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The Knight of Flours

Jon Snow - First of his Name....

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16 hours ago, El Guapo said:

And again if you don't think she inspires loyalty among her men than you have not been watching the show or you are just so biased in your opinions of Dany that you won't admit it. I can't believe you are even trying to debate this point.

Tyrion literally tells Jon to go and ask Dany's people about her in this very episode. This place will never change. :lol:

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39 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

You guys crack me up and I hate to break it to you but if Jon becomes King of the Seven Kingdoms.... He is going to have lots of titles as all monarchs do.

That's actually the whole point, really. He doesn't want to be a King (even of the Seven Kingdoms) and I really doubt that he will. I suspect something like Cregan Stark story: being the Hand for a day and leaving home to the North, at best. (If he even survives the winter and WW, because I suspect that the end of this war will be the end of magic, so he will probably die, since he was revived by magic)
I love Jon both in the books and show, and really-really do to want and do not see him on the IT, even if he is legitimate son of R+L. He is a protector, not the ruler.
ETA: The same as Ned was a good Lord, but not so much successful Hand

Edited by Gala

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17 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

She has no claim, her father was overthrew and thats that. Its her view, this is exactly what I'm saying its her view and its incorrect. 

Again taken my words out of context aabout referring to Tywins words as a reference to Cersei.

Hows is the Greatjon Umber any reference to a stark/targaryen oath, the targaryens were overthrew so it bares no reference.

As pointed out before she doesnt inspire loyalty, the unsullied know no difference and never will. You really think the Dothraki are loyal to her,if you believe this your very deluded. What do you think they are going to do after the war, stay true to no pillaging raping. I think not. Missandei maybe yes, Jorah is a love sick child. Tyrion was handed to her as a gift, they shared a few common traits and thats about it. She in spires little to no loyalty.

 

Of course she has a claim, in the same way that Henry of Anjou, the infant Prince Henry, and Charles Stuart had claims, notwithstanding that Empress Matilda, King John, and Charles I respectively had been overthrown.

The issue is whether she is able to enforce that claim.

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33 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

You guys crack me up and I hate to break it to you but if Jon becomes King of the Seven Kingdoms.... He is going to have lots of titles as all monarchs do.

It's not about the amount of titles. It's about not letting that get to your head.

Hate to break it, but Dany is losing it a little. 

Dany often demands respect (my dragons,my army bla bla), while Jon earns it. And that's a fact.

 I guess we will see more of that during this season. Tho I hope she will realize that and change.

She's not a bad ruler at all. But I'm afraid she's going to lose control and let the power frenzy take over. 

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11 hours ago, El Guapo said:

So what?  They supported her claim. Does it really matter why?  All Lords in the Seven Kingdoms have their own agenda. Supporting Daenerys fit their agenda. 

Jesus what the f**k you on?

The whole point we are discussing/arguing is about about inspiring loyalty, your just talking jibberish. You seriously contradicting yourself

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1 minute ago, Fexyr said:

It's not about the amount of titles. It's about not letting that get to your head.

Hate to break it, but Dany is losing it a little. 

Dany often demands respect (my dragons,my army bla bla), while Jon earns it. And that's a fact.

 I guess we will see more of that during this season. Tho I hope she will realize that and change.

She's not a bad ruler at all. But I'm afraid she's going to lose control and let the power frenzy take over. 

No it isn't. It is pretty much BS. Go back and watch the scenes between Dany and Tyrion in season 6 episode 10 and then tell me that Dany didn't earn his respect.  There are plenty of other examples as well.

 

 

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On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 8:56 AM, The Knight of Flours said:

OK, Obviously Missandei has had a lot of practice, announcing Dany's ever-growing list of titles, over and over....

But Jon came off clearly second-best when Davos introduced him...

So how could Jon have been announced?

 

How about:

Jon Snow, King in the North, Blood of the Direwolf, Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, The Peacemaker, A Prince Reborn

 

The above only relates to his Stark/Snow heritage - nothing about his Targaryan ancestry (although the reborn prince bit would also fit with that line)

 

Any other suggestions as to titles he could use when meeting Dany or other rulers?

"His Majesty John of House Stark, First of His Name, by the Grace of the Old Gods and the New, King of the North, Defender of the Faith of the Seven, Lord of Winterfell, the Wolfswood and the Stony Shore,  Protector of the Night's Watch, bids greeting to Lady Daenerys Targaryen of Dragonstone, styling herself Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men."

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6 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Jesus what the f**k you on?

The whole point we are discussing/arguing is about about inspiring loyalty, your just talking jibberish. You seriously contradicting yourself

Please try to keep up. I addressed this on the previous page. I am not going to repeat myself.

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19 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Tyrion literally tells Jon to go and ask Dany's people about her in this very episode. This place will never change. :lol:

Some people wont admit when they are wrong ha :)

53 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

You guys crack me up and I hate to break it to you but if Jon becomes King of the Seven Kingdoms.... He is going to have lots of titles as all monarchs do.

Again completely off topic now, its not about the titles. 

Anyway ill let you continue to argue your bullshit to rest of the people. Im on to discuss more pressing issues like what the hell did Podrick Payne do to them hookers.

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8 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

what the hell did Podrick Payne do to them hookers

asking the real questions

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10 hours ago, El Guapo said:

I never said she inspired loyalty from Olenna, Ellaria or Yara for that matter. Quite frankly she didn't know them long enough to inspire that. What I did say was that she inspired loyalty among her closest followers, those that she has built relationships with over a period of time,  and the armies that follow her.

Then how does she inspire more loyalty than anyone else? If she only inspired 2 armies and lets lump in the second sons in there too

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9 hours ago, El Guapo said:

You guys crack me up and I hate to break it to you but if Jon becomes King of the Seven Kingdoms.... He is going to have lots of titles as all monarchs do.

Yeah, so what? He won't list them all, every second of every day like Dany does xD

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19 hours ago, El Guapo said:

No it isn't. It is pretty much BS. Go back and watch the scenes between Dany and Tyrion in season 6 episode 10 and then tell me that Dany didn't earn his respect.  There are plenty of other examples as well.

 

 

I meant loyalty, not respect, my apologies.

And I said often. The Unsullied had no choice, because all they know is serving a master. The Dothraki had no choice, because she burned all their leaders. Ollena/Sand Snakes/Yara seek revenge. Varys is following her for now, but I'm sure he's not loyal to her. 

Tyrion, Jorah, Missandei (and I'm a supporter of that theory that Missandei is betraying Dany) and Grey Worm are the ones that are loyal to her by choice.  

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1 hour ago, Fexyr said:

I meant loyalty, not respect, my apologies.

And I said often. The Unsullied had no choice, because all they know is serving a master. The Dothraki had no choice, because she burned all their leaders. Ollena/Sand Snakes/Yara seek revenge. Varys is following her for now, but I'm sure he's not loyal to her. 

Tyrion, Jorah, Missandei (and I'm a supporter of that theory that Missandei is betraying Dany) and Grey Worm are the ones that are loyal to her by choice.  

I would add  Barristan to this list  as well, despite the fact that he is dead and that he also didn't know another way of living - just serve as a kingsguard, being a warrior.

Edited by Gala

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30 minutes ago, Gala said:

I would add to this list  Barristan as well, despite the fact that he is dead and that he also didn't know another way of living - just serve as a kingsguard, being a warrior.

Barristan, yes!

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Honestly this is my last post on this subject as it seems some people are just going to completely ignore what has been shown on this show (including as Nictariion pointed out above) a scene from this past episode. The Dothraki have no  choice?  This is a new one that has no basis in fact from what we were shown on the show?  The Unsullied just know how to follow a master?  Really? Just ignore the fact that Greyworm clearly stated a couple seasons ago that he follows Dany because Dany was the one who set him free.  Not to mention the fact that he is not some mindless automaton that as w have been shown the last few seasons that he has emotions, feelings and his own thoughts ( as we were shown last season with his arguments with Tyrion). Now the latest is Barristan.  Another mindless guy who had no choice but follow Dany.  Even though he easily could have joined up with Renly or hell even Stannis considering he sailed right past Dragonstone on his way to Find Dany.  In the books he even hides his identity because he wants to make sure she is worthy. But whatever...

Edited by El Guapo

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2 hours ago, El Guapo said:

Honestly this is my last post on this subject as it seems some people are just going to completely ignore what has been shown on this show (including as Nictariion pointed out above) a scene from this past episode. The Dothraki have no  choice?  This is a new one that has no basis in fact from what we were shown on the show?  The Unsullied just know how to follow a master?  Really? Just ignore the fact that Greyworm clearly stated a couple seasons ago that he follows Dany because Dany was the one who set him free.  Not to mention the fact that he is not some mindless automaton that as w have been shown the last few seasons that he has emotions, feelings and his own thoughts ( as we were shown last season with his arguments with Tyrion). Now the latest is Barristan.  Another mindless guy who had no choice but follow Dany.  Even though he easily could have joined up with Renly or hell even Stannis considering he sailed right past Dragonstone on his way to Find Dany.  In the books he even hides his identity because he wants to make sure she is worthy. But whatever...

Well, yes, she inspires loyalty, but in another manner, not like Jon.
Dothraki despise weakness - she is not weak and the dothraki are pretty simple people, so giving birth to dragons and being a rider of that huge beast  (I am not going to make an example of her "not burning in Vaes Dothrak" because that's just silly- Dothraki despise witches and episode was just bad writing) - seems quite appropriate to inspire loyalty from them. If you want reference from the books - Dany thinks of Dothraki as their property really, she thinks they owe her. There was an episode in the books, when dothraki girls were arguing about young dothraki boy (he grew up and became quite an attractive man), and Dany tells them that neither of them would get that boy as he belonged to her - as if they are children.
Unsullied were slaves and of course, they love the person who let them free - that is another type of loyalty. They actully told her that they do not know their homelands, do not know what they would do with their freedom and that the only thing they know is fighting, so they chose to continue living that life and help Dany.
Barristan chose Dany because he was done with Baratheons (he was bitter at that time) and let's be fair he felt guilty after Rebellion that he lived and served another king, I also suspect that Varys played the part here as well somehow, so I don't see it as something incredible that he chose Dany over Renly or Stannis (I think that he wasn't fond of both of them in the first place). Yes, after he made certain that she is not the Mad King, he decided to serve her. I am not questioning Barristan loyalty - he is loyal. That is his nature - to be loyal.
Messandei - in the books is still a little child and her brother is an Unsullied, so she definitely stays with Dany and Dany frees her and is good to her. That is another type of loyalty.
Jorah is just madly in love. That also inspires loyalty.
Tyrion - I am not sure what will happen in the books, but in the show he also checked whether she is not the Mad King. But he respected her for her decisions and also she really appreciated him which is something Tyrion waited for a long time from the world. That is another type of loyalty.
Olenna, Yara and Dornish - well, it has been stated few times that they sick revenge, help...well, why not that can inspire loyalty as well.
Jon, well Jon, is another matter. The difference is that he does not expects loyalty from people, he just does what is necessary for everyone's wellfare. He makes harsh and hard decisions not out of revenge (slavery) or not in order to show his power (for conquering), but because this decisions must be made and he himself takes full responsibility for them. That inspires deep respect and another type of loyalty. That type of loyalty a person can get only on the battlefield with sword in his/her hand.
Probably, that's why people think that Dany does not inspire loyalty. I just see different types. And yes, I always thought that Jon is much better person than Dany is, although, I like both characters.

Edited by Gala

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Dany's drawn out title is an embarrassment. She disgraces herself by allowing Missandei to recite it every time she has a visitor.

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