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The Knight of Flours

Jon Snow - First of his Name....

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It would be a mix of his heritage and deeds. 

Jon Snow the White Wolf Reborn, Reclaimer of Winterfell, the Savior of the Wildlings, Slayer of the Dead, Defender of the Wall and Realm, the Bastard King. 

Things like that. That said Jon would never go for that. The Northerners wouldn't really care for that

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4 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

She brought the Dothraki across the Narrow Sea and radically changed their culture and their ways of life.  Jon is not her equal.  

Jon brought the wildlings across the wall and radically changed their way of life.... so...

Also I wonder how those ex(?) slaves are doing across the Narrow Sea without Dany's grace and class..

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Speaking of Essos, I wish Dany had kept those titles too. Queen of Meereen, Protector of the Bay of Dragons, etc.

 

 

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2 hours ago, snow is the man said:

Davo's didn't do well in that scene admittdely. He should have said "this is jon snow the king of the north." But dany's list of titles is ridiculously long and getting annoying. I think that if davos had introduced jon snow like that then jon would have come off looking far better since dany's sounded like someone who needs their ego stroked.

But that was entirely intentional, as  to highlight the contrast between them.
When I  was hearing  Missandei's long recitation,  immediately came to my mind Robert's "titles titles" on his deathbed, it was laughable.
Davos just saying "This is Jon Snow" and only after, as if he had forgot it, "Uh .. he's king in the north" was funny, and I think this was the intention. I think that also Jon's general wooden attitude was intentional, their first meeting was supposed to be uncomfortable. 

In addition, by showing Dani with that formal and arrogant royal-like an attitude, expecting to be honored, we are supposed to know better and look forward the moment we'll get to see her ego landing, when she'll be better informed ... "I am the last Targaryen" (nope, girl, you are not) "I was born to rule the Seven Kingdoms " (No, you were not, that would be your brothers) ... my birthright here, and my birthright  there and stuff (uhn, no,).  I think we are supposed to notice also that part of all this uncomfortableness was completely Tyrion's fault. She made him sent a letter to Jon inviting him, but also explicitly adding "and bend the knee", and Tyrion conveniently forgot the "bend the knee" part. So, logically when Jon shows up, she assumes her letter was well received and is expecting Jon to do something  he didn't even know it was expected from him, so for him it comes up as an unpleasent surprise. Tyrion was trying to get those two closer since the beginning, and continues to do so after the first not at all cordial meeting.
As for the titles, anyone can come up with a number of titles also for Jon, and his string is going to get longer and longer before all was said and done (adding stuff of his Targ heritage  and future deeds),   but I very much doubt that he'd ever give a damn about "titles titles".

Just for fun, what about?:  Jon Snow, the White Wolf, the King in the North, Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, the Heart Pierced, the Risen One, Peacemaker of Northeners and Freefolk, the Whitewalkerslayer, the Warg (the last one for book-Jon only)

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4 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

As Tywin Lannister said before 

''any man who must say I am the king is no true king''

I think this speaks volumes about Daenerys now.

:agree:

Daenerys' speech was all about her right and entitlement: born to rule, yada yada.

Jon's speech was all about his responsibility: need to protect the realm, the people, yada yada.

Jeez, I wonder whom I would choose as my leader...

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There are only three titles Jon needs: Jon Snow, The White Wolf, The King in the North. The King of Winter

That scene though was just not that good but it was to be expected. Jon is only looking to carry out his reponsibility to the North and the Realms of Men. Dany is just trying to conquer Westeros for the good of...who?

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6 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Jon is not as accomplished as Daenerys.  Daenerys is truthfully, Daenerys the Great.  She is responsible for the millions of former slaves who now have their freedom.  She brought the Dothraki across the Narrow Sea and radically changed their culture and their ways of life.  Jon is not her equal.  

Jon came across as immature, bad-mannered, and a rube during that meeting.  Dany showed grace and class.  

LOL. While Jon didn't exactly handle the situation well, or put forth a convincing case that she should help him, she came across as the most self-entitled, spoiled bitch ever. All her "arguments" were "I'm queen because I want to be queen and my dad was the king (BUT IM NOT MY DAD), so kneel. ( This is a hyperbole, of course). And her entire story about how she could only trust herself, might have been somewhat true in earlier seasons, when I still liked her, and even then she had Jorah bailing her out. She's got nothing on Jon, and he knows it, he's just too humble to continuously spout of about his achievements.

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I'd also really like if the show in fact at least touched on the subject of the chaos Dany caused in Slaver's Bay. Yes she freed millions of people from slavery, but then failed to introduce any sort of replacing social structure, resulting in the freed people not having any food or work any more and die due to starvation or sickness. Well done there Dany

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8 hours ago, Gaz0680 said:

I would say Daenerys and Jon are fairly close when it comes to inspiring men in the story, although they do so in different way. 

I agree with you that by declaring Jon King of the North, the Northern Lords basically once again announced their independence (just as they did when they named Robb KiTN) and their refusal to acknowledge the person on the Iron Throne as their ruler.

Essentially, they are not rebelling against the crown, that would be if they were trying to replace Cersei with someone else on the IT, which is not the case. 

The North is simply recognising a different entity as being the crown for them and declaring the Iron Throne as having no sovereignty and right to rule over the North.

Daenerys is far from an inspirer of men and definitely not compared to Jon. Why?

  • Gained Dothraki through shock factor - walked out of a burning hut
  • Gained Unsullied because she took them as slaves then freed them
  • Gained Second sons because the leader thought she was bang tidy - so betrayed the other leaders.
  • And the people she frees, disappear when she starts ruling.

My point about the North being in open rebellion it towards Cersei and not Daenerys. She takes him prisoner in all but name because the rules are not fair.

My point is there is a difference between introduction and respect. It was very Joffrey like the fact that she believes there is only one way you should speak to your ruling monarch and if you have not earned the respect, the title should be enough. As the episode plays out she sees she is not going to get this from Jon Snow. Daenerys is confused as Jon is wanting something else different to her and the rest of them.

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5 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

My point is there is a difference between introduction and respect. It was very Joffrey like the fact that she believes there is only one way you should speak to your ruling monarch and if you have not earned the respect, the title should be enough. As the episode plays out she sees she is not going to get this from Jon Snow. Daenerys is confused as Jon is wanting something else different to her and the rest of them.

I agree. Jon has confused couple of people so far in the series. He confused Mance and the wildlings by showing them more respect than any other members of the Watch were willing to show. The opposite of that is that he confused his black brothers by taking in and befriending the wildings.

Stannis was confused by him when he offered Jon the chance to become Jon Stark and be the Lord of Winterfell - in many ways Jon's heart's desire - and he turned it down.

Now he has confused Dany by being a King that doesn't want the Iron Throne or to be the power of Westeros, but wants help to fight the Night King and his army of the dead.

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8 hours ago, snow is the man said:

well technically that is rebeliing. When the south decided to leave the US they were rebelling and the north is doing the same thing in game of thrones. Not saying the northern lords aren't justified since they have essentially been screwed over by two of the last three rulers on the iron thrones. The mad king killed two starks and joff beheaded ned stark and then the lannisters helped with the red wedding. Tommen was only in power for less then a year and he was essentially a crown and nothing else since everyone else did everything for him. And I still think robert was a jerk for coming to winterfell and asking ned to be hand. Robert had brought a ton of people with him and ned refusing would have been seen as a slap in the face since they had travelled so far. So basically the north has not really had a good run with the iron throne.

I think the word you are looking for is "revolution".

 

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23 hours ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

He did not come off as second best. In fact, he was presented as humble. And that is a great quality in a king. Jon does not need titles like Dany needs hers.

And thaaaat's why he would be a better king to Westeros. It's not what he want, tho...

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Jon came off by far the best in that scene, instead of the pretentious clusterfuck of largely invented and/or meaningless titles that Dany throws around like the entitled teenager she is.

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7 hours ago, LucyMormont said:

Just for fun, what about?:  Jon Snow, the White Wolf, the King in the North, Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, the Heart Pierced, the Risen One, Peacemaker of Northeners and Freefolk, the Whitewalkerslayer, the Warg (the last one for book-Jon only)

You forgot "Knower of Nothing" (hey that kinda sounds vaguely deep and philosophical even if it actually means he's ignorant).

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Maybe Jon Snow of House Stark, King in The North, The Bastard of Winterfell, The White Wolf, 998º Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, The Reborn, White Walker Slayer, The Free Folk Ally, , The Only Person Who's Not Interest In Thrones But Cares About Real Threats Like The Night's King :P 

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2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Jon came off by far the best in that scene, instead of the pretentious clusterfuck of largely invented and/or meaningless titles that Dany throws around like the entitled teenager she is.

I agree with you here. Additionally, he wasn't that impressed with all her dragons, dothraki, titles and even with her dramatic lifestory and literally told her "so what, who do you think you are?!". He also wasn't impressed by her beauty as well (I know it wasn't her intention to impress him, but in the books and even in the series everyone is impressed by that)
I think she was really annoyed with him: after every single phrase about her right and all that he was unimpressed. And also he used her own manipulation against herself: I mean when she asks forgiveness on behalf of her family for her father's crimes and says that she should not be held responsible and he replies that he is not obligated by his ancestor's vows in return. She didn't expect that at all it seems. Plus, she was indeed childish.
Jon really did good during their meeting. He was true and loyal to his word and duty. And looked more humble than Dany.

P.S: It's been a long while since I posted anything on Forum (don't have much time, I usually just read the threads). And it is a first time I'm posting in a thread for series also (Usually I visit novels threads), so I guess saying "Hi" is appropriate. 

Edited by Gala

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2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Jon came off by far the best in that scene, instead of the pretentious clusterfuck of largely invented and/or meaningless titles that Dany throws around like the entitled teenager she is.

Yes Dany feels entitled to her father's throne. That is how feudalism works.  Her views on this are no different than any other high born heir in this world. Always cracks me up when people criticize her for this.

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31 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

Yes Dany feels entitled to her father's throne. That is how feudalism works.  Her views on this are no different than any other high born heir in this world. Always cracks me up when people criticize her for this.

People critisize her for this (well, at least that is why I do) because she brags about "crashing the wheel" at one point and in a next second she keeps repeating that she is born to be queen, she is rightful, everyone shoud kowtow to her majesty just because of her birthright (yes, I know how feudalism works). The problem is contradiction in her own words and actions. I am afraid she really thinks that she is a goddess of some sort - and that is annoying (well, that and her ignorance as well). Mind you, I actually like her character in the books.

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15 hours ago, El Guapo said:

It is pretty clear you are watching a different show or reading different books because these "points" are just silly.

The North is in open rebellion to the crown, that is a fact.  

Im watching the show, i really am :P I am referencing the fact that he is no in open rebellion to Daenerys who claims to be Queen when she isnt.

15 hours ago, El Guapo said:

She is portrayed nothing at all like Joffrey. lol.

She is a self entitled bratt who doesnt like it when she gets her own way and constantly says she is the Queen directly or indirectly.

15 hours ago, El Guapo said:

She apologized for the sins of her father, this is a bad thing?

She did and no its not but she still expects that he bends the knee to an Oath swore 300 years ago, which is ridiculous. It cant just work one way. 

15 hours ago, El Guapo said:

Finally, she inspires more loyalty among men than anyone else in the story.  

How does she inspire loyalty please give me a couple of examples?

15 hours ago, El Guapo said:

Like seriously, are you even watching the show?

 

Yes and if you read the recent comments youll see people agree with what I have said rather than your nonsense.

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3 hours ago, El Guapo said:

Yes Dany feels entitled to her father's throne. That is how feudalism works.  Her views on this are no different than any other high born heir in this world. Always cracks me up when people criticize her for this.

Did I say it was different from any other high born heir, though? I was contrasting her with Jon, who's fighting for the survival of everyone, rather than just gaining power for himself. Now I know literally no lords other than Stannis share(d) this view (and then only after Davos pulled his head out of his ass), but still - Dany is supposed to be this visionary leader, but her whole speech basically boiled down to "buh um da Queeeeeeeen" (arches eyebrows dramatically).

Very happy Jon called her out on her hypocritical bullshit over how everyone is supposed to serve her because "ancient history, great-great-whatever grandfather promised while being held up at dragonpoint", but all she has to say is "yeah my dad was evil, I guess, but it doesn't matter" and therefore they should put her on the throne?

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