btfu806 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, Wildling Queen said: I think this may have been my favorite episode so far, I love when my heart is in my throat at the end. But am I seriously the only one praying for a Dany/Jon love match?! You're not. I mean, I am not praying for it. I don't think it would make a ton of sense but there is a large fan base hoping for them to hook up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildling Queen Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 34 minutes ago, btfu806 said: You're not. I mean, I am not praying for it. I don't think it would make a ton of sense but there is a large fan base hoping for them to hook up. Ha! Yeah, "praying" might have been hyperbolic, but it is something I've hoped for since the beginning. I actually think it makes tons of sense. I feel like the books and the show have been setting this pairing up from the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btfu806 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, Wildling Queen said: Ha! Yeah, "praying" might have been hyperbolic, but it is something I've hoped for since the beginning. I actually think it makes tons of sense. I feel like the books and the show have been setting this pairing up from the beginning. To me, and again, this is just me, I never got that from the books (besides wishful fan thinking) and in the show it's just so heavy handed now that it feels sticky... I always saw Jon as duty before love and the only person he ever loved was Ygritte (and I like her a lot more than Dany!!!) the other opportunities he has had for a relationship/hookup/whatever he has turned down because duty came first. That shows how deep his love was for her and I think it would be ... tacky? Not sure if that's the right word, if he did it all over again for someone else. Maybe after the WWs come and wreck havoc though, he could... So, because he has a duty to the north so I don't think he would ever have a relationship with her. Plussss why? Why would they be attracted to each other? Besides being the two main characters, I don't see it. Again! Just me speaking, obviously I am probably way wrong about this. Though, I will say. The writers with all this "bend the knee" stuff, I think the only way they can get over it all right now is to make a marriage pact. To me it would seem the most logical thing, vs. Dany just suddenly changing her mind or Jon actually bending the knee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildling Queen Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 23 minutes ago, btfu806 said: To me, and again, this is just me, I never got that from the books (besides wishful fan thinking) and in the show it's just so heavy handed now that it feels sticky... I always saw Jon as duty before love and the only person he ever loved was Ygritte (and I like her a lot more than Dany!!!) the other opportunities he has had for a relationship/hookup/whatever he has turned down because duty came first. That shows how deep his love was for her and I think it would be ... tacky? Not sure if that's the right word, if he did it all over again for someone else. Maybe after the WWs come and wreck havoc though, he could... So, because he has a duty to the north so I don't think he would ever have a relationship with her. Plussss why? Why would they be attracted to each other? Besides being the two main characters, I don't see it. Again! Just me speaking, obviously I am probably way wrong about this. Though, I will say. The writers with all this "bend the knee" stuff, I think the only way they can get over it all right now is to make a marriage pact. To me it would seem the most logical thing, vs. Dany just suddenly changing her mind or Jon actually bending the knee. I hear you, but couldn't a pairing of the two be a fulfillment of duty, though? Jon's duty to unite the seven kingdoms to defeat the WW and Dany's sense of duty to unite the seven kingdoms behind her to bring peace to the realm? Yes, the show is being heavy handed about it, but...we know that Targs often intermarried, it's how their control of dragons survived. We also know that Daenerys is drawn to strong leaders and Jon to independent, revolutionary women. The show is making it fairly obvious that the two are attracted to one another, but even a marriage pact that satisfies both characters' sense of duty could logically lead to their growing to love one another. It does to me, anyway. I feel like a lot of folks are just considering it too obvious, but I also feel like it's obvious because the books have provided so much foreshadowing to the pairing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallam Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 9 hours ago, StepStark said: Are you flirting with me? LOL!!! If you are, don't, I'm not interested really. Oh I'm so sorry, I obviously missed the forum rule that says it's you who's deciding who's important enough to post here. Well, you also didn't write a successful show, but that didn't stop you from worshiping every nonsense D&D put on screen and pretending that you "understand" the writing as a process. When I referred to negging, I was not flirting with you, I was comparing your attitude to a slimeball tactic. The way it is supposed to work is that by trash talking everyone else, the negger raises his own relative value. I am saying that no, it does not, it just makes you look rather desperate. I didn't write a successful TV show but the work I have been a part of has been rather more consequential. I really don't need someone trying to prop up their ego with trash talk to validate me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 2 hours ago, StepStark said: So, you're saying that Arya is now equal to Syrio? And you don't have a problem with that? WTF? I've never said that . You seem to have a comprehension problem; I was talking about the way people interpreted Arya/Brienne's duel in comparison with the general acceptance of Syrio's fight against several big guys heavily armored and armed… Read Foldedpencil's post just above yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fishbiscuit Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Wildling Queen said: I hear you, but couldn't a pairing of the two be a fulfillment of duty, though? Jon's duty to unite the seven kingdoms to defeat the WW and Dany's sense of duty to unite the seven kingdoms behind her to bring peace to the realm? Yes, the show is being heavy handed about it, but...we know that Targs often intermarried, it's how their control of dragons survived. We also know that Daenerys is drawn to strong leaders and Jon to independent, revolutionary women. The show is making it fairly obvious that the two are attracted to one another, but even a marriage pact that satisfies both characters' sense of duty could logically lead to their growing to love one another. It does to me, anyway. I feel like a lot of folks are just considering it too obvious, but I also feel like it's obvious because the books have provided so much foreshadowing to the pairing. I think this is entirely plausible and don't get why people think it's too cheesy or obvious or whatever. Cat & Ned married out of duty, Cersei and Robert married out of duty and alliance of houses, Sansa was promised to Joffrey for the same reason, Margaery married the Baratheon princes for personal gain and they married her to shore up their support in Westeros etc. etc. Robb ditched duty and married out of love and look where that got him. Point is, in the big houses that's more commonly the reason why you marry someone. Dany is already aware of this, having been married/given to Drogo and later agreeing to marry the awful Hizdahr in Meereen. It's the reason she left behind Daario. I think it's likely they will marry in the show and in the book too, there is foreshadowing all over the place for it, but I believe it will be a short marriage and Jon will die before the end as he is very much the tragic hero and is all about sacrificing himself for the greater good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btfu806 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Wildling Queen said: I hear you, but couldn't a pairing of the two be a fulfillment of duty, though? Jon's duty to unite the seven kingdoms to defeat the WW and Dany's sense of duty to unite the seven kingdoms behind her to bring peace to the realm? Yes, the show is being heavy handed about it, but...we know that Targs often intermarried, it's how their control of dragons survived. We also know that Daenerys is drawn to strong leaders and Jon to independent, revolutionary women. The show is making it fairly obvious that the two are attracted to one another, but even a marriage pact that satisfies both characters' sense of duty could logically lead to their growing to love one another. It does to me, anyway. I feel like a lot of folks are just considering it too obvious, but I also feel like it's obvious because the books have provided so much foreshadowing to the pairing. Alright, that I will concede on. the show could definitely take that approach, I mean I guess the show could do any approach I guess haha. As far as the book though, I still don't see it. I haven't really taken that much notice of the foreshadowing of their pairing (might be just me) but with only two books left, a lot of loose plot that needs to be tied up and honestly, it's going to feel rushed already, there is too much to do, IMO. But to add a romance between two main characters (that would also be cliche and Martin doesn't typically do that) it wouldn't really seem feasible think, especially since one is dead and the other is on another continent with no ships... then again, maybe he takes the same approach as you stated, doing it out of duty.... Idk. Now if he expands the series to 3 more books or makes a Dream of Spring Part 1 and 2. Then maybe I could see it. But till then, I don't think so. Just my opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illiterati Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 If Jon shows up with a bottle of red hair dye from Walgreen's and offers it to Dany, you know it's finalized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foldedpencil Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I wonder if the reveal of Jon having been killed would effect the prospects of their marriage. Definitely something to disclose before tying the knot. Also, and perhaps more importantly, Daenerys's possible inability to produce an heir. I mean, what kind of ruler fights a war to conquer a continent, only to leave it in chaos again after they die because no clear heir is left to take their place. For myself, I think I could tolerate a reluctant political marriage between Daenerys and Jon more than an impassioned one, as noted by several of you, each character has already had a union of passion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illiterati Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 "There's something I have to tell you, Jon. I'm kind of a freak, I don't burn." "Good to know, dear. You should also know that I am your nephew. Oh, and I died and was brought back to life by blood magic. Now let's get you out of that nightie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildling Queen Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 hour ago, btfu806 said: Now if he expands the series to 3 more books or makes a Dream of Spring Part 1 and 2. Then maybe I could see it. But till then, I don't think so. Just my opinion! Noted. And I will agree that there's a long way to go and a short time to get there, but in the show at least, it can be done without either doing anything out of character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darmody Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lady Fishbiscuit said: I think this is entirely plausible and don't get why people think it's too cheesy or obvious or whatever. Cat & Ned married out of duty, Cersei and Robert married out of duty and alliance of houses, Sansa was promised to Joffrey for the same reason, Margaery married the Baratheon princes for personal gain and they married her to shore up their support in Westeros etc. etc. Robb ditched duty and married out of love and look where that got him. Point is, in the big houses that's more commonly the reason why you marry someone. Dany is already aware of this, having been married/given to Drogo and later agreeing to marry the awful Hizdahr in Meereen. It's the reason she left behind Daario. I think it's likely they will marry in the show and in the book too, there is foreshadowing all over the place for it, but I believe it will be a short marriage and Jon will die before the end as he is very much the tragic hero and is all about sacrificing himself for the greater good. The people who think it's cheesy, heavy-handed, or whatever, aren't thinking in terms of alliances and the good of the realm. In that regard, a Jon-Dany marriage makes perfect sense. (Despite the fact that possibly neither of them can produce an heir, him being undead and her womb maybe being cursed. The show must address that at some point.) The part people don't like, I think, is the bubbling romance. The show has never been great at romance, not counting people who were already together, like Ned and Cat. Jon/Ygritte and Dany/Drogo (If they were really supposed to be in love; I was never entirely sure. He was, but Eermilia Clarke's acting never changes, so who knows?) were exceptional, and in comparison the Jon/Dany pairing thus far feels flat. They could plausibly make it all about sex, but that doesn't fit Jon's character. Then there's incest-fatigue, a serious condition among Game of Thrones watchers. Edited August 10, 2017 by darmody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheValonqarThatWasAzorAhai Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Here is my take on the Jon/ Dany situation based on my own experience. My father was married before he met my mother and he had two kids. One of my half-brothers got married and had two kids. I knew that I had a neice and nephew although I never met them. My nephew starting dating a girl that was a part of the youth group that I belonged to. She started bringing my nephew with her. I didn't know he was my nephew at the time, yet I kept looking at him, something drew me to him. It was only after we started talking that I realized he was my nephew. The point I am making is that maybe Jon is drawn to Dany because he subconsciously is drawn to her because they are related. They don't know why thy are drawn to each other, but they are because they are related. They just don't realize it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadalia Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I don't understand what all the fuss is that Arya beating Brienne in a sword fight? BTW Arya did not actually beat Brienne - it was a draw. I don't think it's impossible. Maybe the choreography (which I thought was entertaining) needed some tweaking, but this is the biggest nitpick that I honestly don't get. I'm supposed to suspend belief that Dragons exist, so I'm also suspending belief that Arya can actually beat Brienne in a sword fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 (edited) I just want to clarify that when I say Bran is a jerk/asshole/whatever now, I just mean that he comes off that way because he's now the three eyed raven and not Brandon Stark, Lord of Winterfell. I don't think he actually IS those things. His change is understandable. However, I have two gripes about his behaviour: 1. He didn't really die in the cave, because he was acting normally with both Benjen and Meera after that point, basically until he got to Castle Black. He more died at the Night's Watch's heart tree. 2. Bloodraven (or whoever the hell he was meant to be on the show, he clearly wasn't Brynden Rivers) was none of those things. He was courteous and patient. If I had to invent a reason for Bran being a robot when Old Man Weirnet wasn't is because if Old Man Weirnet is anything like Bloodraven, he had the chance to gradually become the 3ER. Bran was normal while he was slowly learning, but having to absorb everything in a minute probably broke him in a way. Of course, that doesn't explain why he acted normal for a while after uploading everything, but the writing is never consistent these days and overlooks important little details as a matter of course. The other contributing factor might be the loss of Summer and Hodor. We know he loved both Summer and Hodor with all his heart. He knows they died because of him and that too could contribute to his mind breaking We all know that when a Stark is separated from their Direwolf, either by death or distance, bad things happen. It could be that if Summer hadn't made that totally unnecessary sacrifice and Bran still had him, he'd have more humanity because his bond with Summer should have transcended even being the 3ER. Of course, that's looking into things too deeply for the show. The death of Bran's Bran-ness has been acknowledged by Meera, and thus the show will move on with no further examination of the issue (to borrow from Preston Jacobs). Edited August 11, 2017 by The Bear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 11 hours ago, Nowy Tends said: WTF? I've never said that . You seem to have a comprehension problem; I was talking about the way people interpreted Arya/Brienne's duel in comparison with the general acceptance of Syrio's fight against several big guys heavily armored and armed… Read Foldedpencil's post just above yours. Comprehension problem? Don't flatter yourself, you're not that deep. In fact, it's you who's misunderstanding other people, or you just don't think too much about what you say. But people generally accept Syrio's fight because Syrio was established as one of the world's best swordsmen. How can anything even resembling that criteria be applied to Arya, who was never seen bettering anyone in sword fight? Even her win against the Waif is not seen directly. But all of a sudden she's equal in sparing with one of the best fighters in Westeros! And you're saying that Syrio's fight is somehow supposed to help us understand that? And yes, I read Foldedpencil's post, but sorry to say it doesn't make much sense either. First, just because someone somewhere managed to overcome opponent's advantage in skill, it doesn't mean that now every underdog can win and we just have to accept it. And second, the entire point of the scene was to show us that Arya is now actually equal to Brienne. There was no element of surprise (except maybe at the beginning), or any other extraordinary circumstances, it was a clear "fight" that ended in a draw. If you failed to understand that, then it's maybe you who should think about your comprehension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 5 hours ago, StepStark said: And yes, I read Foldedpencil's post, but sorry to say it doesn't make much sense either. First, just because someone somewhere managed to overcome opponent's advantage in skill, it doesn't mean that now every underdog can win and we just have to accept it. We don't have to accept it and Arya isn't exactly an underdog… And second, the entire point of the scene was to show us that Arya is now actually equal to Brienne. err… no. She took Brienne by surprise, and who would believe that Brienne would take the risk to hurt, even lightly, the Lady of Winterfell's sister? Brienne prefers to be ridiculed rather than risk the irreparable… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plastic throne Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 (edited) On 7. 8. 2017 at 3:24 AM, falcotron said: The Arya at the gates scene was kind of cool, but some of the lines are silly. Why ask "Which Lady Stark?" when she already knows Sansa is alive and well at Winterfell? What other Lady Stark did she think it might be? Pretender Arya? Or maybe wife of Jon? Yea, I know he has none, but Arya couldn't. Edited August 11, 2017 by plastic throne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illiterati Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Wife of John wouldn't be Lady Stark. She already learned in Crossroads that Jon SNOW is KitN. It remains that Rickon could have married. Bran is still too young, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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