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Lady Fevre Dream

[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

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On 8/2/2017 at 1:53 AM, darmody said:

The king committing suicide, St. Peter's blowing up with the Pope and their beloved queen inside, and the woman upon whom they spat as she walked naked through the streets being their new ruler isn't gossipy enough?

 

Instead, they're all, "Ooo, Euron! He so sexy!"

Well, that "sexy" pirate sure is gossip material. 

I'd imagine they don't really dwell on old news. 

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1 hour ago, Rubicante said:

I think I have a possible explanation for why nobody uses scouts anymore.

Another theory:

How many people alive in Westeros have actually been in a normal battle—one that isn't resolved by the commander being caught with his pants down in a field before it starts, or by a massive reinforcement army showing up at the last second? Or a normal siege—one that isn't resolved by sneaking through the sewers or assaulting the walls with no casualties (and without any siege weaponry) before even bothering to set up camps?

There's Randyll Tarly, and… I think that's it. Nobody else knows basic tactics because where would you learn basic tactics? And what would be the point anyway, when they're never relevant?

And likewise, every army, during their overnight march across the continent, is apparently either using a cloaking device, or broadcasting their GPS position to every cellphone in Westeros, so when would anyone have learned the point of scouting, and why would they bother?

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22 hours ago, Duckface said:

Have huge Lannister army march towards Highgarden and have Tarly arrive at Highgarden before Lannisters with some other lords saying: "The Lannisters are coming, we've come to help, let us in". Have Tarly discuss battle plans with Olenna, her being confident in victory and then have Tarly's men and crown's loyalists butcher everyone at Highgarden at night.

That's basically what Tywin did at King's Landing during the rebellion against the Mad King, isn't it? With an assist from Larry, who stabbed the king in the back.

It would be too dramatically neat for the Lannisters to repeat their trick, I suppose. 

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1 hour ago, darmody said:

That's basically what Tywin did at King's Landing during the rebellion against the Mad King, isn't it? With an assist from Larry, who stabbed the king in the back.

It would be too dramatically neat for the Lannisters to repeat their trick, I suppose. 

Yes, it would, but keep in mind that this is still better than what happened in the show.

Furthermore, it was off screen, so nobody really saw something like this in the show.

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On 7/31/2017 at 1:18 AM, The Knight of Flours said:

One thing I didn't like was Dany's reference to her 'rape'.  When was this?  Was she referring to her wedding night with Khal Drogo? (albeit the show made it seem more rape-like than the books).

Yeah I have a problem with that too, especially with all the women in the show that have been raped. Dany on t.v. may have felt raped by her husband, but Dany in the book was given a chance to consent. The Khal was downright decent to her on their wedding night and Dany was far more fortunate from that moment on. While Dany marriage to Khal Drogo was happy, she learned to love him both books and t.v.. Viserys tried to sneak into Dany's room the night before her wedding to the Khal, but was stopped. So did this happen unknown to us? Or is she claiming trauma she didn't have? She had a pretty rough life for a long time and justified complaints. What about living like a beggar and on the run all the time? She suffered, to be sure, but not the way she said.

She also was free and powerful enough to enjoy lovers, something that only a few other women on this show have been able to do. Sansa on the other hand was raped by Ramsey, even though she consented she did not consent to his brutality. The effect is the same even if the name is not. Arya has been dodging getting raped for years and as far as we know, succeeding.

Women in this world and in many points in history are sold into marriages, especially women from important families. So now we are supposed to cry over what is a social norm? Dany thinks so.

Being sold to Khal Drogo was the best thing that happened to her. She acquired her power and desire for it there. Sansa's marriage to Ramsay on the other hand wounded her, nearly shattered her, and made her unpredictable.  Sure she is stronger too but I dare say not as strong as Dany, because she has only recently gotten her hands on power to protect herself, where Dany has had power for years.

Dany's claim to being raped put me off a bit and I think the writers goofed here. They need to be consistent and if some lurid detail was left out about Dany's list of traumas then I think it is too little too late and they should not have gone there.

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On 7/31/2017 at 6:42 PM, Samwell_Tarly said:

I would have much preferred her to come and just take the Iron throne. I hope it does a full U turn cos I seriously hated episode 3 and lost faith pretty much it all.

ahem we have 4 :P

Dany has been so wildly successful at conquest in the past, I think we need to see her actually struggle for her most important conquest.

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31 minutes ago, Duckface said:

Yes, it would, but keep in mind that this is still better than what happened in the show.

Furthermore, it was off screen, so nobody really saw something like this in the show.

It would have been vastly preferable to what actually happened, I agree. 

Even repeating what just happened at Casterly Rock, with a 10/20 Good Men strategy, would've been better. 

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6 hours ago, SerMixalot said:

Season 7 Episode 3 Status of the Great Houses

<>

Stark-Jon-KotN, Bran refusing title of Lord of Winterfell, Sansa-Lady of Winterfell?  Is that title meaningful with a KotN?

 

Sure it's meaningful, just as there is a Lord of Last Hearth and a Lady of Bear Island and so on, and the KiTN is the top of the pyramid.

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6 hours ago, falcotron said:

Can I rant about, not the episode itself, but an interview they gave about it?

Well, too late to answer, so I'm going to do it.

http://ew.com/tv/2017/07/30/game-of-thrones-bran-stark-reunion/

I, unlike many people, like the fact that Bran is cold, creepy, and completely lacking in empathy. Magic has a cost in this world, he's got amazing magic, and the sacrifice was his humanity, in a way that's most fitting for his character. And being the 3ER seems to mean seeing everywhere and everywhen whether you want to or not, and there's no way you could experience that and still be human.

IHW puts it like this:

Yeah, that works. But then D&D explain that's not really the issue:

So, as it turns out, there is no cost to magic, there's just a cost to situational bad luck, and there's no problem with a human "existing in thousands of planes of existence" but still feeling and acting human, just that he left Dagobah before Yoda could finish his training.

And, worse, they clearly say that he's not there "just yet", implying that they may be planning to fix him by the end of the series. So he'll be yet another character who gets a radical change followed by a reset button, instead of a character arc.

And then the article even hints that maybe he'll even end up as the Hand of King Jon. Which would actually be great if he were going to be the creepy, universally-feared Sorcerer-Hand that Bloodraven was, but it sounds like they're talking about how he'll just be friendly Hand Tyrion but with unlimited magic powers. (Again, IHW seems to get it better than them—he thinks that the Hand needs to be ruthless and conniving.)

So, it seems like one of the few things the show got right (even if everyone disagrees with me on that), they only got it right by accident, and they're planning to "fix" that and get it wrong in the end.

My favourite bit - Dan W. on Bran:

 

"ideally you want to use him in a way that adds to the story and enriches the story and not in a way that’s a magic bullet to conveniently deal with things that you haven’t come up with a better way to deal with."

 

It's not like you'd ever do that is it Dan? (Euron, Cersei, Ships, Casterly Rock, Highgarden... pretty much every episode so far...)

 

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2 hours ago, Stark_in_Winterfell said:

Yeah I have a problem with that too, especially with all the women in the show that have been raped. Dany on t.v. may have felt raped by her husband, but Dany in the book was given a chance to consent. The Khal was downright decent to her on their wedding night and Dany was far more fortunate from that moment on. While Dany marriage to Khal Drogo was happy, she learned to love him both books and t.v.. Viserys tried to sneak into Dany's room the night before her wedding to the Khal, but was stopped. So did this happen unknown to us? Or is she claiming trauma she didn't have? She had a pretty rough life for a long time and justified complaints. What about living like a beggar and on the run all the time? She suffered, to be sure, but not the way she said.

I guess she suddenly remembered her early days with Drogo, which looked clearly traumatic. You can't ask Bob* the intern to rewatch the full season 1 before writing dialogs, he probably hasn't gone past episode 2.

I'm not sure what's the more disturbing in her story btw. That she "learned to love" her rapist from day one up to calling him her sun and star and mourning his death after a few months (when the show deprived him of the tenderness he at least displayed in books), or that she's now betraying her late season 1 profession of love for Drogo by publicly lamenting about being sold to him and these marital rapes in what looks like the worst context possible, a diplomatic meeting with an unknown foreigner (and a potential ally she may have to "sell herself" to at some point for a political marriage).

There's perhaps some honeypoting, like imagining she was just having Stockholm syndrome for Drogo which finally ended at some point after his death, or considering that her season 6 experience with Dothraki khals remembered her the bad side of these people and her initial trauma. But as it randomly appears in the middle of other self-pitying complaints, as an arguement in a dialog with a foreign king, and with her usual "minimalist acting", we can't even be sure it's really how she now considers her past experiences, not just something said to score a "look how hardened I am" point (which by itself looks a bit counter productive, really hardened people don't make long tirades about all their hardships).

* looks like it's not Steve the intern who wrote this dialog, someone having read the books would never make her speak like that

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The writers of this show have abandoned any presence that they care about plausibility, internal consistency or any kind of logic. Practically nothing in it makes sense anymore. Why would Jon go to Daenerys without any guarantees about his freedom or life when he was unwilling to bend the knee? What did he expect to happen? And why didn't he explain the White Walkers and the Night King better?

LF's speech to Sansa was some of the biggest nonsense I've heard. Just a total mumbo jumbo of idiotic buzzwords.

So apparently greyscale is a deadly disease which can be cured simply by debriding the damaged tissue and applying some unguent. But apparently this is both so easy that a dude with zero experience in such medical procedures can do it successfully but so dangerous that most top maesters fail at it. WTH was the point of the whole "Jorah got greyscale" plot anyway if he'd just be cured so easily?

Apparently castles are completely useless in Westeros since each of them is a cakewalk to storm. How the hell did Tyrion manage to convince the builders to create a secret entrance to Casterly Rock and don't tell anyone except him about it, BTW? And how dumb are Tywin and people in charge of defending the castle for never noticing this in all these years even during the War of the Five Kings?

Sansa teaching the blacksmiths how to do their job was another facepalm moment.

It seems like D&D have decided they will just ignore the fact that Westeros is a medieval-type feudal society with rudimentary logistics and technology. Armies and fleets keep teleporting around the map, castles are stormed laughably easily, nobody cares that the church leaders and the biggest temple in the realm were blown to pieces, the characters talk in a completely modern way 95% of the time and apparently it's hilariously easy for women like Olenna and Ellaria who had no Tyrell or Martel blood to just take over ruling the House. And Cersei is Queen somehow even though she has no claim and hasn't even bothered to come up with any justification. The talk between Dany and Jon showed that neither of them had any clue how the vassalage system works in feudalism.

 

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3 hours ago, Stark_in_Winterfell said:

Dany has been so wildly successful at conquest in the past, I think we need to see her actually struggle for her most important conquest.

I totally agree with you, that they should make this conquest the hardest for Daenerys. The problem I have is they have made characters who were previously very intelligent and able devise very well thought out plans, taking into consideration most factors. This has been very prominent in Tyrions character who they have made to look like a complete idiot moron. 

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2 hours ago, Lord Freypie said:

There's perhaps some honeypoting, like imagining she was just having Stockholm syndrome for Drogo which finally ended at some point after his death, or considering that her season 6 experience with Dothraki khals remembered her the bad side of these people and her initial trauma. But as it randomly appears in the middle of other self-pitying complaints, as an arguement in a dialog with a foreign king, and with her usual "minimalist acting", we can't even be sure it's really how she now considers her past experiences, not just something said to score a "look how hardened I am" point (which by itself looks a bit counter productive, really hardened people don't make long tirades about all their hardships).

 

Exactly right. The most successful 'ladies men' that I know won't tell you how many women they've been with.. that might prevent them from getting the next one. And the toughest guys I know won't stand in front of you and describe the 14 different ways they are gonna kick your ass.. you just suddenly become aware that you're on the floor and you might be bleeding. The ones that drone on and on about themselves tend to be easier to deal with. "More bark than bite" I believe the saying is

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1 hour ago, Super Mario said:

Exactly right. The most successful 'ladies men' that I know won't tell you how many women they've been with.. that might prevent them from getting the next one. And the toughest guys I know won't stand in front of you and describe the 14 different ways they are gonna kick your ass.. you just suddenly become aware that you're on the floor and you might be bleeding. The ones that drone on and on about themselves tend to be easier to deal with. "More bark than bite" I believe the saying is

The show is The Exposition Hour occasionally interrupted by exploitation or violence or an unintentionally funny moment like Sandra telling armorers how to make armor. Even the attack on Casterly Rock was done that way. I drink and know things here have some blood and gore.

And Dany threw Drogo under the bus, why did she name her dragon after him if that's all she's got to say about what was originally presented as a love story? But women on top are empowered by such things, so whatever. And the show retroactively destroys its own story, yet again.

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9 hours ago, darmody said:

That's basically what Tywin did at King's Landing during the rebellion against the Mad King, isn't it? With an assist from Larry, who stabbed the king in the back.

It would be too dramatically neat for the Lannisters to repeat their trick, I suppose. 

I think you err here. If my memory is correct, Jaime warned (as well as Varys) the Mad King to open the gates to Tywin Lannister, but the Mad King listened to Grandmaester Pycelle. At least in the books it becomes clear that Pycelle was well aware of Tywin's intentions. I am not so sure where Jaime's warning to open the gates to Tywin was mentioned, but I believe it was even on the Show, during the bath he took with Brienne in Harrenhal, but it might als have been in the book. Jaime decided to kill the Mad King once he learned about his plan to burn the City with wildfire.

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the show-runners are using GRRM's foundation as a soap box to (poorly) address societal flaws and backwards thinking of our modern world.

the beauty of GRRM's source material is that the allegory is subtle, if present at all.  because Game of Thrones is a popular television program in the year 2017, it has become a cultural meme, tasked with speaking to current events and societal norms, despite its context being anything but that.

i am currently listening to the books for the first time, having read through the published/released material 5 times already.  Blatant mispronunciation of a handful of names aside (Puh-TIRE Baelish :: Petyr Baelish / Bry-EEN of Tarth :: Brienne of Tarth), I am beginning to realize just how great of a challenge D&D were facing, and how ill-equipped they have proven themselves in facing this challenge.

There is no reason for what is happening in the show.  No character motivation is evident or consistent.  I dated an alcoholic, narcissistic woman who was more predictable, forthcoming and self-aware than the caricatures on display in this television program.

It must pain GRRM to see what these clowns have down to his work of art.  Without the frame-work of published source material to copy directly from, the show continues down the path towards irrelevance.  I am glad, however, that the joke of a television program that is Game of Thrones strayed so far from the source material both in plot and in quality, that it has renewed my love of GRRM’s writing.  I count ASOIAF among the richest literary endeavors I have had the pleasure of experiencing.

Alas, I will continue to watch the show, if only to serve as the foil to my non-reader friends and family who still fawn over the spectacle that should be re-named “Michael Bay presents The Bastardization of Ice of Fire.”

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1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

I drink and know things here have some blood and gore.

Ugh, I saw a "I drink and I know things" shirt at Target. Just...why?

3 hours ago, David Selig said:

Snip

100% accurate. I can't remember the last time I saw a work of fiction abandon logic, consistency, character traits, world-building, etc, to this extreme. 

I'm almost expecting to see Enoby show up next episode. 

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