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Sir Dingleberry

Jon and Melisandra: 2 odd statements

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Just trying to figure this out:

1. Why did Jon stop Davos from saying he was killed and raised back to life?

2. Melisandra saying that she has to die in Westeros, does Jon kill her to "light" his sword for the Long Night? 

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1. They are already having problems convincing her that the Night King and his zombie army exist. Throwing in that you actually died and got reborn might not help your credibility in that moment.

2. Interesting thought. If Jon is to aquire a "Lightbringer" then maybe Mel can be Nissa Nissa... But actually I don't see it. Nissa Nissa of old was the lover of Azor Ahai and Mel seems more fond of burning other people than actually sacrificing herself.

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  1. Trying to persuade them that an army of dead is coming is hard enough, telling them that Jon was revived after his death will make his situation even crazier
  2. NK is the enemy of the red priests, they have interest in him more than Jon, they will be there in the front lines fighting him and even die trying,  I think she saw her future in the flames 

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I think Jon and Dany hook up, and pretty soon. They are not great actors and their "looks" when she gives him dragonglass are as close to smoldering as they can muster. I think all of this is simply meant as prelude.

As for Mellisandra, I do think her magic still has a role to play and I think that she thinks Jon is the Prince who was promised, but she seems to be wrong ALOT.

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1. Jon literally just said that there is a bunch of zombies coming along to kill them all. Admitting that he is a zombie himself would a) label him as a potential threat too, b ) discredit what he said about how dangerous the wights are because he seems like a rather normal guy.

2. no opinion tbh.

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5 hours ago, Fearodh said:

1. They are already having problems convincing her that the Night King and his zombie army exist. Throwing in that you actually died and got reborn might not help your credibility in that moment.

 

2 hours ago, snow is the man said:

1. Even if he can prove it (still has open cuts or something) it wouldn't make dany want to work with him

 

18 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

1. Jon literally just said that there is a bunch of zombies coming along to kill them all. Admitting that he is a zombie himself would a) label him as a potential threat too, b ) discredit what he said about how dangerous the wights are because he seems like a rather normal guy.

I mean I get the whole crazy conversation about the dead and all but Dany literally went into a fire and didn't die.  If anyone has a reason to somewhat believe someone when they said they were "killed and risen back" to life, she would be it (outside of Beric and Thoros).  I mean at the very least Dany could have understood it not to mean literally.  Either way, her asking Tyrion about it means that she'll ask him about it eventually I am assuming. Just felt like the crazy talk was out of the bag when he went straight into Wight talk. So, figured what was the worst that could happen by saying it lol.

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41 minutes ago, GrapefruitPerrier said:

As for Mellisandra, I do think her magic still has a role to play and I think that she thinks Jon is the Prince who was promised, but she seems to be wrong ALOT.

She has been wrong a lot about who the Prince is.  So, my thinking was that she is probably misinterpreting her role in the entire prophecy as well.   She knows she is gonna die in Westeros but her predictions have all been wrong. So, she may think she is dying one way when in reality she dies another (aka in order for the Prince's sword to light). A bit of a stretch, I know, but just a thought.

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Jon could have survivor's guilt.  We already know he asked Mel to let him stay dead, should he die, in the Battle of the Bastards.  And think about when we read about a commercial plane crash where only 10 people live.  Often they question -why them- and I think some real psychological issues are at work. 

Pragmatic Jon is probably thinking that it is hard enough to get folks to believe in the walking dead.  No reason to add in that he himself has been resurrected.  Philosophical Jon is probably struggling every day with the reality of his life.  We know he realized he wanted to live when he took the deep breath in Battle of the Bastards but I think we see his reluctance when Dany says she enjoys doing what she does best, and Jon says "I don't."

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52 minutes ago, Sir Dingleberry said:

I mean I get the whole crazy conversation about the dead and all but Dany literally went into a fire and didn't die.  If anyone has a reason to somewhat believe someone when they said they were "killed and risen back" to life, she would be it (outside of Beric and Thoros).  I mean at the very least Dany could have understood it not to mean literally.  Either way, her asking Tyrion about it means that she'll ask him about it eventually I am assuming. Just felt like the crazy talk was out of the bag when he went straight into Wight talk. So, figured what was the worst that could happen by saying it lol.

Um... I'd say that being immune to fire is a bit like not having an allergic reaction to peanuts, if I exaggerate a bit. You either have allergy or not, you're either immune to fire or not. While being dead and then resurrected is a whole different thing. But yeah, Dany have seen some unusual things (fire-proof, dragons, House of Undying) etc, so she could believe in Jon's resurrection. Why don't she believe in White Walkers etc, that remains a mystery though.

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12 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

Um... I'd say that being immune to fire is a bit like not having an allergic reaction to peanuts, if I exaggerate a bit. You either have allergy or not, you're either immune to fire or not. While being dead and then resurrected is a whole different thing. But yeah, Dany have seen some unusual things (fire-proof, dragons, House of Undying) etc, so she could believe in Jon's resurrection. Why don't she believe in White Walkers etc, that remains a mystery though.

I wouldn't say its a completely different thing. I would say being immune to fire would probably be more rare in the show than anything, because Beric has been raised back to life like 3 times at this point.  Also, she was "reborn" through fire and her dragons came out of the fire.  She has also seen things throughout her travels, as you said. In particular, her husband being cursed and her child killed through magic.  So, someone being raised back to life, through magic or whatever, isn't the craziest thing for a woman who has seen all the things she has. 

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48 minutes ago, Sir Dingleberry said:

I wouldn't say its a completely different thing. I would say being immune to fire would probably be more rare in the show than anything, because Beric has been raised back to life like 3 times at this point.  Also, she was "reborn" through fire and her dragons came out of the fire.  She has also seen things throughout her travels, as you said. In particular, her husband being cursed and her child killed through magic.  So, someone being raised back to life, through magic or whatever, isn't the craziest thing for a woman who has seen all the things she has. 

Are red priests immune to fire? I suppose that they might be. As there are (probably) thousands of red priests, immunity to fire ain't that rare. But that's just speculation, I'm not inventing things just to argue over them. :)

I more or less agree with the majority of things you said. As I wrote in my first post in this thread, I don't think that the main reason why Jon didn't let Davos say anything about his resurrection was because it is unbelievable. I think that by admitting that he is a zombie, he would gain nothing, it would only hurt him. If Jon is a zombie, either zombies aren't really dangerous, or Jon isn't a trustworthy person because zombies are dangerous. Of course it's possible that this (imo) logical outcome wouldn't happen and instead Dany would be like "That's super cool! You're like a Westerosi Jesus! Let's be best friends!" ;)

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10 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

Are red priests immune to fire? I suppose that they might be. As there are (probably) thousands of red priests, immunity to fire ain't that rare. But that's just speculation, I'm not inventing things just to argue over them. :)

I more or less agree with the majority of things you said. As I wrote in my first post in this thread, I don't think that the main reason why Jon didn't let Davos say anything about his resurrection was because it is unbelievable. I think that by admitting that he is a zombie, he would gain nothing, it would only hurt him. If Jon is a zombie, either zombies aren't really dangerous, or Jon isn't a trustworthy person because zombies are dangerous. Of course it's possible that this (imo) logical outcome wouldn't happen and instead Dany would be like "That's super cool! You're like a Westerosi Jesus! Let's be best friends!" ;)

Hahah ya, didn't mean to come across like that but agreed. 

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