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Lady Fevre Dream

[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

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"I believe in her" this bits is getting on my nerve. They said this about Dany repeatedly every week. It's getting so old and annoying. And that Bend-The-Fking-Knee back and forth argument. God.

 

And Scorpion. They didn't train anyone to use and station it? If Bronn didn't rush to it is there anyone at all going to pick it up?

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Amazing episode. Still...

Arya-Brienne. That was bad. I guess you could say Brienne didn't won't to wail full-force on Arya?

Cersei plot armor+ plot sword + plot cannon. Seriously, this is absurd. She blows up the most holy site of the religion (which was undergoing a massive resurgence) killing hundreds of nobles and commoners, her son dies, she takes the throne, being a woman and with no claim who just was paraded naked through the streets as a sinner and... ? Nothing.

Game of Thrones was best when it rewarded intelligence and punished stupidity-- Tywin won the war by capitalizing on a mistake by Rob. He died by failing to realize his son was his peer. But last season with Ramsey and now with Cersei, being insanely evil and brutish apparently has no negative consequences until a hero can save the day. Cersei doesn't deserve her success. 

Jon and Dany- I like their chemistry. But how has no one brought up a match? Dany knew when she left the second sons behind she would need to make a marriage alliance. And there is NO ONE who comes close for a potential spouse. Hell, the show hasn't even bothered to tell us who's running Dorne, Stormlands, Riverlands, Westerlands, or Reach now (I guess Tully's are running Reach? And Cersei rules Westerlands directly?)

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Why, why, why did Cersei have to get her gold? Couldn't Cersei have had one meaningful defeat? She lost her army but was already planning on getting a new one. And Tycho Nestoris basically told her "you're Tywin with teats, but BETTER."

Also, bringing in the Golden Company? Ugh. Thanks, show, for reminding me of the book plot you sliced out and are now having to bend over backward to make up for because of your lack of planning.

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8 minutes ago, Eurybia said:

Also, bringing in the Golden Company? Ugh. Thanks, show, for reminding me of the book plot you sliced out and are now having to bend over backward to make up for your lack of planning.

I doubt there's any real meaning to it being the Golden Company beyond the fact that they needed a sellsword company that hadn't used yet who have been mentioned as a big deal. (Didn't they already use them as the company Davos was trying to convince Stannis to hire?) 

But it would be hilarious if all the fan Golden Company conspiracy theories turned out to be not only true, but so crucial to the plot that D&D have had to cram them into their merged character list. Since Jorah gets Selmy's leftover plots, he's the man who defeated the GC in the Ninepenny War and will be crucial to stopping them again, even though he's too young and fought in the GC himself. Since Cersei gets most of fAegon's plots, the GC believes she's a secret Blackfyre, and that's why they'll break their contract for her, but actually, Tywin was secretly Illyrio's son, not a Blackfyre. And for the rest of the fAegon story, Tarly is JonConn in disguise, and Dickon isn't really his son. At least Varys still gets to be a secret bastard descendant of Aerion Brightflame who's orchestrated the whole thing to get back at both main branches of the family.

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I hate the way they are artificially trying to whitewash Dany´s war. We have Jon telling her that if she burns cities and castles she is no different from other conquerors. But apparently burning foot soldiers and food supplies is perfectly fine. 

I don´t know if someone remembered that those super nice guys who had a heartfelt conversation with Arya about just wanting to go home are likely among the soldiers Drogon burned and the dothraki slaughtered. Or if they cared. Because dragons.... 

 

At the end of the day is all stupid, because, according to the balance of forces at the beginning of the season they could have won the war with just one casualty, Cersei. I discussed my plan with my father in law, who is an artillery general, and he agreed it was the strategy any sane military leader would use.

Step 1. Get your Unsullied and Dothraki to surround KL. Order the Dornish and Reachemen to start marching by land. Make it all a big show of strength.

Step 2. Get your dragons to fly over KL from a safe distance but close enough they can be seen. 

Step 3. If by this point no one has already brought you Cersei,s head on a platter, just send Varys into the Red Keep to murder her.

Step 4. Enter KL, restore the High Sept and get cheered for ever as the savior of the 7 Kingdoms.

 

That NOBODY in Dany´s camp thought of this is just so stupid that can only be explained by D&D "creative reasons" 

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8 minutes ago, Armand Gargalen said:

I hate the way they are artificially trying to whitewash Dany´s war. We have Jon telling her that if she burns cities and castles she is no different from other conquerors. But apparently burning foot soldiers and food supplies is perfectly fine. 

I don´t know if someone remembered that those super nice guys who had a heartfelt conversation with Arya about just wanting to go home are likely among the soldiers Drogon burned and the dothraki slaughtered. Or if they cared. Because dragons.... 

Well, to the people of Westeros, at least she's not burning women and children.

The problem is that many modern viewers aren't going to take it that way, they're going to take the distinction as her not burning civilians, even if that's an anachronistic idea. And after the Arya scene that reminded us that the armies are made up of vassals, bound men at arms, and conscripted smallfolk, who mostly don't want to be in the army, it's bound to fall flat.

But if they have someone explicitly talk about women and children, it might work, at the risk of making Jon or Tyrion or whoever says it sound a little sexist to modern ears.

As for the food supplies, that's not so much tyrannical as incredibly stupid. Those food supplies she turned into charcoal were already taken from the people by Tarly and Jaime, and she was hoping to take them to feed her horde, so nobody's going to be hurt by that except her own side.

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Arya-Brienne sparring session. What in God's name was that? The "I'm so skilled with a sword that I'll hold it behind my back and lean forward whilst pressing my feet together" technique? I feel out of my chair laughing when I saw that stance, maybe the plan was for Brienne to do the same?

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6 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Some issues with your comments:

  • I don't know if you've read any book material, but during Aegon's attempt to conquer Dorne, Meraxes was killed with a scorption; also, not sure what heavy artillery you refer to, there has been no mention of heavy artillery vs. dragons; and Cersei fired the sorpion bolt through Balerion skull

Meraxes was killed by a shot in the eye. It is almost impossible to pierce a fully grown dragon because of thick dragonscale.
 

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54 minutes ago, TywinBestCharacter said:

Hell, the show hasn't even bothered to tell us who's running Dorne, Stormlands, Riverlands, Westerlands, or Reach now (I guess Tully's are running Reach? And Cersei rules Westerlands directly?)

Reach: Jaime told Tarly he'd be the new Warden if he helped take out Olenna, so presumably he is. Although I'm not sure how popular he'll be given that he immediately sacked the gold and food supplies of his own domain to give them to Cersei.

Westerlands: Cersei was named Lady of Casterly Rock and Lady Paramount of the Westerlands before she became Regnant Queen, so it's presumably still her.

Dorne: Surely it goes to Tyene's oldest younger sister, who's not a Sand Snake so everything will be fine and not worth anyone ever talking about, and not just because D&D are rightly afraid that any attempt to mention Dorne ever again will just piss people off.

Stormlands: The official show site listed House Baratheon as the rulers until they took down the info between S6 and S7. So presumably Cersei hasn't replaced Stannis yet. It's hard to know whether it's a hellhole of banditry and warlords, or an anarchist utopia, but given the Riverlands, I'd guess the latter.

Riverlands: It can't be the Tullys, because that's just Edmure, and he's either a prisoner, or running around somewhere in hiding, or starving to death in a Frey prison because Arya didn't know to free him, and he has no right to the title anyway. Presumably Walder has a ton of surviving daughters and maternal grandsons, plus a widow, who'd like to contest his inheritance, but Cersei won't get around to judging their case any faster than she did in appointing a successor for Stannis. Meanwhile, as we saw at the Inn at the Crossroads, everything's fine, and nobody seem to be bothered by the fact that they don't have a government.

I doubt Tarly is an option. I could see Euron dumping Cersei for her, but I don't think she'd be interested. So, you're right, her only choices are Jon, Sweetrobin, an underaged Dornish girl, or some random Lord that she elevates to Lord Paramount and then marries, so yeah, it's kind of an easy choice.

Except that there is one more option. He's an actual King, not just a Lord Paramount. And he's got a pretty big domain that's not part of the Seven Kingdoms, so she doesn't have to have interminable arguments about whether he'll bend the knee. And he's got a decent-sized army that's growing day by day without running up any IBB debts. He likes pale, unexpressive women, and his first marriage had all kinds of blatant moon and stars symbolism just like hers. And didn't Melisandre just say that fire and ice need to be brought together? The Night King might be the best option for her.

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6 hours ago, Jayc said:

She also shouldn't be able to wear people's faces and talk just like them. It's just not realistic. That and everything else 

That's a terrible argument. That's clearly magic and requires suspension of disbelief. A swordfight is not magic. 

Anyway, Littlefinger must be the dumbest character in the show. He's a dead man walking and instead of running away, he makes dumb one-liners and snickers to himself while twirling his mustache. What a mastermind. I'm sure when he dies by the end of this season it's going to be seen as ''epic'', when in reality it will just be dumb. 

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I like how all logic is thrown away so that is set up for Cersei to last longer because D&D love Lena Headey.

Daenerys isn't going to attack or siege King's Landing because she doesn't want innocent people to get killed????????

I thought she had like tons of experience before and now is a dragon queen, taking KL would end the war, but no, instead they capture Casterly Rock, then lose Highgarden and the Iron fleet and prolong the war for god knows how long. Like how many people will get killed while doing so?? You still have to besiege/starve out or attack KL eventually...

So after the E03 with all the idiocy we've seen now we get the gold before the army in KL because D&D wanted it to happen, so creatively it made sense.

Characters lack build up to do certain things, they lack complexity, they are just a tool for BIG SHOCK MOMENTS that also have a poor build up. 

Overall i did enjoy this episode more than previous ones. Even though there were some cringy/boring moments, who knows how the dothraki were moved across the sea (Daenerys still has a lot of ships??) and nobody uses scouts anymore, the battle was done very well.

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9 minutes ago, Pyat>Daenerys said:

Anyway, Littlefinger must be the dumbest character in the show. He's a dead man walking and instead of running away, he makes dumb one-liners and snickers to himself while twirling his mustache. What a mastermind. I'm sure when he dies by the end of this season it's going to be seen as ''epic'', when in reality it will just be dumb. 

A mastermind´s train of thought.

-"OK, here I am, freezing at the North while the Army of the Dead approaches. Also, this boy whose father I betrayed and who seems to know lots of things he should not just arrived. It seems as a clever move to get all the gold I embezzled while I was Master of Coin and run to, let´s say Myr, Lys or Tyrosh, buy a manse and some pleasure houses there and live happily ever after while this suckers fight their petty wars. But alas, I am too much in love with Sansa, and even though there is no hint whatsoever she might share my feelings and her brotherr and king almost beat me up just for mentioning it, I´d rather stay a while longer, just in case... In the meantime, I will smirk just to look interesting"

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2 minutes ago, Duckface said:

I like how all logic is thrown away so that is set up for Cersei to last longer because D&D love Lena Headey.

Daenerys isn't going to attack or siege King's Landing because she doesn't want innocent people to get killed????????

I thought she had like tons of experience before and now is a dragon queen, taking KL would end the war, but no, instead they capture Casterly Rock, then lose Highgarden and the Iron fleet and prolong the war for god knows how long. Like how many people will get killed while doing so?? You still have to besiege/starve out or attack KL eventually...

So after the E03 with all the idiocy we've seen now we get the gold before the army in KL because D&D wanted it to happen, so creatively it made sense.

Characters lack build up to do certain things, they lack complexity, they are just a tool for BIG SHOCK MOMENTS that also have a poor build up. 

Overall i did enjoy this episode more than previous ones. Even though there were some cringy/boring moments, who knows how the dothraki were moved across the sea (Daenerys still has a lot of ships??) and nobody uses scouts anymore, the battle was done very well.

The funniest thing about this dumb plan is that Dragonstone and Kings Landing are right next to each other. Meanwhile Casterly rock is on the other side of the map.

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I generally liked this episode because...dragons, and things moving in the plot, and ...dragons. BUT;

1. Bronn(or is it Dickon?) appears from nowhere and with enough force to knock a fully armoured knight off of his horse sideways with enough velocity to...

2. land in very very very deep water. Very deep. When they were that close to shore.I mean, it looked like Jaime was sinking into the marianas trench

3. Dany risks Drogon getting hurt by flying straight at a massive ballista...

4. and then LANDS casually in the middle of a battlefield to pull out the arrow

5. she is tiny, the arrow is big. need I say more?

6. Teleportation of the Dothraki hordes & Tyrion to surround the lannisters

7. Bran zombie face being all cold on Meera.

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Another thing, why would Dany burn carriages with supplies? No matter what was in there food or gold or weapons and i if it's food, then it is more valuable for her than gold...

WINTER IS HERE, MEMBER?

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That part where Jon told Dany nobody will follow her anymore if she burned castles really cracked me up. Practically everyone in her army who came from Essos follows her because she burned the Astapor slavers and then the Dothraki leaders in Vaes Dothrack. Didn't this guy at least know that Dothraki are more than fine with a bloodthirsty badass leader who burns cities and slaughters people en masse?

Dany saying "enough with clever plans" was another LOL moment for me. What clever plans, may I ask?

They should just kill LF already, he's become the most useless and dull character in this show. Why is Bran not revealing his treachery anyway? What is the point of his scenes? Such a waste of time. Gillen is mailing it in a blatant way and I can't really blame him, he's given atrocious material to work with.

Why would Cersei want to repay the whole gigantic debt of the realm to the IB at once while she is in a middle of a massive war especially since she wants to take another loan right away? And how come the Tyrells after all these months of war and financing a huge army had enough money at their castle to pay all of that debt?

I am so sick of Bron being some sort of superman who can do anything the plot requires and is shoved into any situation no matter how think the reasoning is. Where are the people who were supposed to operate the scorpion? And why did it take the Lannister army so long for someone to realise that using the scorpion is a good idea?

Everyone is already mocked the Brienne - Arya scene enough. WTF was this?

 

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15 minutes ago, Gomagoti said:

I generally liked this episode because...dragons, and things moving in the plot, and ...dragons. BUT;

1. Bronn(or is it Dickon?) appears from nowhere and with enough force to knock a fully armoured knight off of his horse sideways with enough velocity to...

2. land in very very very deep water. Very deep. When they were that close to shore.I mean, it looked like Jaime was sinking into the marianas trench

3. Dany risks Drogon getting hurt by flying straight at a massive ballista...

4. and then LANDS casually in the middle of a battlefield to pull out the arrow

5. she is tiny, the arrow is big. need I say more?

6. Teleportation of the Dothraki hordes & Tyrion to surround the lannisters

7. Bran zombie face being all cold on Meera.

Dany ought to be wearing mail, or at least a padded leather jack and helmet, given the warning she received in Episode 3 about being hit by stray arrows.

Obviously, it wouldn't prevent her from being skewered by a lance with the full weight of Jaime and a galloping horse behind it, but it would provide a great deal more protection than a dress.

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12 minutes ago, David Selig said:

That part where Jon told Dany nobody will follow her anymore if she burned castles really cracked me up. Practically everyone in her army who came from Essos follows her because she burned the Astapor slavers and then the Dothraki leaders in Vaes Dothrack. Didn't this guy at least know that Dothraki are more than fine with a bloodthirsty badass leader who burns cities and slaughters people en masse?

I'm pretty sure Jon was saying none of the Westerosi will follow her if she burns the castles and towns; not that her Dothraki and Unsullied won't. it's not like she can burn Westeros down and repopulate it from scratch with the 100000 men (including eunuchs) and 2 women that she brought.

But yeah, Jon really didn't put that very well. (Then again, when's the last time Jon put anything well?)

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