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Sir Dingleberry

Jamie, Cersei, and the Mad King

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I know this has been talked about before but I haven't seen any discussion on this after the past episode.  Jamie told Olenna that "after they win and build a peaceful world the people won't care what was done in order to achieve those means." I just don't understand how his character can say that.  He killed the Mad King for wanting to burn Kings Landing and confessed that to Brienne a couple seasons back.  The Mad King did all that he did, I am assuming, in order to "maintain" peace but all that he did is still spoken about today (ie half of Dany/Jon convo was about forgiving this) and the Mad king is spoken about regularly.  Also, he literally told Euron that the same crowd cheering was booing his sister a little while ago. So, how is he all of a sudden just turning his back on all the terrible things Cersei is doing in order to "maintain the peace."

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8 hours ago, Sir Dingleberry said:

I know this has been talked about before but I haven't seen any discussion on this after the past episode.  Jamie told Olenna that "after they win and build a peaceful world the people won't care what was done in order to achieve those means." I just don't understand how his character can say that.  He killed the Mad King for wanting to burn Kings Landing and confessed that to Brienne a couple seasons back.  The Mad King did all that he did, I am assuming, in order to "maintain" peace but all that he did is still spoken about today (ie half of Dany/Jon convo was about forgiving this) and the Mad king is spoken about regularly.  Also, he literally told Euron that the same crowd cheering was booing his sister a little while ago. So, how is he all of a sudden just turning his back on all the terrible things Cersei is doing in order to "maintain the peace."

Well actually him blowing up kings landing was more about him giveing a FU to everyone and making their win mean nothing. He had already lost and he knew it so he was essentially killing everyone in kings landing because he wanted to go out in style and hurting the people who won. As for him dealing with what cersei does I think he knows it isn't true but can't leave her now because of love.

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Jaime's character makes absolutely zero sense in the show. Just stop trying to give any depth to this mess of a character. Cersei is the real complex person here, Jaime is just a mindless grunt at this point. Extremely unlikeable. Olenna was right. He is too far gone.

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Just now, Paid Debt Lannister said:

Jaime's character makes absolutely zero sense in the show. Just stop trying to give any depth to this mess of a character. Cersei is the real complex person here, Jaime is just a mindless grunt at this point. Extremely unlikeable. 

 

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What possesses someone to quote their own post?

Jamie loves Cerei. 

She's going to have to become Aerys on steroids for Jamie to finally become the Vaonqar and have a hand in saving the world. Again.

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11 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Its pretty simple why hes doing what hes doing.......... Love blowjob

If Jaime is wreaking havoc on the ground of "love" then we can safely say that he has not progressed a single millimeter since season 1 episode 1. 

We could even say he degressed because in season 1 episode 1 he was loving his unhappily married sister. Now he is loving his sister who killed at least half if not close to all the nobility of King's Landing, the very ideal of which is something Jaime killed the Mad King for. 

But I'm sure the poison lip blowjobs are worth it. 

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2 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

If Jaime is wreaking havoc on the ground of "love" then we can safely say that he has not progressed a single millimeter since season 1 episode 1. 

We could even say he degressed because in season 1 episode 1 he was loving his unhappily married sister. Now he is loving his sister who killed at least half if not close to all the nobility of King's Landing, the very ideal of which is something Jaime killed the Mad King for. 

But I'm sure the poison lip blowjobs are worth it. 

But the Mad King was just the Mad King to him. Yes, he was sworn to protect him, but he had no love for Aerys so it wouldn't take as much for Jaime to turn against him. Cersei is his twin sister/lover. She has screwed him over and demeaned him so many times over the years and he still loves her. The idea of him not being quick to kill her even after mass murdering so many people is not that hard to believe.

I think it is going to take a more personal slight for him to finally kill her. Maybe even catching her in bed with another man, possibly Euron. Though I always pictured he would kill her in a similar style to when he killed Aerys, with the city being sacked and Jaime witnessing Cersei's true madness, that way he could be pardoned by Dany, like he was by Robert.

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1 minute ago, JordanJH1993 said:

But the Mad King was just the Mad King to him. Yes, he was sworn to protect him, but he had no love for Aerys so it wouldn't take as much for Jaime to turn against him. Cersei is his twin sister/lover. She has screwed him over and demeaned him so many times over the years and he still loves her. The idea of him not being quick to kill her even after mass murdering so many people is not that hard to believe.

I think it is going to take a more personal slight for him to finally kill her. Maybe even catching her in bed with another man, possibly Euron. Though I always pictured he would kill her in a similar style to when he killed Aerys, with the city being sacked and Jaime witnessing Cersei's true madness, that way he could be pardoned by Dany, like he was by Robert.

Cersei already screwed Lancel, not sure show Jaime knows that. Also Jaime knows that Euron wants to marry Cersei and Cersei point blank told him he would get what his heart desires when the war is won. Jaime hasn't raised any complaints so far. 

What I could see is Tyrion being captured, and Jaimie having to choose between him and Cersei.

Still, it completely undermines Jaime's character that he tolerates the shit Cersei does. 

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22 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

Also Jaime knows that Euron wants to marry Cersei and Cersei point blank told him he would get what his heart desires when the war is won. Jaime hasn't raised any complaints so far. 

He's clearly not happy about the idea, but then I don't think Cersei is planning to honour her promises in that regard, and I don't think Jaime expects her to, either.

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6 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

He's clearly not happy about the idea, but then I don't think Cersei is planning to honour her promises in that regard, and I don't think Jaime expects her to, either.

Well, he wasn't happy about Robert either, but a legal spouse is not a disadvantage when you are playing at being queen, and Jaime should understand that. 

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14 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

Well, he wasn't happy about Robert either, but a legal spouse is not a disadvantage when you are playing at being queen, and Jaime should understand that. 

Well, I guess time will tell. But Cersei telling someone what essentially amounts to "I'll reward you when I no longer need you" doesn't give me a lot of confidence that said reward will ever manifest itself.

As for Jaime, he might understand the practicalities of a legal husband, but since Cersei is ruling without marrying during the time when she needs allies and public approval the most, I don't see why he would be understanding about it after the war is won.

Of course I still think he'll be the one to kill Cersei in the end, but he's not there yet.

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1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

Well, I guess time will tell. But Cersei telling someone what essentially amounts to "I'll reward you when I no longer need you" doesn't give me a lot of confidence that said reward will ever manifest itself.

As for Jaime, he might understand the practicalities of a legal husband, but since Cersei is ruling without marrying during the time when she needs allies and public approval the most, I don't see why he would be understanding about it after the war is won.

Of course I still think he'll be the one to kill Cersei in the end, but he's not there yet.

Yeah, the current situation doesn't make sense on a number of levels, starting with Cersei's queenship. Oh well. I kinda got over that already. 

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13 hours ago, snow is the man said:

Well actually him blowing up kings landing was more about him giveing a FU to everyone and making their win mean nothing. He had already lost and he knew it so he was essentially killing everyone in kings landing because he wanted to go out in style and hurting the people who won. As for him dealing with what cersei does I think he knows it isn't true but can't leave her now because of love.

Ya, I agree with that on the Kings Landing part.  I meant all that actions that led to the rebellion and everything in between as the Mad Kings "attempt at keeping the peace."

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12 hours ago, Paid Debt Lannister said:

Jaime's character makes absolutely zero sense in the show. Just stop trying to give any depth to this mess of a character. Cersei is the real complex person here, Jaime is just a mindless grunt at this point. Extremely unlikeable. Olenna was right. He is too far gone.

Agreed, Jamie did have depth but now is a mindless character, his realisation of Cersei should have happened a while ago, if was going to happen,  not give the character depth then take it back from him. I dont want him to be the Valonqar, hes too far gone now for this.

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It's pretty obvious to me that the plot isn't ready for Jaime to have his break from Cersei, but they don't know what else he could be doing ( in the books it'll be something with Brienne and LSH) so for now his character makes absolutely no sense by sticking with Cersei.

Completely destroyed any character he had, and totally makes his "redemption" pointless.

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1 hour ago, BrightStar Of The Day said:

It's pretty obvious to me that the plot isn't ready for Jaime to have his break from Cersei, but they don't know what else he could be doing ( in the books it'll be something with Brienne and LSH) so for now his character makes absolutely no sense by sticking with Cersei.

Completely destroyed any character he had, and totally makes his "redemption" pointless.

Yeah I think that's what's happening, it's just kinda ridiculous because they already did what was supposed to be the beginning of his break from Cersei a few seasons ago, and then all of a sudden he does a 180 and is all behind her again (until he eventually kills her).

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8 hours ago, Sir Dingleberry said:

Ya, I agree with that on the Kings Landing part.  I meant all that actions that led to the rebellion and everything in between as the Mad Kings "attempt at keeping the peace."

fair enough

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On 8/1/2017 at 11:10 AM, Sir Dingleberry said:

The Mad King did all that he did, I am assuming, in order to "maintain" peace

Why would you assume that? Nobody in-universe seems to think that's true. Jaime, Barristan, and other people who were there have talked about it, and they all seem to think everything he did was motivated by paranoia and spite, not by an interest in maintaining peace. 

True, the realm was peaceful for much of Aerys's reign, but more in spite of him than because of him. In fact, it was arguably because Jaime's father, as Hand, was willing to do whatever it took to preserve peace. Exactly as Jaime claims Cersei is doing now.

Of course in reality, Cersei is far more Aerys than Tywin, and Jaime has to lie to himself to believe otherwise. But the fact that she clearly wants to be Tywin, and believes that she's pulling it off, makes that lie a lot easier to swallow.

And when you ask when Jaime is going to finally get over Cersei and do the right thing, I think that's where the answer is: when that lie to himself becomes unsustainable.

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