Jordan La Cabra Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 The fact is that it now looks like Jorah is going to go and find Daenerys again now that he has been cured of greyscale, and presumably, she is going to welcome him back into her council, as he was always skilled when it came to advising her (probably better than Tyrion has been). We don't know when he is going to meet up with her, but usually things like this don't take long to happen in the show. Jon decided he was going to meet Daenerys in one episode and was in Dragonstone the next, having travelled from Winterfell. If Jorah arrives in Dragonstone while Jon is there, how do people imagine the relationship between Jon and Jorah to be? There should be a degree of tension between them given that Jorah was a bannerman to the Starks but fled Westeros when Ned came to give him the death penalty after slave trading. As Warden of the North, Jorah's fate should be in Jon's hands and he may feel the need to carry out the penalty Ned had in store for Jorah, but given Jorah is an ally of Daenerys and also Jeor Mormont's son, perhaps Jon will pardon him. Jon has Jorah's sword, Longclaw, too. But should Jon pardon him that doesn't mean Jorah would like him, as it is looking likely the show is setting Jon up as a potential love interest for Daenerys, who Jorah is madly in love with. Of course, Jon and Jorah may never meet, but I do think it would be quite an intriguing dynamic if they were to meet, as there are many things already connecting them together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan La Cabra Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 As an add on: Jorah, as a northerner, a fellow deserter and a son of a former Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, would likely be more willing to question how Jon on how a member of the Night's Watch managed to forsake his vows and leave the Watch without being looked upon as a deserter, never mind take lands and become 'King' in the North. For the how's and why's didn't really seem to bother Daenerys or Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Lovejoy Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Jorah makes one mention of Samwell and any second thoughts Jon has about Jorah will be gone. I doubt Jorah's history with Ned even comes up though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Stark Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 4 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said: As an add on: Jorah, as a northerner, a fellow deserter and a son of a former Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, would likely be more willing to question how Jon on how a member of the Night's Watch managed to forsake his vows and leave the Watch without being looked upon as a deserter, never mind take lands and become 'King' in the North. For the how's and why's didn't really seem to bother Daenerys or Tyrion. Jon didn't break his vows. He died. His watch was over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan La Cabra Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Jaehaerys Stark said: Jon didn't break his vows. He died. His watch was over... Yes...which we know and a select few from the story know. Jon doesn't seem to want Dany to know this fact, but surely Jorah is going to wonder how he was able to leave the Watch and Jon is either going to have to tell them or make up a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkofWinterfell Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 49 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said: Yes...which we know and a select few from the story know. Jon doesn't seem to want Dany to know this fact, but surely Jorah is going to wonder how he was able to leave the Watch and Jon is either going to have to tell them or make up a lie. You're giving D&D too much credit. They'll gloss over it just like they glossed over Ghost's whereabouts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan La Cabra Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 14 minutes ago, StarkofWinterfell said: You're giving D&D too much credit. They'll gloss over it just like they glossed over Ghost's whereabouts Being a potential deserter of the Night's Watch is a pretty big deal, though - something big enough to warrant punishment by death. Daenerys may not take much interest in the wall or even know that deserters receive such a strong punishment, but a smart man like Tyrion who was once a King's hand should know this. The fact he seems to have no questions as to why Jon was able to leave and take lands is something that really should have been added in. It is cheap writing on D&D's behalf if they are simple not letting people ask Jon the questions regarding it because Jon doesn't want to tell the answers, or as a writers they can't think up a lie on Jon's behalf that is strong enough to cover for the fact he died. If Jorah was to meet Jon the writers would have to address the issue, as there is no way they could convince us that a northerner, a former Stark bannerman and a son of a former Lord Commander wouldn't wonder how Jon was able to leave the Night's Watch without being killed for desertion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkofWinterfell Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 25 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said: Being a potential deserter of the Night's Watch is a pretty big deal, though - something big enough to warrant punishment by death. Daenerys may not take much interest in the wall or even know that deserters receive such a strong punishment, but a smart man like Tyrion who was once a King's hand should know this. The fact he seems to have no questions as to why Jon was able to leave and take lands is something that really should have been added in. It is cheap writing on D&D's behalf if they are simple not letting people ask Jon the questions regarding it because Jon doesn't want to tell the answers, or as a writers they can't think up a lie on Jon's behalf that is strong enough to cover for the fact he died. If Jorah was to meet Jon the writers would have to address the issue, as there is no way they could convince us that a northerner, a former Stark bannerman and a son of a former Lord Commander wouldn't wonder how Jon was able to leave the Night's Watch without being killed for desertion. I still think you're giving them too much credit. It won't even be addressed, guaranteed. This thing might come up in the books if Jorah and Jon ever meet but the show doesn't have time to waste on that right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyMormont Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 9 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said: The fact is that it now looks like Jorah is going to go and find Daenerys again now that he has been cured of greyscale, and presumably, she is going to welcome him back into her council, as he was always skilled when it came to advising her (probably better than Tyrion has been). We don't know when he is going to meet up with her, but usually things like this don't take long to happen in the show. Jon decided he was going to meet Daenerys in one episode and was in Dragonstone the next, having travelled from Winterfell. If Jorah arrives in Dragonstone while Jon is there, how do people imagine the relationship between Jon and Jorah to be? There should be a degree of tension between them given that Jorah was a bannerman to the Starks but fled Westeros when Ned came to give him the death penalty after slave trading. As Warden of the North, Jorah's fate should be in Jon's hands and he may feel the need to carry out the penalty Ned had in store for Jorah, but given Jorah is an ally of Daenerys and also Jeor Mormont's son, perhaps Jon will pardon him. Jon has Jorah's sword, Longclaw, too. But should Jon pardon him that doesn't mean Jorah would like him, as it is looking likely the show is setting Jon up as a potential love interest for Daenerys, who Jorah is madly in love with. Of course, Jon and Jorah may never meet, but I do think it would be quite an intriguing dynamic if they were to meet, as there are many things already connecting them together. In this moment, things are plain and simple to Jon, there's only two sides: the living and the Others. He wouldn't take into account old transgressions, unless they are a threat for the Living side, and Jorah isn't (unless his grayscale comes back and he starts by contact killing people that later can be "wightified"... not likely). So I guess they'll get along well, although I don't know how Jorah's reaction will be when he finds out that his family's ancestral valyrian steel sword is now Jon's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Stark Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 15 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said: Yes...which we know and a select few from the story know. Jon doesn't seem to want Dany to know this fact, but surely Jorah is going to wonder how he was able to leave the Watch and Jon is either going to have to tell them or make up a lie. I agree. It is a huge plot hole. I'm more surprised that NONE of the northern lords have brought it up. Not really sure why Jon wants to keep his resurrection under the radar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Stark Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 13 hours ago, LucyMormont said: In this moment, things are plain and simple to Jon, there's only two sides: the living and the Others. He wouldn't take into account old transgressions, unless they are a threat for the Living side, and Jorah isn't (unless his grayscale comes back and he starts by contact killing people that later can be "wightified"... not likely). So I guess they'll get along well, although I don't know how Jorah's reaction will be when he finds out that his family's ancestral valyrian steel sword is now Jon's. If you're into spoilers, it is already explained how that conversation will go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan La Cabra Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, Jaehaerys Stark said: I agree. It is a huge plot hole. I'm more surprised that NONE of the northern lords have brought it up. Not really sure why Jon wants to keep his resurrection under the radar... Exactly my point. None of them seem to wonder why he was able to leave the NW, yet they would all know that you are bound by your vows until you die, unless you desert, which then makes you an outlaw. Maybe they were all just so delighted Jon had the balls to face Ramsey that they didn't care about the details, but it is still very strange to me. We can only speculate as to why he doesn't want anyone to know, but maybe he just imagines they wouldn't be able to look at him the same if they knew he had been resurrected. Maybe he thinks they'd see him as some sort of freak or not quite a whole human - unstable, perhaps. You want to have authority as a King, but you don't want to rule by having your men scared of you. As for not telling Daenerys, I am guessing the fact she wasn't so open minded to the idea of the WW and the army of the dead put him off feeding her with another hard to believe story that he was killed by members of the NW and brought back to life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Stark Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 35 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said: Exactly my point. None of them seem to wonder why he was able to leave the NW, yet they would all know that you are bound by your vows until you die, unless you desert, which then makes you an outlaw. Maybe they were all just so delighted Jon had the balls to face Ramsey that they didn't care about the details, but it is still very strange to me. We can only speculate as to why he doesn't want anyone to know, but maybe he just imagines they wouldn't be able to look at him the same if they knew he had been resurrected. Maybe he thinks they'd see him as some sort of freak or not quite a whole human - unstable, perhaps. You want to have authority as a King, but you don't want to rule by having your men scared of you. As for not telling Daenerys, I am guessing the fact she wasn't so open minded to the idea of the WW and the army of the dead put him off feeding her with another hard to believe story that he was killed by members of the NW and brought back to life. That's the only rationale I can think of as well regarding why he stopped Davos from telling Dany. Hard enough to sell the idea of WW without them thinking your really off your rocker by telling them you ere resurrected from the dead. Although, to be honest, I'm surprised Melisandre didn't bring it up either while she was selling Dany on the idea of working with Jon. The show is doing this on purpose, I'm just not sure why, and I'm really hoping that they reveal it to everyone later, as opposed to just not bringing it up ever again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samwell_Tarly Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 16 minutes ago, Jaehaerys Stark said: That's the only rationale I can think of as well regarding why he stopped Davos from telling Dany. Hard enough to sell the idea of WW without them thinking your really off your rocker by telling them you ere resurrected from the dead. Although, to be honest, I'm surprised Melisandre didn't bring it up either while she was selling Dany on the idea of working with Jon. The show is doing this on purpose, I'm just not sure why, and I'm really hoping that they reveal it to everyone later, as opposed to just not bringing it up ever again... Its exactly that. Its hard to explain but it would go a little something like this, Well the Army of the dead were people who were alive but were killed and resurrected by the White Walkers who lead them, there are like humans but made of what only can be described as ice. And by the way my brothers from the nights watch killed me and I was resurrected too by Melisandre. Jon will end up dead again. Jons completely confused Daernerys, she thought he was coming to bend the knee and he hasnt, confirming he needs her help and telling her she needs his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Jaehaerys Stark said: I agree. It is a huge plot hole. I'm more surprised that NONE of the northern lords have brought it up. Not really sure why Jon wants to keep his resurrection under the radar... This is not true. Ramsey Bolton brought it up during the parley prior to the battle of the bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Stark Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 53 minutes ago, El Guapo said: This is not true. Ramsey Bolton brought it up during the parley prior to the battle of the bastards. I am referring to the gathering of the northern lords post BotB, where they named Jon KITN. Nobody there brought it up, which is surprising since they are very much into oaths and vows. Not to mention Jon's "dad" Ned was Warden of the North and responsible for beheading deserters of the NW, Granted, if someone did in fact bring it up, it can be easily explained that his watch was over based on the fact that he did indeed die, fulfilling his vow. But it hasn't been addressed, so technically, other than Davos and Mel, nobody outside of Castle Black knows about his resurrection. You'd think something like that would have made it's way down from the Wall by now. And maybe it has. But nobody is talking about it on the show, which makes it a huge plot hole... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Stark Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 59 minutes ago, El Guapo said: This is not true. Ramsey Bolton brought it up during the parley prior to the battle of the bastards. Plus, Ramsey mentioned him leaving the NW, not the resurrection... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samwell_Tarly Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 25 minutes ago, Jaehaerys Stark said: Plus, Ramsey mentioned him leaving the NW, not the resurrection... Of course Ramsay wouldnt havnt mentioned the resurrection as he does know and thats Jons explanation for leaving the Nights Watch. 26 minutes ago, Jaehaerys Stark said: I am referring to the gathering of the northern lords post BotB, where they named Jon KITN. Nobody there brought it up, which is surprising since they are very much into oaths and vows. Not to mention Jon's "dad" Ned was Warden of the North and responsible for beheading deserters of the NW, Granted, if someone did in fact bring it up, it can be easily explained that his watch was over based on the fact that he did indeed die, fulfilling his vow. But it hasn't been addressed, so technically, other than Davos and Mel, nobody outside of Castle Black knows about his resurrection. You'd think something like that would have made it's way down from the Wall by now. And maybe it has. But nobody is talking about it on the show, which makes it a huge plot hole... I maybe think its possibly bad writing again, Ramsay mentioning it was like for everyone. The shows way of bringing it up just so its been mentioned but not addressed properly. In episode 2 you would have thought Melisandre would have went into a bit more detail about Jon snow and why he was important etc. Maybe its another off screen sceen that we havnt or wont see :S who nows but im pretty sure its gone past been addressed now and it wont be mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan La Cabra Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 Can one of you guys remind of the rough details of the exchange between Ramsey and Jon regarding him leaving the NW? I can't even remember the scene taking place, so it must have been touched on very briefly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samwell_Tarly Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 10 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said: Can one of you guys remind of the rough details of the exchange between Ramsey and Jon regarding him leaving the NW? I can't even remember the scene taking place, so it must have been touched on very briefly. Ramsey basically said he would pardon him for deserting the nights watch if he got down off his horse and proclaimed ramsay warden of the north etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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