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lakin1013

Where Mel and Varys die?

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I found Mel's conversation with Varys to be confusing.  It seemed she made a real point that while she could leave Dragonstone, both she and Varys are destined to die in Westeros.  I came away thinking I had missed a prophecy somewhere or that I had no idea what she was talking about.  In addition, Varys did a double take as if he knew what she meant and it was true for him as well.  According to the wikipedia, Mel is from Asshai and Varys is from Lys.  What did she mean and was she just making a general comment (we will all die on planet Earth) , or something specific about the two of them?  And what are your thoughts on how it seemed Varys was prodding Mel to leave?

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Varys doesn't like blood magic, from what happened to him as a child. (Getting his privates cut off for it by a sorcerer.) 

Varys obviously doesn't like Melisandre  as she practices blood magic as well and he doesn't want her there. So he's trying to get her to leave and not come back. 

Melisandre Knows that they will die in Westeros and is eluding to the fact that she knows where her own death and Varys' will be and she has more than likely has seen it. So that has given Vary's the heebie jeebies. 

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11 hours ago, lakin1013 said:

I found Mel's conversation with Varys to be confusing.  It seemed she made a real point that while she could leave Dragonstone, both she and Varys are destined to die in Westeros.  I came away thinking I had missed a prophecy somewhere or that I had no idea what she was talking about.  In addition, Varys did a double take as if he knew what she meant and it was true for him as well.  According to the wikipedia, Mel is from Asshai and Varys is from Lys.  What did she mean and was she just making a general comment (we will all die on planet Earth) , or something specific about the two of them?  And what are your thoughts on how it seemed Varys was prodding Mel to leave?

There are no guarantees that her words were a prophecy at all or even related to one. They both have more in common than Varys like to admit. Melisandre is at relative ease that she knows she is going to die, she realises she is just a piece and has a role to play somewhere amongst this. While Varys has shown no want to die. If Varys is that worried of dying he could swop sides in the hope he doesnt. This would mean he would cross his Queen and he told her he wouldnt betray her. I would take the words said about Varys with a pinch of salt for now, I wouldnt like to theorise into Lord Varys end but we can just say that Melisandre has planted doubt into Varys now and this could lead the Spider to be caught in his own web. 

Melisandre has been dying for some time now, shes had a lot longer life than expected. Her death is not going to be unintentional or from natural causes (as we know she is actually really really fucking old), but its going to have meaning and more than likely related to the Prince that was promised.

Edited by Samwell_Tarly

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I've been wanting someone to bring this up. I feel this was the most important part of the entire episode, hidden in everything else that happened.

I'm sure you know about the "Varys is a Merman" theory. If not, look it up. I feel it's the best theory I've read.

When Mel said "I have to die in a foreign country, just like you", Varys didn't just do a double take. He looked absolutely horrified, like she knew a big secret about him. Him being a slave and eunuch isn't a secret at all.

I also found it interesting that the very next shot after their scene was a long shot of the sea...where Varys would be from if he's a Merman.

I have personally felt Varys will ultimately end up with the Iron Throne after betraying who finally wins it (either Dany or Jon probably). This scene either leaned in that direction or is just D+D f'ing with believers of that theory

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22 minutes ago, Pontius2000 said:

I've been wanting someone to bring this up. I feel this was the most important part of the entire episode, hidden in everything else that happened.

I'm sure you know about the "Varys is a Merman" theory. If not, look it up. I feel it's the best theory I've read.

There is only shreds of evidence to suggest he is a 'Merling', and I'm not a believer. Also a lot of the evidence is based from the books.

22 minutes ago, Pontius2000 said:

When Mel said "I have to die in a foreign country, just like you", Varys didn't just do a double take. He looked absolutely horrified, like she knew a big secret about him. Him being a slave and eunuch isn't a secret at all.

I also found it interesting that the very next shot after their scene was a long shot of the sea...where Varys would be from if he's a Merman.

How can he be a Eunuch if he is a Merling, hes one or the other, its the idea that he uses being a Eunuch to cover up his real idenity as a Merling.

Again the sea shot just coincidence if anything. 

22 minutes ago, Pontius2000 said:

I have personally felt Varys will ultimately end up with the Iron Throne after betraying who finally wins it (either Dany or Jon probably). This scene either leaned in that direction or is just D+D f'ing with believers of that theory

I really dont think this is going to happen, even with the Idea he wants to serve the realm, the people in it. I think he will meet his end being wrapped up in the web hes created as the notorious spider.

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Remember back in season 3 (as far as I remember) when Melisandre met Arya and said: "We will meet again"! And since they haven't met again yet, I guess Melisandre will be back in Westeros, most likely to die by the hand of someone!

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I expect Mel to have a role and to die during the final battle with the White Walkers. I expected Varys to survive though, so I have no idea what it is supposed to mean. Unless it means that Varys will die when 90 from a natural death...

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2 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

 but its going to have meaning and more than likely related to the Prince that was promised.

This is how I took the meaning but I was leaning towards her being killed in order for the Prince's sword to ignite.  Not really a lot of evidence for this but with the show it seems like it could be a possibility.  Her whole character is set on fulfilling the prophecy.  She was wrong about Stannis, acknowledges that she made "terrible" mistakes that led her to Dany, and seems to have committed to Jon being the chosen one at this point. 

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50 minutes ago, Septa Wantsmore said:

Remember back in season 3 (as far as I remember) when Melisandre met Arya and said: "We will meet again"! And since they haven't met again yet, I guess Melisandre will be back in Westeros, most likely to die by the hand of someone!

I could see this happening, it would explain why Mel was so terrified when she looked at Arya and made that comment about "eyes that you will shut forever". Maybe she actually sensed that Arya would be involved in her death somehow. The only problem with this idea is, what would be Arya's motive. 

Varys, a merling? Seriously? Ehhhhhh.....

I like the idea of Varys being so worried about Mel's words that he decides to leave Camp Dany. Not sure where he would go though. Cersei would kill him at sight. I guess he could go north. (The idea of Varys in the north dressed in furs amuses me greatly.)

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7 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

There is only shreds of evidence to suggest he is a 'Merling', and I'm not a believer. Also a lot of the evidence is based from the books.

How can he be a Eunuch if he is a Merling, hes one or the other, its the idea that he uses being a Eunuch to cover up his real idenity as a Merling.

Again the sea shot just coincidence if anything. 

I really dont think this is going to happen, even with the Idea he wants to serve the realm, the people in it. I think he will meet his end being wrapped up in the web hes created as the notorious spider.

Exactly...he's NOT a eunuch and he was not a slave. That is how he's presenting himself. Mermen are discussed in the books, yet I don't believe a single one has been introduced in the books. But from what I understand, Varys seems to meet all the physical characteristics of a Merling

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10 minutes ago, Pontius2000 said:

Exactly...he's NOT a eunuch and he was not a slave. That is how he's presenting himself. Mermen are discussed in the books, yet I don't believe a single one has been introduced in the books. But from what I understand, Varys seems to meet all the physical characteristics of a Merling

You have missed part of my quote replying to the previous quote, Im not confirming the theory Lord Varys is a Merling and nor do I believe he is either. I don't think the show are just goingto chuck in something like this without putting a few clues in place. Unfortunately this is not the books and a TV show would not know what a Merling was so again pointless reference of books. Claiming he looks like a Merlin bares no reference to the show. Its like saying Tyrion meets the physical requirements of looking like the Mad King, so he must be Targaryen.

Edited by Samwell_Tarly

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2 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

You have missed part of my quote replying to the previous quote, Im not confirming the theory Lord Varys is a Merling and nor do I believe he is either. I don't think the show are just goingto chuck in something like this without putting a few clues in place. Unfortunately this is not the books and a TV show would not know what a Merling was so again pointless reference of books. Claiming he looks like a Merlin bares no reference to the show. Its like saying Tyrion meets the physical requirements of looking like the Mad King, so he must be Targaryen.

We'll see. There have actually been numerous clues that there is something secret being held back about Varys...His talk about the night he was castrated and hearing a voice in the fire. The previous red priestess referring to this voice in the fire. And now this stuff with Melisandre.

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10 hours ago, Pontius2000 said:

I've been wanting someone to bring this up. I feel this was the most important part of the entire episode, hidden in everything else that happened.

I'm sure you know about the "Varys is a Merman" theory. If not, look it up. I feel it's the best theory I've read.

When Mel said "I have to die in a foreign country, just like you", Varys didn't just do a double take. He looked absolutely horrified, like she knew a big secret about him. Him being a slave and eunuch isn't a secret at all.

I also found it interesting that the very next shot after their scene was a long shot of the sea...where Varys would be from if he's a Merman.

I have personally felt Varys will ultimately end up with the Iron Throne after betraying who finally wins it (either Dany or Jon probably). This scene either leaned in that direction or is just D+D f'ing with believers of that theory

Welcome to the board! You'll find that there are much better supported theories out there than the Merman Varys theory but good to see your interest!

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Varys is an eunuch. There is an scene in the show where a prostitute iirc discovers it. He was just surprised that Nel knows his future and hers. He knows that area priestess have powers and doesn't like it.

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11 hours ago, Septa Wantsmore said:

Remember back in season 3 (as far as I remember) when Melisandre met Arya and said: "We will meet again"! And since they haven't met again yet, I guess Melisandre will be back in Westeros, most likely to die by the hand of someone!

I thought the same thing, I always thought Arya was going to kill her. Maybe she is alluding that Varys will also be killed by Arya, although I don't know why

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11 minutes ago, Crona said:

I thought the same thing, I always thought Arya was going to kill her. Maybe she is alluding that Varys will also be killed by Arya, although I don't know why

Maybe Arya will recognise his voice from when she overheard Varys and Illyrio Mopatis plotting about killing the Hand (Ned) in the Red Keep dungeons in season 1. Varys does have a pretty distinct and unique sounding voice.

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2 minutes ago, Gaz0680 said:

Maybe Arya will recognise his voice from when she overheard Varys and Illyrio Mopatis plotting about killing the Hand (Ned) in the Red Keep dungeons in season 1. Varys does have a pretty distinct and unique sounding voice.

That's true, I had completely forgotten about that. That would be another blow to Dany

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