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[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion


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4 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Dany was in white or blue until this season.  Sansa was in color.  Cersei was in color.  Cat was in color.  Now literally every character is wearing black.  Plus, sorry, those costumes are horribly unflattering, Dany, Cersei, Missy.......they are ugly in any color.

I think that black in the actual middle ages was actually something that only rich people could afford, the dye to make something black was the most expensive of all.

Not entirely fond of Dany's 'military' gown this season, by the by she has worn that thing too much. Should of had her Dothraki 'Leathers' on when going to battle. 

Even the blues and whites are subdued.

I like the moderated colors and especially the leather, the whole effect to give a 'Rembrant' look, nobody else on TV has that kind of atmosphere.

 

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3 hours ago, Lord Godric said:

Especially after watching all of that gold get away from him? Yes, absolutely. Another part of that final scene that makes it the worst part of the entire episode. 

3 hours ago, Denam_Pavel said:

Yes, Tyrion did. Bronn had no idea Tyrion would be able to talk them out of certain death with the Mountain Clans and walked the High Road with a companion that was, lets be honest, utterly useless in a fight, having seen how dangerous it was on the trip here. In Season 1 was it was also established he'd be north of the Wall for business. I highly doubt that was a venture certain to pay off. Bronn is absolutely a guy that takes massive, stupid risks, so long as he'd be better off in success. Just not fighting the Mountain, cause even if he won ouright, as unlikely as that already is, Tyrion wouldn't actually be in a position to pay him off. Just make it even more likely Cersei would have Bronn killed.

But at that point, for Bronn a Lannister offering him a reward was an exceptional and unusual opportunity that didn't come along very often. And he had no reason to think that Tyrion from the family of we-always-pay-our-debts wouldn't keep his word, especially as they were much more powerful and secure in s1. But now he's met a lot of powerful people/connections, spent years serving the Jaime and has never been paid back. And the Lannisters are in trouble. He's a risk taker but not a moron. 

3 hours ago, Ser Didymus said:

a series of visually extravagant scenes without any true meaning... strung together with pointless dialogue delivered by characters whose motivations and emotions change to fit the moment.  but i have to admit, that is one fine looking dragon.

Yup. 

2 hours ago, ramla said:

I still don't get how a huge army can walk the length of the reach to highgarden yet nobody see them... must'ave used "Goat Tracks"....
And with all the ships gone, how did the masses of Dothraki get to the mainland... march pass Kings landing and catch the Lanisters unawares... ?

And it still bothers me how Dragon Stone has NO port... And no small folk.... You also never see any Dothraki camps or horses.

That's still the biggest problem in all of this. Along with the "sure, taking one of the greatest castles in the realm is a piece of cake. Done in an afternoon" and "the Reach were always terrible warriors right." (Battle of Blackwater? Idk what you mean? Biggest army in the realm? Nonsense!) 

The amount of time it would take for the armies to march from KL and Casterly Rock to Highgarden, means Dany would have had weeks of warning and time to react. Does she even have scouts or spies? Isn't Varys meant to have one of the best spy networks in the country? I know he's been a way for a while but still. Or do they all just sit in Dragonstone ignoring the outside world completely. 

Logically, Dany would have heard about the attack, had time to rally her remaining army or at the very least fly her dragon to massacre the troops before they got there. Hell, even if Olenna didn't see the army until they were at the door, she could have sent a raven to Dany and held out a few hours until she and Drogon arrived. 

Man, remember the days when we spent 2 seasons of Robb and Tywin moving their armies around the little Riverlands? And going from Harrenhal or Dragonstone to KL was a Big Trip. Now we're leaping from one end of the country to another in half an hour.

2 hours ago, A bowl of brown said:

Just had  a thought. What if the infinite puddle Larry falls into is actually a wormhole. And thats how everyones teleporting all the time and why no one uses scouts. We've been way too hard on d&d it all makes perfect sense.

You're a genius. Ok, everything I said was wrong. The stargate wormhole did it. (That also explains how Euron was able to pop up and destroy Yara and the Dornish fleet with no warning - it wasn't that they forget to have look outs). 

2 hours ago, That Westeros Dude said:

You're right I just called them that in my head. But my point is 6 of the 7 kingdoms castles are basically empty, and no one cares, lol. They even cleaned out two of them!! I just find that funny after how a lot of people are so proud of their family and their name, but their home now means nothing to them. Also they are very well fortified, it be nice to have a couple to go to if somehow things turn worse for either Cersei or Dany. 

Ah well, common sense be damned. 

The show has really abandoned the whole concept of the seat of your House being a Big Deal. In early seasons Robb's campaign got hit badly because of WF being taken and he was the "King Who Lost the North", Stannis was #EternallyGrindingTeeth because he didn't get Storms End, Tywin would never give Tyrion Casterly Rock because it would shame the Lannisters. While it wasn't as prominent as it was in the books, the castles were still symbolically important and had a massive impact. Now it's like you can just buy a bunch of Monopoly houses for all they're worth.

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I thought it was weird that the Lannisters did not have any urgency before Dany attacked.  I mean they knew she had dragons, did they not think it was real? I also really thought it was weird that Dany landed and turned her back, and nobody but Jaime thought to rush her, and couldn't Jaime have thrown the spear instead, I've seen Jorah and Greyworm throw spears from pretty far away. I guess, it has to do with the horseback.

Although,  not likely, if Drogon's wound is left untreated and he gets terrible medical aid, then dies. I can pretty much guess how Rheagal and Viserion will die. Rheagal will die by Gendry's hammer and Viserion will die by getting gold poured over his head. (I'm joking of course)

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Another thought: with all these armies zipping around the map, maybe it would not be inconceivable for Dany to fly to the Wall and see for herself the shit storm that's coming. Maybe then she'd be willing to really help Jon. 

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3 hours ago, Wolf's Bane said:

I have to disagree.  Loyalty is more important than politics.  Look what happened to the Kingsguard after Robert took the throne.  Jon Arryn was a politician and he awarded positions based on political advantages.  The KG became crap after that.  Daenerys should surround herself with people who will be completely loyal to her.  Bring back Daario Naharis and Quaithe.  Jorah's return will help.

I forgot about Jorah the Explorah. He would be an excellent LC.

There is no precedent for anyone from Essos, serving in the KG. In fact, besides Sandor Clegane, every member of KG have been a knight. That rules out dothraki, unsullied, and Daario.

If Dany hooks up with Jon, I'm sure that he could round up a few northern knights who would serve. I know that the north typically do not have a tradition of knighthood, but there are some knights north of the neck. House Manderly, House Condon, House Mormont, and I believe House Ryswell have all produced knights.

Dany's ancestor, Visenya is the one who introduced the concept of KG to Westeros. It would be foolish of her not to continue the tradition, or to change precedent in order to place Dothraki or Eunuchs in the order.

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4 hours ago, AryaUnderfoot33 said:

But at that point, for Bronn a Lannister offering him a reward was an exceptional and unusual opportunity that didn't come along very often. And he had no reason to think that Tyrion from the family of we-always-pay-our-debts wouldn't keep his word, especially as they were much more powerful and secure in s1. But now he's met a lot of powerful people/connections, spent years serving the Jaime and has never been paid back. And the Lannisters are in trouble. He's a risk taker but not a moron. 

 

Exactly, which is why if his character was consistent in any way, he'd run away from that battle and into Dany's camp selling his services. 

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8 hours ago, Tyrek Lannister said:

No mention of Rickon from Arya is truly unbelievable...

They only needed a nod to it, like Arya being in the crypt and asking where he's buried or just something to indicate that she knew!

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On 8/7/2017 at 8:49 AM, falcotron said:

I don't think it's somewhere the Children normally hang out, it's just where they had the alliance negotiations between the Children and the First Men.

And probably that's just because the Last Hero went there to mine dragonglass, exactly as Jon is doing now, so everyone had to come there to meet him.

It's also possible that they'd lost so much of Westeros to the White Walkers by that point that the more obvious meeting places for the First Men-Children alliance negotiations weren't safe, but that's less compelling.

At any rate, I think the show is collapsing multiple separate locations from the books, so if there's a similar scene in the books, it probably won't be on Dragonstone.

I am not sure whether it was in the show or not, but there was a pact between the Children and the First men (Night's Watch) - the Children provided dragonglass. I presume they knew where to find it. Also, the drawings could be made by humans, by the First men and not actually by the Children, they share history and blood, I think (all skinchanging and greenseeing).

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15 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said:

Flaws in the rushes:

  • I miss Olenna, she had the truth of it: “Be a dragon”, “the Lords are like children, they must fear you”, “why then did you bother to bring the Dothraki across the sea”? Tyrion, Jon, Varys: Dany’s advisors do not want to use Dothraki, Unsullied, Dragons (at least not openly) in order not to affront the Westerosi people. Oh, and besides, Jon tells her: she has inherited the tarnished Targaeryen name, and she is not from the North etc. In short: Conquer Westeros but make sure no one is afraid of you and everyone loves you. As Olenna said, there is only one thing to do: Beg Cersei to surrender. This is so hippocratic. Tyrion used wildfire to defend KL, Cersei blew up the Sept with wildfire, Euron sinks whole fleets using fire, Varys was involved in the assassination attempt for pregnant Daenerys. And Dany is not allowed to use Dragonfire?

You probably didn't listen at all: Jon told her not to melt and burn castles and cities - TO BE BETTER THAN THIS, otherwise, she would the same as Cersei, as well would be the same as almost all her crazy ancestors (starting with her father and ending with Maegor the Cruel). Using dragons on the battlefield is appropriate, for both people to fear you and to be at least decent conqueror as Aegon and his sisters were.

The same thing Tyrion and Varys (gods know, they are able to use any means for their purpose) have been telling her - not to be a savage tyrant. It is quite enough that she brought savages like Dothraki to Westeros - it is already not in her favour among both nobility and smallfolk, which is understandable and natural.

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15 minutes ago, Gala said:

You probably didn't listen at all: Jon told her not to melt and burn castles and cities - TO BE BETTER THAN THIS, otherwise, she would the same as Cersei, as well would be the same as almost all her crazy ancestors (starting with her father and ending with Maegor the Cruel). Using dragons on the battlefield is appropriate, for both people to fear you and to be at least decent conqueror as Aegon and his sisters were.

The same thing Tyrion and Varys (gods know, they are able to use any means for their purpose) have been telling her - not to be a savage tyrant. It is quite enough that she brought savages like Dothraki to Westeros - it is already not in her favour among both nobility and smallfolk, which is understandable and natural.

Which part of "without repercussion" you didn't get?
Also, she would be the same as EVERYONE ELSE in that universe and i don't get this narrative of Dany having mad queen reputation because almost 20 years ago there was a Mad King? Like how many of the people from that time are still alive in medieval setting where life expectancy is like 35-40 years old. Oh, and btw, nobody seems to care that Cersei blew up the Pope (High Septon) and  Vatican (Baelor's Sept )in the middle of the city killing hundreds of people, a queen that everybody liked, a High Septon everybody liked and her own kin? Yeah, and somehow everybody thinks Dany might be mad and not Cersei.

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On 07/08/2017 at 6:44 AM, A Ghost of Someone said:

Well, it is known that D&D&C, (C is for Cogman) have  hard ons for the Lannisters. They seemingly despise everyone else but them and they have been playing up to make Cersei sympathetic and the incest love with Jaime as the most enduring romance of the show.

It's worked on their audience. I made a comment elsewhere that I was surprised I actually felt sorry the Lannister soldiers. Someone replied (show only watcher) 'so you should, they're are the good guys'.

Like what? The Lannisters are the good guys?!?

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13 hours ago, Corvinus said:

You make a good point. But the fault here then lies with GRRM. He put in the book that the Dothraki charged the Unsullied at the battle of Qohor many times over. And book Dothraki are not so different than show Dothraki, and by that I mean they are still only light cavalry. (but they use bows more)

But I have ask, wouldn't a properly trained war horse be more "courageous" than a regular horse, and actually not balk if a human obstacle is in the way? 

I thought the battle actually did ok in this regard. There a couple of instances where the Dothraki horses clearly stop, or at least slow down, in the front of the Lannister shields. And other instances when they plow through, but where the shield wall had lost integrity. Now charging through fire was completely stupid.

They could charge them all day, question is though if horses obeyed or if unsullied, disciplined as they are made small paths in between their formation to let the horses pass and thus create a good way to massacre them with javelins or thrusts. But tbh, I don't recall that part from the books, could very well be GRRM made a very common mistake.

Trained horse just won't panic and throw you off, it will obey your commands in heavily stressful situations (like during artillery fire, camels/elephants around,...), however there's a limit, they won't go on a suicide mission. You have to know one human as an obstacle and a whole line with spears pointing out is a different thing, even though when its one guy, horse will naturally take path around it but still creating great chance, momentum for the rider to push that lance through the body, especially if that runner has his back at you. Still though, as a lone obstacle, I do know (speaking from experience) that you can get ran down by the animal but more by a chance (too many people to avoid, standing too close) rather than ferocity of a horse.

Cavalry is not so overpowered as movies depict them. Like, you must never come to a complete stand with enemies around you because both you and horse are VERY vulnerable (this is why heavily armored horses like cataphracts were brought to life). You can be pulled off or get your horse killed in instant. Imagine horses are just a mobile army, a way to quickly surround an enemy and panic them to a point of rout or quickly access point in your lines that is about to break, or charge unprotected vulnerable groups like archers, etc,...

However, the key is to move all the time, the initial strategy with Dany creating a hole in Lannisters formation was great (this is exactly how Mongols fought, replacing dragon with artillery though :D), and Dothraki coming through behind Lannisters, panic should overwhelm them and realistically that's when battles end and 90% of casualties historically were done -> during a rout. And during a rout is exactly where light cavalry excels -> by picking off lone, unorganized soldiers on the run.

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5 minutes ago, WinterPool Stark said:

It's worked on their audience. I made a comment elsewhere that I was surprised I actually felt sorry the Lannister soldiers. Someone replied (show only watcher) 'so you should, they're are the good guys'.

Like what? The Lannisters are the good guys?!?

I don't think the Lannisters are good or bad guys. Other than Cersei and Joffrey (Lannister-Baratheon), what Lannister has actually been a villain?

The army can't be classed as bad guys, as they are just following orders. Tyrion is currently with Daenerys, fighting on the opposite side as Cersei and the Lannisters. Jaime is conflicted, as despite being a Lannister and on Cersei's side, most tend to like him for his human qualities, such as his affection towards Tyrion and how he was towards Brienne, saving her from the bear. Even Tywin wouldn't been a true villain; he was just a strong minded man who fought against the Starks and against Stannis. It's easy to think anyone not on team Stark or Targaryen is a villain, but truly, only Cersei and her loyalists like Qyburn are villains.

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12 hours ago, Ser Didymus said:

the books were all about the journey, NOT the destination.

the show is ONLY about the destination, without giving a second thought to the journey (metaphorical or otherwise).

 

a series of visually extravagant scenes without any true meaning... strung together with pointless dialogue delivered by characters whose motivations and emotions change to fit the moment.  but i have to admit, that is one fine looking dragon.

 

This is the best description of GoT television series I've came across. And it only took you few sentences. Bravo!

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10 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

I don't think the Lannisters are good or bad guys. Other than Cersei and Joffrey (Lannister-Baratheon), what Lannister has actually been a villain?

The army can't be classed as bad guys, as they are just following orders. Tyrion is currently with Daenerys, fighting on the opposite side as Cersei and the Lannisters. Jaime is conflicted, as despite being a Lannister and on Cersei's side, most tend to like him for his human qualities, such as his affection towards Tyrion and how he was towards Brienne, saving her from the bear. Even Tywin wouldn't been a true villain; he was just a strong minded man who fought against the Starks and against Stannis. It's easy to think anyone not on team Stark or Targaryen is a villain, but truly, only Cersei and her loyalists like Qyburn are villains.

I've wanted the Lannisters to get their asses kicked from the moment Jaime pushed Bran out the window and then they tried to cover it up.

Then there was Lady, Ned, Stannis, Arya on the run, that Brother of the NW, Rob, Cat, Martell's revenge (the original one)... a pretty long list of reasons over the years tbh (lots I can't think of right now).

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I miss colourful clothes, too. Dany and Margaery and even Cercesi had a lot of pretty clothes in previous seasons. Now they're just dull.

Maybe Dany could wear one of Quarth's dresses leaving a breast out so Jon could get a better look at her good heart ;).

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Well, over time we got to know the main flaw of this episode: it's got the most annoying fanbase in the world.

It wasn't a bad episode; personally I found it to be a bit like one of those bland sponge cakes with a chocolate cover, so that it looks like a chocolate cake, but instead, we have to swallow the damn sponge before we get another taste of the chocolate. But, in the end, it does taste a bit like chocolate, so it's ok...wait...where was I? Oh, yeah; just like the aforementioned cake, this episode was spongy, redundant and seems to set up some points just to trim sideplots to get them over with (littlefinger, meera, etc). However, they put some dragon action on top of it, which is nice, but from the reactions I've seen, it was like the second coming of Christ.

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