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Lady Fevre Dream

[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

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4 hours ago, Bear42 said:

I actually laughed out loud at the RoboBran scene with Sansa.  Only because I couldn't help but picture the directors telling Isaac, "You need to portray someone who is completely detached, show no emotion at all, and try to avoid facial expressions."  Then IHR watches them shoot a Dany scene and he's like, "How the hell do I top that? Talk without moving my lips? Stop blinking or breathing?  She's the perfect three eyed raven."

Reminds of that scene in The Other Guys where Will Ferrel thinks they are playing bad cop-bad cop and he has no choice but to come in way over the top.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky8BkclMXBY

LOL  My husband loves that movie.  You have a point, watching Deadpan would be the most instructive example for Isaac in the detached, unfeeling department.  He'll have to watch out for being somewhat snitty about it, or he'll just be playing Dany minus the dragons.  And the direwolf, fuck the D;s.  I'm still not certain he goes Summerless, and so soon anyway, unless the books really are going for super isolated Bran, not part of the world, just observing it ever more. 

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4 hours ago, SilverAlmighty said:

Is it possible that the Greyjoy forces that attacked the fleet at CR weren't the same forces we saw in Ep. 2? Could it maybe just be reinforcements coming down from Pyke? The Silence would of course still have had to travel to CR, but it wouldn't be too big a stretch to assume that it could have made the journey alone quite hastely from KL. 

 

I've finally figured it out.  The Silence looks like Peter Pan's ship.......just w Black Sails.  Maybe it does fly then, it would explain how the damn thing pops up wherever it is needed.  Well, that and some pixie dust. 

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This show has become some kind of Lannister Porn Show. 

 

I mean, they have basically been fighting since season ONE, and have so har Castamere'd the Tullys, Tyrells, Martells, Baratheons; have severely kicked the Starks and Targaryens asses. The only two major houses that have not been basically destroyed by the Lannisters in the show are houses Arryn and Greyjoy. 

Come on. Things should not work like that. The Tyrells and Dorne should have a considerable force. Edmure Tully is still alive, and he hates the Lannisters. So where the fuck is he???

This show is clearly pointing to making Cersei the Bigger Bad in the end of all things. It is sad to me that better villains like Varys, Littlefinger and the Night King (even Daenerys if she went the mad queen route) will all probably not have space to develop, because Dumb and Dumber cannot control their Lannistet hard on and HAVE TO MAKE THEM THE MOST POWERFUL FORCE IN THE FUCKING WORLD

 

GODDAMNIT.

Who the fuck would follow an incestuous couple who destroyed the Vatican with the pope and the queen inside? It makes zero sense in any way you see it

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So D&D brainstormed with Cogman (and possibly the intern who suggested Olly's role in S5) on how to make Dany less invincible and Cersei more of a threat in S7. And the brilliant plan they came up with is: (1) keep Dany and her dragons grounded coz she's too important, (2) dumb down St Tyrion and make his strategies seem like child's play compared to Euron and Cersei's brilliance, contrary to what was shown in S2 where Tyrion was mopping the floor with stupid Cersei (because who's paying attention to the details, all the viewers care about is shock and awe), (3) let's have Randyll Tarly a seasoned battle commander and loyal Tyrell bannerman defect because Olenna has lost sight of reality and is all out for revenge (nevermind that her nemesis is a mad woman who just blew up a good part of KL and its inhabitants) and (4) lastly, but most importantly let's give the Lannisters the NK's power to magically multiply their forces. 

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The show has hit such rock bottom in writing, dialogue, world building and storytelling that I can't even summon the energy to write a rant-post on this. Weirdly enough I can only rant by saying something positive, to make the point. So here goes, my rant...

"It looks pretty."

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3 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

The show has hit such rock bottom in writing, dialogue, world building and storytelling that I can't even summon the energy to write a rant-post on this. Weirdly enough I can only rant by saying something positive, to make the point. So here goes, my rant...

"It looks pretty."

I feel exactly the same, for the first time I hated watching game of thrones and that D&D have butchered the show. Im speechless and theres too much to write about how bad its is, its making me angry just thinking about.

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3 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

On the one hand, it would lend credence to the idea of an 'army of the dead'....OTOH, it would make you a zombie just like the army of the dead.  But that scene was really poorly constructed, making Jon, again, look like a fool and Dany look like an entitled brat.  If some rando showed up ranting about the army of the dead, you'd get him a maester and some milk of the poppy.  Everyone in the show now is incapable of any strategy, but since the 'meetings' are all strategy meetings everyone comes off as dumb.  

Yeah and the funniest thing is that the very people who are intended to be super smart come off as dumbest. Varys, LF, Tyrion. Wtf is Tyrion doing this season? Idiot. 

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4 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

I feel exactly the same, for the first time I hated watching game of thrones and that D&D have butchered the show. Im speechless and theres too much to write about how bad its is, its making me angry just thinking about.

God I am also angry. Things are just ridiculous at this point

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10 minutes ago, teej6 said:

So D&D brainstormed with Cogman (and possibly the intern who suggested Olly's role in S5) on how to make Dany less invincible and Cersei more of a threat in S7. And the brilliant plan they came up with is: (1) keep Dany and her dragons grounded coz she's too important, (2) dumb down St Tyrion and make his strategies seem like child's play compared to Euron and Cersei's brilliance, contrary to what was shown in S2 where Tyrion was mopping the floor with stupid Cersei (because who's paying attention to the details, all the viewers care about is shock and awe), (3) let's have Randyll Tarly a seasoned battle commander and loyal Tyrell bannerman defect because Olenna has lost sight of reality and is all out for revenge (nevermind that her nemesis is a mad woman who just blew up a good part of KL and its inhabitants) and (4) lastly, but most importantly let's give the Lannisters the NK's power to magically multiply their forces. 

I'd like to know WHY they had Sam steal Heartsbane if neither he nor his Daddy ever mention it?  I'm really not certain if they remember they had Sam take it, LOL  Then again, Sam DID forget that he already knew about dragonglass on Dragonstone as well........but what's Randyll's excuse?

Looking at all the armies appearing all over Westeros doesn't lead me to the conclusion that the Lannisters, even Newly Evil Queen Carol, have the same magical powers as the NK, it's so obvious someone is going bonkers with the computer animation and the ability to just force multiply.  I am pulled right out of any suspension of belief in the story and thinking about computer programmers and such.  A warning for our own futures and terminators all over, perhaps.  They really need to leave off the damn multiply buttons on their computers.

 

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Love this forum. To quote Ned Stark: It shows there are still some people with sense around.

  • Common folk in KL taunting Sands:

    • How do they know Ellaria and her daughter?

    • Are the Ironborn no longer to be feared?

    • Why can they have empathy for the Queens daughter’s death and thus hate her killers? (If they remember her at all : Myrcella’s shipping to Dorne was the day when riots spread and nearly killed the royal family.

    • The answer can only be: The population in KL trained like those in North Korea: Filling streets and places and clapping and rejoicing on command!

    • Fortunately Jaime made a remark on the swaying mood of hte common folk in the Throne Room shortly later.

  • Qyburn is the father of all modern forensic based crime shows: When Myrcella’s corpse finally arrived in KL, he made a forensic analysis and found traces of the lipstick-poison, which he analysed and researched and reproduced and even found out the name the Dornish had given to this poison.

  • Cost savings at its best:

    • Cheap to non-existing battle scenes

    • One castle in two functions:

      • Looked at from the sea = Casterly Rock;

      • Looked at from land = Highgarden (I beg your pardon, I never promised you a rosegarden…).

      • Ok, Highgarden is not supposed to be at the sea (unfortunately to be seen in the show)

    • when it comes to soldiers: I COUNTED (Yes!) around 9.000 soldiers (so close to the 10.000-X Lannister soldiers (X = soldiers left to die in Casterly Rock)

    • I do not understand where the Tarly soldiers (and those of the other Houses now loyal to Cersei are in these numbers.

  • Issue with storming Highgarden:

    • Now, these nearly 10.000 soldiers without any siege engines (I checked – there are none) will have difficulties to storm the castle. Even some hundred soldiers could defend it. And in a siege the one with better provisions wins generally.

    • By the way: Highgarden is quite close to the Dornish border, might have been nice to make the Dornish army walk up to the border when Vary sealed the pact months ago.

    • The moment Olenna told Jamie about having killed Joffrey, I would have expected Jaime to turn the few moments she had to live into agonizing pain (sword in the bowles, strangle her).

  • Issue with taking Casterly Rock

    • 10 men creeping through the secret-Tyrion- come-into-my-castle-door and kill two or three relaxed Lannister soldiers, as no one is aware that the main forces of the Unsullied 7.990 soldiers) wait 10 cm away from the main gate of CR – LOL.

  • Jorah Mormont’s cure:

    • The dialogue appears as if master was seeing Jorah for the first time, in fact the next morning he would have looked and seen jorah in raw flesh => discussion with Sam at that time, not now

    • Have you noticed that the Maester dares not touch Jora with his bare hand but has this nice elaborate stick (which I use for pointing in presentations)?

    • By the way, when exactly did Jeor Mormont save Sam’s live several times?

  • Bran’s reunion with Sansa

    • If Bran is not able to tell the tale of what happened to him since he left Winterfell, especially HOW he escaped (I would like to know that in the first place): why not ask Meera to join Sansa and Bran in telling their story?

    • After the cold journey down from Castle Black I would have expected that Sansa invited them into a snug warm room and that they had a meal together; instead they go right to the weirwood.

    • First time Sansa faces magic in the show; even if Bran’s topic makes her feel uncomfortable, curiosity should be stronger (ask for other things he had seen).

  • Dragonstone:

    • Flying dragon into battle is too risky, one arrow might take Dany down – Dany seems to be happy that Tyrion and Missandei talked her out of the idea to use her Dragons, considering how fast she consents

    • well, why did Dany then bother to bring them along anyway?

    • Maybe the scene we saw with one dragon flying some inches above Jon’s head was Dany exercising on her remote abilities to control the dragons

    • By the way, I found out that dragons can fly at 150  miles/h

    • Was Jon invited to Dragonstone or summoned? If invited and by Tyrion I would assume (apart from guest right) that free conduct was included? Tyrion gave the message a personal note, but when welcoming Jon tells him, as his Hand he would have advised not to follow the invitation - strange

    • Is Jon, KOTN, overseeing or doing the mining himself? Did he plan to wait until enough dragonglass was mined and then return to the North, or had he miners on his ship to do the work for him? The men Dany wants to give him can only be Dothraki, no? Are Dothraki known for being experienced miners?

    • Who advised Jon to wear this ridiculous hair knot?

    • Davos and Missandei: she disliked him as he marked her having an accent, which she detests, as she thinks herself perfect in all the 19 languages she speaks.

    • Varys restarts his spider activities: standing on the rocks of Dragonstone he screens the horizon  and detects a lost ship of Yara’s fleet struggle into Dragonstgone’s deep-sea harbour (which is never shown, too expensive to build one on the Spanish shore), runs down to get knowledge of what happened, runs back into the throne room, interrupts Dany’s conversation with Jon Snow.

    • My favourite phrase: Jon to Dany: “There can only be one reason why you do not attack KL: It is because you want to save lives, which shows you are at least better than Cersei.”

  • Widow’s Wail is too short for Jaime; it was forged for the boy Joffrey

  • D&D seem to be determinded to give Littlefinger his stupid, useless 30-sec-monologue every episode now

  • Time elapsed between end episode2 and mid episode 3 is max 2 days. Proof: Theon rescued from water could not have survived longer.

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17 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Not really, that is a stupid move. Robert, Ned, and Jon Arryn were friends. Hoster Tully was their ally, too. They stood together against the Mad King and then some drunken Umber pushes them into a suicidal situation.

The North and the Riverlands cannot stand against the Lannister-Baratheons or the Baratheon brothers. Renly and Stannis have claim to the Iron Throne, and they are not going to accept this crap.

And even back then it is quite clear that Mance Rayder is preparing for an invasion beyond the Wall. He is there. The Northmen cannot expect any help whatsoever against that danger. If Stannis - a man Robb fucked as much as Joffrey - hadn't come to their aid Mance Rayder would now sit in Winterfell.

Not to mention the Greyjoy betrayal. That wouldn't have come if Robb had stood with either Renly or Stannis because Balon would have known that they would come for him then.

But even if we say they were justified back then - the smart move now would be to return into the fold. Make the first step.

Maybe I wasn't being clear. When I said 'justified' I meant merely from a moral perspective. The Iron Throne, as an institution, had repeatedly failed the North in a very short space of time so I completely understand the desire of the Northerners to separate in AGoT. At no point do I think that the idea was practically justifiable; clearly it would have been better to declare for an Iron Throne contender.

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With only 4 episodes to go I'm starting to worry that this season we won't get anything deep or well made like the Hodor episode to save the show from mediocrity.

I doubt that the Field of Fire V2.0 will be emotionally deep or give us some kind not foreseen plot twist or revelation. It will just move the plot along a bit.

Everything so far has been super predictable. They're going for shock value and it hasnt worked. The show has become too linear. There's no tension anymore, no cliffhanger, nothing unexpected.

What we really need is an episode written by GRR Martin...

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58 minutes ago, Rockroi said:

I don't have a lot to complain about regarding what was one of the more satisfying episodes of GoT in the last three seasons.  

What I liked:

The Dance of Dragons: There is some criticism of the meeting between the two seminal characters of the show Jon Snow and Dany Targaryen and I can see that.  Why was Jon there if he did not intend to bend the knee?  It was in her letter and everything?  Why was Dany acting ... so ... so ... crazy?  

No doubt there is a lot to parse through, but I thought there were a few major issues that I thought- and I do nit say this lightly- that the show mailed.  First, Dany is a Queen.  Now, in season two, outside of Qarth, Dany just sounded like she was a bafoon boasting and complaining all in an effort to NOT show her dragons.  But the show was consistent- what seemed a little bit shrill and unhinged in Season Two now seems utterly ominous, foreboding and menacing in Season Seven.  Namely, that Dany demands obedience and respect.  And you may think that nuts, but that is something ALL leaders demand (in various forms and in various ways).  Stannis, Tywin, Robb, Tyrion etc etc etc - all of them have required some level of obedience.  Why would we expect more (or less) from Dany? 

Now, did Dany sound "crazy?"  I think she did, but I think that's because nobody has ever sat on an island with three dragons and treated with Dorne, Highgarden and the North in the span of a week and demand fealty.  So, ANYTHING she says may sound nuts when its fixed in the language of domination and power.  And I also think that we were supposed to hear that conversation as if we WERE Jon Snow- that this was a creative choice the show made -and its certainly what Jon heard. 

The next thing is that the show did a great job of showing how LITTLE this man and women trust ANYONE.  So that while they both may DEMAND from the other X or Y, they bot cannot GET trust.  Each of them have lived their whole lives being routinely betrayed.  As Dany herself said, when you are sold and raped you trust people less and less.  Jon- through Davos - said the same thing: that when you are killed and your family wiped out- you tend to need more than their word before you trust somebody.  

Next, Dany apologized.  And, yes, I guess you could say its silly for Dany to apologize to Jon for the murder of his uncle and grandfather, long before either of them were born.  But royalty has a long memory and their actions are a continuum.  And Dany's apology has some meaning and shows that she recognizes the shortcomings of her House and the Crown.  

This leads to their station- where are we now?  The show details that they are still dancing with one another; still trying to see what will become of all this.  And I think its something that the show MAY do well.  

Eventually.

Piece Removal: The end of Dorne - lets assume that's what we saw- was earned.  The Sand Snakes et al killed a child in the very same manor that the Freys killed Robb- they poisoned somebody under their own roof as an act of vengeance.  And I say, fuck Dorne.  

Dorne never came together in this show.  It never held up and NEVER made sense.  But one thing that was clear was that the Sand Snakes wanted to take power and wanted to goad Cersei/Tywin into war.  And so they rolled the dice.  And Lost.  Lost hard. Cersei- as vicious and malignant as she is - clearly and unambiguously won this fight.  The Dornish got what they deserved - even if it was horrible (*and it was- Cersei is sick).  But if she had her daughter killed for NO REASON AT ALL -why should retribution be unexpected?  Cersei- say what you will - remained true to herself and good to her word. 

I never liked Dorne (its only SLIGHTLY more palatable in the books).  They waited 15 years to be pissed about Elia?  The Red Viper is killed in a 100% fair fight ... so they demand war?  They have this plan to bring back a Targ ... but have done nothing for 15 years?  

Regardless, I think Cersei's final retribution against Dorne was fully justified, powerful and as legitimate as any other vengeance.  

The Switch and Bait:  Obviously, the uber-payoff this week was the attach on Casterly Rock which was immediately shown to be trap with the Lannister+Tarly forces striking Highgarden (easy victories are easy), isolating the unsullied by destroying their fleet, and ultimately leaving Lady Oleanna there for the last words.  This had a multitude of good to it.  First, it showed that the Lannisters still possess flashes of brilliance and strength; that Tyrion was not the only tricky Lannister; and that Jaime is trying, like mad, to be a good person when pretty much everyone else is a massive prick.  

Exit, then, Lady Olenna who stayed true to form to the very end.  Yet another loser in the Game of Thrones, Olenna gives a last little jab to Jaime admitting to slaying Joff at his wedding.  I am a little surprised that Jaime was surprised.  But it was a decent way to end Olenna- sure she lost, but she put up a good show.  

And with that we are left with Jaime who, while clearly the victor with Cersei has nothing to say.  Again, here is a man TRYING to be decent- he gave Olenna a clean death; free of pain or fear, and his payment is to be tortured by the woman.  In the book, Jaime is as witty as Tyrion, but the show kept Jaime's trap shut, which was a shame.  I think Jaime was denied a good word or two at the expense of Olenna.  Which is fair, but one of the strengths of the books is that EVERY character gets a word- here or there, even at the end.  I would have liked for Jaime to say something back at Olenna.  She should still get the last word, but more of an exchange would have been preferred.  But I guess for Jaime, the win is reward enough.  

Tyrion: Nice to see him again.  

On the Fence

The Most Awkward Family Reunion Since the Last Time Two Starks Got Together: I liked how the show reintroduced Bran to Sansa and her affection for him was not feigned.  BUt their discussion at the tree is just strange.  Why can't Bran be Lord of Winterfell?  Because he's now the Three Eyed Raven?  Or is it because of the new Proclamation that "Jon Snow IS King So Let's Not Complicate This With Hereditary Which is the Bedrock of the Law Here And Lets Just Get This Done.... Bran Who?"  I feel like the show is just paying lip-service to all the things that were problems.  Now they are ... ignored?  

And then Bran talked about Sansa's Rape. Because Stark's are all fucking idiots.  I do get it, though; Bran was trying to empathize with her and make her feel like she was not alone... which makes it even more fucking creepy.  It felt like the scene went too deep on the creep and not long enough to be meaningful.  

The Disappearing Dragons:  How did they miss them on the walk by?  Wouldn't they be looking ALL OVER for them?  How did that one sneak up on them on the walkway?  Is this too nitpicky?  Even I think it is!  

Cop Out:  Have Davos kill Mel.  WEAK. SAUCE. Seriously.  What a way to avoid resolution.  Lame.  

The Citadel- Now With Twice the Monotony:  Day and Mormont's time together was very rewarding and the two men seemed to have a simpatico that was worthwhile.  But the rest?  Kind of feel like we have to move on and fast.  This story seems to be at an end and maybe we can get going even if Jim Broadbent is fucking killing it.  

What I Disliked:

The Incredible Invisible Iron Fleet: How did they go from KL'ing right to Casterly Rock around the same time Dany's Fleet was going to Casterly Rock?  Its like in the EXACT same place?  People know that Fleets can be seen, right?  That they can get reports?  This is the SECOND week in a row that Euron's Fleet was basically Ninja'd.  They were here and then - POOF!!!! - they are THERE!  Fucking... how?  Physics still matter, right?  Fleets are not airplanes- they don't simply disappear in the clouds.  

Regardless, this was a great episode that, I think, made up a lot of lost time and brought the show up a few notches.  Really great to see House Lannister get in a few great licks before, you know, the dragons just win.  And I say give Jon and Dany a chance.  

Great episode.  

Davos is only alive because Mel told Stannis not to execute him. It's funny how everyone including Davos forgets that. 

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10 minutes ago, WSmith84 said:

Maybe I wasn't being clear. When I said 'justified' I meant merely from a moral perspective. The Iron Throne, as an institution, had repeatedly failed the North in a very short space of time so I completely understand the desire of the Northerners to separate in AGoT. At no point do I think that the idea was practically justifiable; clearly it would have been better to declare for an Iron Throne contender.

How is morally justified, though? It was two (would-be) kings that disappointed the Starks, not the institution as such. Vice versa, the Iron Throne also didn't decide to take Winterfell and the North from the Starks when they repeatedly failed to keep the peace up there (their duty as Wardens of the North) with that Skagos Rebellion, Raymun Redbeard's invasion, etc.

If Renly/Stannis had also fucked Robb they may have been justified. But not before talking to them.

In fact, from a realistic point of view this whole thing makes little sense. It is a powerful scene but one really wonders why any of the men present would have considered that whole thing a great idea. It was against all their interests.

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2 hours ago, ramla said:

Thanks! i really didn't know that!

Ser Jorah Mormont of Bear Island is one of the few northern knights. The only major northern house with a strong tradition of knighthood is House Manderly of White Harbor.

Jon should have sent an emissary to DS or showed up with a retinue of knights and supporters. I see House Stark is still making idiotic decisions. There is no way, I would have went to DS to meet with a Targaryen with dragons......especially after what happened Ned and Robb. 

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16 hours ago, of man and wolf said:

Where the heck is Edmure Tully?

Well he was imprisoned again by the Freys/Lannisters at the end of season 6, presumably at his own castle.  Walder mentions in his conversation with Jaime at the feast.

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16 hours ago, falcotron said:

I think they're saving it for not just a Big Moment, but also the most heroic possible point. Which almost certainly means taking her army to join the fight against the dead against her orders, or something like that.

I sure hope so.  His love has not made him blind, but it is still stronger than any moral convictions he has over what she has done.  He would have to be really sneaky about taking their army to the north, cuz if she knows about it, she'll just use the Mountain to stop him.

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36 minutes ago, Ser Yorick Ampersand said:

With only 4 episodes to go I'm starting to worry that this season we won't get anything deep or well made like the Hodor episode to save the show from mediocrity.

I doubt that the Field of Fire V2.0 will be emotionally deep or give us some kind not foreseen plot twist or revelation. It will just move the plot along a bit.

Everything so far has been super predictable. They're going for shock value and it hasnt worked. The show has become too linear. There's no tension anymore, no cliffhanger, nothing unexpected.

What we really need is an episode written by GRR Martin...

Well, the don't understand storytelling.  D&D thinks shocking is just "anything can happen", but no, the anything can happen must be grounded in a world where some things are impossilbe and somethings are unlikely.  So when the unlikely happens the audience is shocked.

When D&D completely ignore the rules or have no rules, then nothing is shocking, because nothing is "unlikely".  If armies can teleport to random locations and attack anyone they want. Then no matter where they attack it's not a "shock", it's just "oh, that happened".   So Jaime attacked and took Highgarden, shrug, oh, that happened. Sure why not. 

 

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

How is morally justified, though? It was two (would-be) kings that disappointed the Starks, not the institution as such. Vice versa, the Iron Throne also didn't decide to take Winterfell and the North from the Starks when they repeatedly failed to keep the peace up there (their duty as Wardens of the North) with that Skagos Rebellion, Raymun Redbeard's invasion, etc.

If Renly/Stannis had also fucked Robb they may have been justified. But not before talking to them.

In fact, from a realistic point of view this whole thing makes little sense. It is a powerful scene but one really wonders why any of the men present would have considered that whole thing a great idea. It was against all their interests.

Well, as I mentioned in my first post, Stannis sat on his arse and the knowledge of Joffrey's illegitimacy for the entire duration of Ned's tenure as Hand (knowledge which could well have saved Ned's life or altered the game in any number of ways) and Renly abandoned Ned at his hour of need (that's certainly Catelyn's view). That certainly could be considered as 'fucking Robb' or at least the Starks as a whole.

Unfortunately, I don't know much about the Skagos Rebellion (the wiki seems pretty bare on detail) so I can't answer that but wouldn't Raymun Redbeard be an example of the Starks doing their job? The Night's Watch were caught off-guard (hence the nickname of their Lord Commander) and let the wildlings past them; it was the Starks and Umbers that defeated them. That seems like the Starks did their job just fine to me.

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