution or it's all for shit. 

If Sansa teams up with Arya for some didactic climax culminating in his death, I will burn all my GOT dvds and send the ashes to the Iron Bank of HBO.  It's complete shit.

These characters with big salaries and contracts remain while the people who actually were behind everything are going by the wayside.  They cannot even piece together a moment for Varys to do anything clever.  In all honesty, both Varys and LF were two of my all-time favorite characters in the show and I was SALIVATING to see their plots turn out awesomely.  Varys did nothing but bring a "Fire and Blood" offering to Dorne and Ollena and we all know how shitty those two things went, the fleet is destroyed.  He's just standing around getting lame prophecies from Aunti Mel.  He doesn't even like her, but is seeking her out?

I do not know if I hate Cercei Lannister more than Lena Heady for the idea she only still exists because they carved out a plot and people to surround her for her to be here this long BASED ON A FUCKING CONTRACT and CASH.  Jaime has been the same.  They have created out of thin air completely lame plots to give Jaime something to do.  CONTRACT$

I said it before, everyone with low wages will be kicked out and the very last scene (like, right before the credits) the will kill Cercei off in season 8 and the last people standing on Westeros will be Jon, Daenerys, Tyrion, Sansa, Bran...... possibly Arya although the show has a way of making people die for their transgressions (if you see Arya that way), a dragon or two (because CGI is $$$$) and then probably Brienne and Bronn and Pod due only to Fan Favoritism.  And depending on who satellites around those characters as love interests/marriages.

It's becoming so goddamned obvious.

While Dorne still gently weeps over The Red Viper and is never heard from again.  Possibly the most awesome house in the 7 kingdoms (IMHO).  If I recall, they were the only ones who resisted the Targayens.  That's saying more than a little about House Dorne.  Nothing from Dorne.  No armies invading KL in revenge (which they are well known for).  Nothing.  The other houses in Dorne are just hanging out in the watergardens chillaxing.

It's all about sweeping away the chaff now and the DEAD are coming, and I don't mean the Whites.  We can tell who will die when it suits the higher paid actor's story arc.  Sorry, I don't have to be the 3-eyed raven to see LF will try to divide Sansa and Arya and they will seek revenge.  What a sickening end to one of the most fascinating characters in the entire show.  Whether you love or hate LF, the character deserves at least one more shocking move. 

Such shit hath never been seen.  Well, it has, but GRR might roll in his grave someday over this. 

I love the books and will continue to enjoy them.  The show has thrown me off The Wall with this nonsense.

OH LASTLY, Sam and Gilly and babe Sam will remain with Sam as "chronicler" of all we have seen in the 8 seasons in finality.  And where the hell is she and the child staying?  Have they said any of that?  Sam appeared to come back to some SWEET digs to them after work and that all seemed to work out rather smoothly since when they got there, she and babe had nowhere to go. 

Please, I can't be the only one with this.

[Iron Mother]

No Revolts.  No Resistence.

The common folk ripped off someone's arm in the street over Joffrey being a bastard of incest.  Now, their faith has been blown up, there is no more food from High Garden, and a female sits on the throne who now OPENLY fucks her brother for all to see.  No hint of the Court opposing her (even in secret) and the Iron Bank is coming to help her!!!!!!!!!  WTF is this??

They traditionally help those who oppose those who don't pay them back?  Why are they not at Dragonstone offering help to Daenerys?  Tyrion should have thought of that one!  What an astute advisor.

And Cercei tells him they will be paid before another loan................ maybe I didn't catch it, FROM WHERE?  The trailer I think showed a caravan of gold headed for KL.... from where?  From High Garden?  I am unsure. 

All this is going too much in Cercei's favor.  And not a lot of it makes sense.

[darmody]

4 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

 

Also, why does everyone seem to want Jon and Dany to get together?  Of course they're going to have to develop a mutual respect and perhaps liking for each other, but what happens when Jon finds out she's his aunt?  Just what Westeros needs, more incest!

I don't know anyone personally who wants to see them together. The response is always along the lines of, "Eww." 

 

When they find out they're related, they'll already be lovers. Jon will have melted her dragonstone heart and, if not make her fall for him, at least touch her feel-y place for the first time since Drogo. Dany will have revved up his zombie heart, and he will love for the first time since Egret. 

 

Then the news will hit, and tragedy reign. Like Romeo and Juliet, only without the dying. They'll just be like, "Awkward!" Then they'll ride dragons together and either be just friends or get married or something gross. 

[falcotron]

2 hours ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

Jaime. He's retired from the Kingsguard and he's Tyrion's elder brother.

Oops, you're right.

And it's not even politically silly. Well, depending on how things go. If he abandons Cersei a couple weeks from now to go fight the dead and save Jon's ass and brings Tarly and all the other Lannister supporters with him against Cersei's will, yes; if he sacks Dragonstone on Cersei's orders and kidnaps Varys for Qyburn to torture information out of, probably less so…

If D&D are looking for a way to piss off as many shippers as possible, it could be fun. (Or are there Dany/Jaime shippers?)

[Gaz0680]

Iron Mother - If people in the show die for their transgressions, then Cersei and Melisandre would have been dead seasons ago.

I do agree though that D&D have ruined the show by writing it for their favourite actors and characters, rather than properly telling the actual story.

Lena Headey has been good as Cersei, but the character doesn't deserve more than half the screentime and plot focus she gets.

Sadly Game of Thrones is now the Jon,Dany and Cersei show with a little Sansa thrown in. Every single other character is being used purely to support or prop up those characters. It's even more of a joke because Emilia, Kit and Sophie are probably the 3 weakest actors (aside from Isaac) in the main cast.

Jaime has been ruined, Littlefinger and Varys neutered, Arya ill-used, Bran an exposition machine and poor Tyrion now used to make generally useless statements to Dany or Jon. It's a travesty.

[darmody]

2 hours ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

Sansa's sex life is a hot topic again. Why did Tyrion tell Jon that his marriage with Sansa was unconsumated? Did anyone ask?

Jon didn't ask, and if I were Jon I'm not sure I'd want to know. Whether or not Ramsey took her maidenhead, it's definitely gone, and if she's pregnant it's probably his.

But if I were Tyrion I'd want Jon to know.

2 hours ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

Jaime. He's retired from the Kingsguard and he's Tyrion's elder brother.

That's true. After being forced into retirement from the King's Guard, Larry should be Lord of Casterly Rock--assuming the Unsullied will eventually leave. Also, he should've been next in line after Tommen. That is, if there are no Baratheons left whatsoever.

Larry was Tommen's uncle(/father) and his closest male relative. If Carol is the legitimate queen in the eyes of the populace despite her terrorism, Larry could've been king following his backstabbing of Carol as soon as he could find her after seeing what became of the Sept. 

[Crona]

2 hours ago, falcotron said:

Robin's not a King. The Vale declared itself part of the Kingdom of the North, not an independent kingdom.

Never meant to say Robin is a King only that he had the Vale but yea I can see how that came out 

[falcotron]

13 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

These characters with big salaries and contracts remain while the people who actually were behind everything are going by the wayside. … 

I do not know if I hate Cercei Lannister more than Lena Heady for the idea she only still exists because they carved out a plot and people to surround her for her to be here this long BASED ON A FUCKING CONTRACT and CASH.  Jaime has been the same.  They have created out of thin air completely lame plots to give Jaime something to do.  CONTRACT$ … 

I said it before, everyone with low wages will be kicked out  … a dragon or two (because CGI is $$$$) …

I don't think you understand how money works.

They are not keeping Cersei around because Lena has a high salary. That would be the exact opposite of thinking about cash. See, Lena's $2.6M/episode deal doesn't mean that she gives D&D $2.6M every time they put her in an episode, it means they have to give her $2.6M every time they put her in an episode. So, if they use Cersei, instead of a character whose actor only makes $200K, that's $2.4M less money that they have to spend on other things, not $2.4M more. And having less money is, in general, bad, not good.

Of course there may be a reason to use Lena in spite of her salary—e.g., including a character that fans and critics like may mean better ratings, which ultimately means more money. But nobody would ever use her because of her salary.

And likewise for CGI. You don't add more dragons because CGI costs money. Again, people don't give you money for the privilege of using their CGI, they take away your money to create that CGI for you, so it's less money for you, and, again, less money is bad, not good.