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Lady Fevre Dream

[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

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20 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Yeah, but without any sort of formal alliance. And Stannis makes it crystal clear to Catelyn that Robb can expect nor mercy from him. No mercy at all. Had he gotten around to it he would have dealt with him as he dealt with Renly and intended to deal with Joffrey.

My point was Robb didn't fuck Stannis like he did to Joffrey.

26 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Robb the Fool thought he could make a peace with Stannis. Perhaps he would have spared his life had he bent the knee but he would have taken Winterfell from the Starks. This is Stannis we are talking about.

And Stannis was as much a fool as Robb, if not greater. Davos even asked Stannis to join forces with Robb if he can't do so with Renly. The two Baratheon brothers were busy holding tourneys or sending ravens out to press for their claims when their eldest brother/King had just died. Robb was the only one who was fighting the war against the Lannisters. As Stannis learned later from Davos and Jon, he started putting the horses before the cart instead of the other way around. If only he had learned the necessity of winning people over...

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1 hour ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

Last night I sat in front of the tv getting ready to watch the episode, and decided I just can't do it. I just have no desire to watch this.

I don't care what happens to any of the characters, because there are no meaningful logical consequences for anything that happens. So there is no story, just a bunch of unconnected scenes, that feature mostly poorly written dialogue. 

I am truly done with this show.

 

Agree wholeheartedly. Till Season 4, I used to watch every single episode every single day until the next episode came out.

Season 5 & 6 were meh but, I still watched it with enthusiasm hoping it would get better. I truly enjoyed Hardhome. This year, I have even canceled HBO. It's still one of the few shows that I watch/follow and I hope WoW gets released next year.

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Dany sounded like an entitled brat, and I wanted to punch Jon in the face for simply standing there and hearing all her crap without responding in kind.

She has no claim to the Iron throne at the moment. Aegon I coqnuered the 7 kingdoms and ruled it though right of conquest. When Robert Baratheon defeated The Mad King, he won the 7 Kingdoms through right of conquest. Dany's claim ended at that instant. If she wants to rule again, she must conquer it again.

And Jon does not owe any allegiance to Dany. Yes Torehn Stark sworn allegiance to the Targaryens. But his own father Ned Stark swore an allegiance to house Baratheon. So if Jon has any allegiance to anyone, it is to house Baratheon which is dead.

And by what right does Dany strip Jon of his weapons and boat. He is went there on an invitation, HE is a guest and He is an EQUAL. He did not have to stand infront of her or call her 'Your Grace'. They should have met in a room as equals.

And what is with that stupid Smirk on Missendai? I so wish if Ghost were with Jon. She would be pissing in her pants if Ghost was there. He would have given Jon more value.

 

 

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1 minute ago, athmystikal said:

Dany sounded like an entitled brat, and I wanted to punch Jon in the face for simply standing there and hearing all her crap without responding in kind.

She has no claim to the Iron throne at the moment. Aegon I coqnuered the 7 kingdoms and ruled it though right of conquest. When Robert Baratheon defeated The Mad King, he won the 7 Kingdoms through right of conquest. Dany's claim ended at that instant. If she wants to rule again, she must conquer it again.

And Jon does not owe any allegiance to Dany. Yes Torehn Stark sworn allegiance to the Targaryens. But his own father Ned Stark swore an allegiance to house Baratheon. So if Jon has any allegiance to anyone, it is to house Baratheon which is dead.

And by what right does Dany strip Jon of his weapons and boat. He is went there on an invitation, HE is a guest and He is an EQUAL. He did not have to stand infront of her or call her 'Your Grace'. They should have met in a room as equals.

And what is with that stupid Smirk on Missendai? I so wish if Ghost were with Jon. She would be pissing in her pants if Ghost was there. He would have given Jon more value.

 

 

I miss Ghost too! Apparently Jon doesn't though, according to the show at least. 

 

Dany is just....ugh. I am hoping they kill her off at this point.  Won't happen but I can dream. 

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1 minute ago, Ice Walker said:

My point was Robb didn't fuck Stannis like he did to Joffrey.

Robb never defeated Joffrey directly. He defeated Jaime but not Joffrey.

1 minute ago, Ice Walker said:

And Stannis was as much a fool as Robb, if not greater. Davos even asked Stannis to join forces with Robb if he can't do so with Renly. The two Baratheon brothers were busy holding tourneys or sending ravens out to press for their claims when their eldest brother/King had just died. Robb was the only one who was fighting the war against the Lannisters. As Stannis learned later from Davos and Jon, he started putting the horses before the cart instead of the other way around. If only he had learned the necessity of winning people over...

Sure, Stannis is doomed, too. But that isn't the point, or is it? The point is that Robb had no right to expect any help from any Baratheon pretender after he donned his crown. He was trying to steal half of the kingdom. Wearing a crown makes him as much an enemy of Renly and Stannis as he is of the Lannisters. Robb is forcing himself and his bannermen to fight against all of Westeros by themselves when he dons his crown. That's just utter stupidity. He goes from fighting a campaign against one enemy (with essentially most of the Realm as potential allies) to potentially fighting a war on multiple fronts.

Sure, some moron could have decided to not care about all that and make a deal with Robb anyway. But the Baratheon brothers weren't such morons. If Renly or Stannis had won against the Lannisters they would have come from Robb. Stannis would most likely have eradicated the Starks entirely unless they had bent the knee at once, and Renly would have taken at least Robb's head if the man had forced him to fight a long and costly war.

But the point of the show is that they insist on quoting themselves and do versions of older scenes. We got that back last season with Dany as The Unburnt 2.0 just as with The King in the North 2.0. George is never going to do things in such a clichéd and ridiculous manner. 

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3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Sure, Stannis is doomed, too. But that isn't the point, or is it? The point is that Robb had no right to expect any help from any Baratheon pretender after he donned his crown.

Robb expected help from Balon, Renly and Lysa. He never expected any help from Stannis. He was actually trying to help Stannis indirectly by getting Tywin to chase him in the Westerlands which in several odds, meant his own death. Robb may not have supported Stannis and bent the knee but he didn't want to fuck Stannis like you mentioned. That's my point.

5 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Robb never defeated Joffrey directly. He defeated Jaime but not Joffrey.

I misunderstood your original post. Apologies for that.

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Aren't dragons supposed to have dragon riders? When do Jon and Tyrion get to ride the dragon? Its past tine for D&D and HBO to pay for some CGI.

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1 hour ago, Forlong the Fat said:

How many days did it take Jaime to march to High Garden, Jon to sail to Dragonstone, and Euron's ships to sail where they sailed? Can you point me to the scene I missed?

 

So are we to believe that Ser Jaime caught a ship with his future brother Euron to CR ahead of Dany's fleet carrying the Unsullied, and that Ser Jaime raised an army of Westerman (I guess they could have sent a raven from KL) and marched all of the way to Highgarden unopposed? House Rowan, Crane, Roxton, Oakheart, and the other lords of the Northern Marches of the Reach should have at least made an attempt to hinder the Lannister invasion.  Are we to believe that all of the other houses of the Reach joined House Tarly in breaking their oaths to House Tyrell?The Reach can raise an army double the size of the Westerlands, and should have had proper motivation to face them in the field.

The lengths the show goes to prop up Cersei and the Lannisters irks me. The Faith should be at war with Cersei alongside the Tyrells and most of the smallfolk who died in that blast. There comes a time when a ruler becomes so cruel that the people all rise up to get rid of the cancer that is Tyranny. That is exactly what happened to the Mad King. Cersei has less support than he did. D&D had to give her the Greyjoys as an ally, and as improbable as that alliance is, it still shouldn't give her an edge over her enemies, which include the North, Vale, Riverlands, Stormlands, Dorne, and the Reach, and the Mother of Dragons.

 

 They had to make Dany's crew complete idiots in order for Cersei to be winning. Cersei took the IT without the love of the people and she is doing fine. In fact, she climbed to power by drowning the realm in blood. But Tyrion tells Dany she must win the people over.

Varys all of the sudden is an idiot, Tyrion is useless, and her Khalasar is nonexistent. In the first few seasons, Varys knew all. He was on top of everything. What happen to him?  Why isn't Dany shadowing her fleet with her dragons. Are they charging her per flight?

If D&D wants to go for shock value, they should have Euron betray Cersei for Dany. Cersei should not be winning. I've noticed a decline in the quality of the writing ever since they ran out of source material.

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47 minutes ago, Lockjaw of House Boltagon said:

Same. Everything is so...lifeless now, there's truly no spark to the dialogue or the characters or the scenes. It's like an adaptation of the Sparknotes summary of the books, like shit is just going through the motions.

I feel like when literally anything can happen at any moment without any logic, then nothing matters. Like, D&D want Varys to ride a dragon and take Pyke? Sure, why the fuck not? 

But I'm in too deep to quit. I endured all 3 seasons of Under the Dome, so I'll see this turkey to the bitter end.

Exactly, nothing happens for any good reason and whatever happens has no consequences. So really it mean literally anything can happen, and the next scene people can act on the show as if nothing happened.

So why should I care when nobody in the story even care?  I was prepared to see it to the bitter end like you but really I think last night I finally hit the point of complete apathy. 

 

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2 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

I agree as well.  I was so hoping when he came home and saw that Cersei's actions caused their last child to kill himself that he would really come around.  The only difference since he met Brienne is that even though Cersei still has the ring through his nose is that now he is obviously conflicted.  Broken character indeed.

They're saving Larry turning on Carol for one of their Big Moments. I don't know when. He probably won't literally stab her in the back like I want him to, but he'll disobey and abandon her. Maybe prevent her hurting people, as with the Mad King. 

NCW is giving little looks, subtle hints. In the eyes and what-not. He's not happy, and is pulling away. Except around Urine, who pushes him closer to her.

Way the heck too subtle, this away-pulling, given the circumstances. He killed a king for wanting to do what she did (and then some)! In the back! She contributed to their son's suicide! He should be done with her already (and then some).

But they're doing the Red Witch/Onion Knight thing. "Oh yeah, I forgot I hate you for several episodes for no reason."

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9 minutes ago, Howling Mad said:

Aren't dragons supposed to have dragon riders? When do Jon and Tyrion get to ride the dragon? Its past tine for D&D and HBO to pay for some CGI.

Here's my guess: In the course of a single episode, four things will happen:

  1. Jon and Dany have sex for the first time.
  2. Jon and one of the dragons get along surprisingly (especially to Dany) well.
  3. Viserion gets killed or mortally wounded because Dany unwisely tries to use all three dragons with only one rider.
  4. Dany learns about R+L=J.

And then, at the end of the episode, Dany and Jon are riding Drogon and Rhaegal side by side, and it's never made clear which of the four events convinced her to give Jon a dragon.

As for Tyrion, he's never getting a dragon. Viserion is the Night King's dragon, not his. Whether he gets killed by wights, or by Qyburn's Smaug-o-matic harpoon, he's dying, and coming back from the dead.

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46 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Robb never defeated Joffrey directly. He defeated Jaime but not Joffrey.

Sure, Stannis is doomed, too. But that isn't the point, or is it? The point is that Robb had no right to expect any help from any Baratheon pretender after he donned his crown. He was trying to steal half of the kingdom. Wearing a crown makes him as much an enemy of Renly and Stannis as he is of the Lannisters. Robb is forcing himself and his bannermen to fight against all of Westeros by themselves when he dons his crown. That's just utter stupidity. He goes from fighting a campaign against one enemy (with essentially most of the Realm as potential allies) to potentially fighting a war on multiple fronts.

Sure, some moron could have decided to not care about all that and make a deal with Robb anyway. But the Baratheon brothers weren't such morons. If Renly or Stannis had won against the Lannisters they would have come from Robb. Stannis would most likely have eradicated the Starks entirely unless they had bent the knee at once, and Renly would have taken at least Robb's head if the man had forced him to fight a long and costly war.

But the point of the show is that they insist on quoting themselves and do versions of older scenes. We got that back last season with Dany as The Unburnt 2.0 just as with The King in the North 2.0. George is never going to do things in such a clichéd and ridiculous manner. 

By what right do these southerners have to the North? They know nothing of the long night, and the cold winters...the North are hard men governed by hard men. Stannis was listening to a red witch. He wasnt wearing the pants in that partnership. 

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4 minutes ago, darmody said:

They're saving Larry turning on Carol for one of their Big Moments. I don't know when. He probably won't literally stab her in the back like I want him to, but he'll disobey and abandon her. Maybe prevent her hurting people, as with the Mad King. 

I think they're saving it for not just a Big Moment, but also the most heroic possible point. Which almost certainly means taking her army to join the fight against the dead against her orders, or something like that.

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13 minutes ago, falcotron said:

or by Qyburn's Smaug-o-matic harpoon,

How much of a direct rip off is this? What's next? A limited amount of "special arrows" to go along with it? Absolutely shameless

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3 hours ago, The Onion Kniggit said:

Why is there still a Baratheon stag for Kings Landing in the opening sequence? Hell why is there a Baratheon stag still on the Game of Thrones title.. aren't they like gone.

Carol is a Baratheon widow. According to show-logic her right to rule derives from being Tommen's mommy. Tommen was officially a Baratheon. (Which is one good reason among thousands not to openly sex your brother.)

If they cared about succession, and assuming the family has claim to the throne instead of being a bunch of terrorists, it really should go to Larry. He's not in the Kingsguard anymore, and is Tommen's most immediate male relative. Failing that, aren't there any other male Baratheons or Lannisters? 

Why are there no extended families in Westeros, at least among the nobles?

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6 minutes ago, of man and wolf said:

By what right do these southerners have to the North? They know nothing of the long night, and the cold winters...the North are hard men governed by hard men. Stannis was listening to a red witch. He wasnt wearing the pants in that partnership. 

This isn't even good in-universe Northern propaganda.

The King of the Seven Kingdoms has exactly the same right to the North that the Lord of Winterfell has to the Last Hearth or the Flints. The Starks don't know what life in the hardscrabble frozen mountains is like any more than the Targaryens do. 

The idea that Aerys or Robert weren't "hard men" enough to rule northerners but, say, Sansa is, or even Robb, is pretty silly.  

And if knowing of the Long Night is key, well, nobody in the North knows of the Long Night, except Bran. And maybe Aemon and Sam knew a bit, but they're not from the North. Lots of people in Oldtown probably know about it.

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2 hours ago, Mikeygigs said:

Jon went to Dragonstone with no plan? Like, not even to ask Danearys for an alliance through marriage? This is a feudal culture, and it solves both their problems to just marry. Helps each of them save face, and it gets them both what they want.

Why hasn't anyone suggested this?

Also, Tyrion designed a secret way into Casterly Rock, his family's fortress, just so he could have sex with prostitutes? Give me a f***ing break. Tywin was right never to name him heir.

I'm certain Emo Crow and the Dragon Lady will have sex, which is gross. But they want to build up to it (i.e. drag it out). It's gotta be romantic. First they hate eachother, then they get used to eachother, then passion takes over. Then tragedy hits as they find out they're aunt and nephew (actually, closer than aunt and nephew, given all the Targeryen interbreeding). 

That would be ruined by having the courtship be all formal and feudal. "I shall now insert my member into the royal womb to consummate our arrangement for the betterment of our respective subjects, your Grace."

"I am receiving you, Lord Snow of the North. I shall climax soon, if that suits you."

"All the same to me, your Grace. Our pleasure is incidental to our purpose, which is to found our posterity so as to solidify the bond between North and South...Oh, I'm finished, your Grace."

 

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6 minutes ago, Super Mario said:

How much of a direct rip off is this? What's next? A limited amount of "special arrows" to go along with it? Absolutely shameless

If Bronn (or whoever their chosen Big Hero is) shoots Viserion with it and he crashes to the ground with a Cumberbatchian death roar, that'll be pretty shameless. But I don't think that's what D&D are planning. I suspect it'll turn out to be useless: a perfect shot in exactly the right place, and there's just a "tink" and Viserion doesn't even notice. Which demonstrates how invincible a dragon really is. (So it'll be all the more surprising when the wights drag him down later in the episode, of course.) In which case it's not a shameless ripoff at all.

But we'll see.

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1 hour ago, Ser Snowflake said:

 

So are we to believe that Ser Jaime caught a ship with his future brother Euron to CR ahead of Dany's fleet carrying the Unsullied, and that Ser Jaime raised an army of Westerman (I guess they could have sent a raven from KL) and marched all of the way to Highgarden unopposed? House Rowan, Crane, Roxton, Oakheart, and the other lords of the Northern Marches of the Reach should have at least made an attempt to hinder the Lannister invasion.  Are we to believe that all of the other houses of the Reach joined House Tarly in breaking their oaths to House Tyrell?The Reach can raise an army double the size of the Westerlands, and should have had proper motivation to face them in the field.

The lengths the show goes to prop up Cersei and the Lannisters irks me. The Faith should be at war with Cersei alongside the Tyrells and most of the smallfolk who died in that blast. There comes a time when a ruler becomes so cruel that the people all rise up to get rid of the cancer that is Tyranny. That is exactly what happened to the Mad King. Cersei has less support than he did. D&D had to give her the Greyjoys as an ally, and as improbable as that alliance is, it still shouldn't give her an edge over her enemies, which include the North, Vale, Riverlands, Stormlands, Dorne, and the Reach, and the Mother of Dragons.

 

 They had to make Dany's crew complete idiots in order for Cersei to be winning. Cersei took the IT without the love of the people and she is doing fine. In fact, she climbed to power by drowning the realm in blood. But Tyrion tells Dany she must win the people over.

Varys all of the sudden is an idiot, Tyrion is useless, and her Khalasar is nonexistent. In the first few seasons, Varys knew all. He was on top of everything. What happen to him?  Why isn't Dany shadowing her fleet with her dragons. Are they charging her per flight?

If D&D wants to go for shock value, they should have Euron betray Cersei for Dany. Cersei should not be winning. I've noticed a decline in the quality of the writing ever since they ran out of source material.

That's a long way, I guess, of saying the show suggested in no way whatsoever  that these things occurred in an improbable period of time. 

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