What's the current military stats for both sides?

[Samwell_Tarly]

19 minutes ago, Raven Banner said:

The Vale declared for house Stark (unsure if the Vale support their side or took Jon for their king as well. I tend to believe the first). Petyr Paelish said that in an episode, can't remember which one. But if an united North cannot stand against the Nights King, as Jon Snow thinks, when they might support Daenaerys too have an united Westeros. 

The Vale is an independent part of the North ruled by the North(Starks) They have proclaimed Jon KITN, why? whats different to the War of the Five Kings. The didnt swear feality to anyone during that time and kept out of this affair. However in the BoBs they basically said fuck the Lannisters we are with the Starks. Therefore it would be stupid not to proclaim Jon as King in the North as they would be without allies in the war or wars to come.

[Lurid Jester]

On 8/7/2017 at 4:17 AM, Mihai Brasoveanu said:

Let's not forget Cersei talking about the Golden Company this season and how she will buy their support. That might balance the odds again.

That bit caught me off guard. It seems really late to introduce the GC unless they're going to reduce them to a highly trained mercenary group since they can't really bring fAegon in. 

[King Louis II (KLII)]

48 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

That bit caught me off guard. It seems really late to introduce the GC unless they're going to reduce them to a highly trained mercenary group since they can't really bring fAegon in. 

I was wondering if Daario would be with the GC+Second Sons and that will be the betrayal for love that we have heard before.

[Nic.]

The numbers in the show don't make any sense at all so i'm not even going to bother to try and guess. 

[Samwell_Tarly]

15 minutes ago, King Louis II (KLII) said:

I was wondering if Daario would be with the GC+Second Sons and that will be the betrayal for love that we have heard before.

NOT IN THE SHOW!!!!

[Jordan La Cabra]

2 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

NOT IN THE SHOW!!!!

Normally it's people that have read the books that hate the show, but in you, young Samwell, I've found someone who really hates the books!

[Samwell_Tarly]

3 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Normally it's people that have read the books that hate the show, but in you, young Samwell, I've found someone who really hates the books!

Nowhere have i said I hate the books, and nowhere have I criticised the books. The fact of the matter is people are quoting book references to explain show situations.  I however, to a degree, don't have a problem using parts of the book as history reference but even then it can be different. 

[Jordan La Cabra]

Just now, Samwell_Tarly said:

Nowhere have i said I hate the books, and nowhere have I criticised the books. The fact of the matter is people are quoting book references to explain show situations.  I however, to a degree, don't have a problem using parts of the book as history reference but even then it can be different. 

It's easily done, though. The show has left a lot of things out that people have read in the books and still count as part of the story, so it's easy to get the lines blurred between which is relevant to which. The Valonqar prophecy is a prominent example.

[Samwell_Tarly]

9 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

It's easily done, though. The show has left a lot of things out that people have read in the books and still count as part of the story, so it's easy to get the lines blurred between which is relevant to which. The Valonqar prophecy is a prominent example.

The Valonqar prophecy is not a prominent example of the show leaving stuff out which is still count as part of the story. As the witch states in the show, Cersei has technically been fulfilled these predictions. Its not counted in the TV show, the Valonqar prophecy is omitted. If Jamie kills Cersei, Jamie has simpley killed Cersei. 

[Jordan La Cabra]

5 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

The Valonqar prophecy is not a prominent example of the show leaving stuff out which is still count as part of the story. As the witch states in the show, Cersei has technically been fulfilled these predictions. Its not counted in the TV show, the Valonqar prophecy is omitted. If Jamie kills Cersei, Jamie has simpley killed Cersei. 

I'm not meaning that it counts. I'm meaning that is a case where people who have read the books can easily forget that prophecy was left out the show. 

You send your caps-lock-on reply to King Louis II for saying 'the betrayal for love that we have heard before.' You're saying that isn't in the show. If it isn't in the show, he has simply forgotten that. I didn't even realise it wasn't in the show, either, so that's news to me, too.

It's very easily done and it's not King Louis II's fault he's remember something from the books - that influenced and inspired the show - and applied it to the show, it's the writers' faults for not putting it in, which can confuse fans.

 

[norwaywolf123]

On 7.8.2017 at 10:23 AM, snow is the man said:

I think the iron bank is gonna decline the offer to help cersei now since the lannister army just got fried by a dragon and trampeled by the dothraki. The iron bank is good at picking winners and losers and I think they are gonna take the gold and do nothing for cersei which will leave her broke and unable to pay for anything much less a giant merc company. I have said that I think the iron bank is just gonna use cersei to get alot of their gold back since in their minds it seems less likely that westero's will be stable enough to pay them back for a long time and getting their gold from a losing side will only help them. And for dany it's a win win since cersei is paying off the debt the iron throne owes and casuing cersei to lose a ton of money that could be used for her war

Cersei will not pay the ironbank

 

[Samwell_Tarly]

4 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Cersei will not pay the ironbank

 

I agree. You think Cersei is going to pay it back after whats happened now. The Iron Bank are almost certainly going to take the Gold and run. She'll either have the IB Tycho representative murdered or use the gold as a bargaining chip for further help.

[norwaywolf123]

On 7.8.2017 at 10:31 PM, aryagonnakill#2 said:

her Unsullied which control the Westerlands.

They control one castle only.

On 7.8.2017 at 10:31 PM, aryagonnakill#2 said:

  She should still have a ton of Dothraki.  One problem she may face is that she seems to have roasted all of the food that was gathered in the Reach and for narrative purposes that may turn into all the food.

She roasted the food from the Reach which is going to Kingslanding. There is food left in the Reach or the populaiton would starve they only took a part of the food as a tax or fine. I still suspect that the increased numbers of people Daenerys bringing to daenerys mostly dothraki warriors will take the food from the indiginous westerosi leaving them to starve.

On 7.8.2017 at 10:40 PM, TheRevanchist said:

60k Lannisters? How on Earth that is possible? During the war of five kings, Tywin had under his command 35k soldiers, while a cousin of him was assembling an another army. But Lannisters suffered several losses against Robb (and even Edmure), and they later fought in Kinglanding too. There shouldn't be many Lannisters left. 10k is probably too low, but there is no way that they are near 60k. I mean, the most they can have is 50k, but not after all these wars.

All these men are not lannisters for the most part they are smallfolk that have been summoned for service by their local lord, professional soldiers(knights, retinues) or nobles of different stripes.

6 hours ago, Raven Banner said:

I have rewatched episode, and in the beginning when they leave Highgarden there is the Tarly Huntsman on some of the shields. So Tarly forces were involved in that battle.

There was probably a mistake during the filming or they forgot the other banners. Also there should be many different banners in the westermen army not only lannister ones, house lannister rules the westerlands but have vassals.

6 hours ago, Raven Banner said:

On a related topic, I think Dany will lose the next battle, because she doesn't have a skilled general. She needs a military commander and there aren't any available. 

I hope the Faith Militant or something will chase the invading colonising dothraki who only want subjugate the indiginous population.

 

[norwaywolf123]

3 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

The Vale is an independent part of the North ruled by the North(Starks) They have proclaimed Jon KITN, why? whats different to the War of the Five Kings. The didnt swear feality to anyone during that time and kept out of this affair. However in the BoBs they basically said fuck the Lannisters we are with the Starks. Therefore it would be stupid not to proclaim Jon as King in the North as they would be without allies in the war or wars to come.

When Jon Snow and his army went to winterfell to retake the castle and north from Ramsey Bolton who was supported by House Umber and House Karstark. Jon was outnumered and had less experienced soldiers than his enemy. Thanks to a miracle the knights of the Vale show up and saves the day. Robin Arryn is the lord of the vale and it was his forces that saved the day. In return Robin Arryn gets to bend the knee to Jon Snow and become his vassal. Seems like a pretty bad deal for Robin Arryn. Why would Robin Arryn agree to this? Maybe Sweetrobin is to soft in the head to understand? More likely it is just bad planning in the production. Worst deal ever!

7 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

I agree. You think Cersei is going to pay it back after whats happened now. The Iron Bank are almost certainly going to take the Gold and run. She'll either have the IB Tycho representative murdered or use the gold as a bargaining chip for further help.

How can the ironbank take the gold from Cersei? The gold is physically inside kingslanding guarded by soldiers. Tycho Nestoris will probably go home to Braavos with his tail between his legs after being threated with murder by "Queen" Cersei.

 

[Samwell_Tarly]

4 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

When Jon Snow and his army went to winterfell to retake the castle and north from Ramsey Bolton who was supported by House Umber and House Karstark. Jon was outnumered and had less experienced soldiers than his enemy. Thanks to a miracle the knights of the Vale show up and saves the day. Robin Arryn is the lord of the vale and it was his forces that saved the day. In return Robin Arryn gets to bend the knee to Jon Snow and become his vassal. Seems like a pretty bad deal for Robin Arryn. Why would Robin Arryn agree to this? Maybe Sweetrobin is to soft in the head to understand? More likely it is just bad planning in the production. Worst deal ever!

Bad planning in production agreed.

4 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

How can the ironbank take the gold from Cersei? The gold is physically inside kingslanding guarded by soldiers. Tycho Nestoris will probably go home to Braavos with his tail between his legs after being threated with murder by "Queen" Cersei.

 

Sorry probably did not word it right, I meant if Cersei gave them Gold he would take it and go not re back as promised.

[Illiterati]

27 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Bad planning in production agreed.

Sorry probably did not word it right, I meant if Cersei gave them Gold he would take it and go not re back as promised.

the IBB seems to have an immense amount of power, so much so that Cersei is so eager to repay them.  I think refusing to pay because of Jaime's line getting roasted would have worse consequences for Cersei's ambition than simply repaying him and going on without the gold.

 

My image all along was that the IBB would be repaid, and then that money will go into undermining Cersei's campaign.

[Samwell_Tarly]

1 minute ago, Illiterati said:

the IBB seems to have an immense amount of power, so much so that Cersei is so eager to repay them.  I think refusing to pay because of Jaime's line getting roasted would have worse consequences for Cersei's ambition than simply repaying him and going on without the gold.

 

My image all along was that the IBB would be repaid, and then that money will go into undermining Cersei's campaign.

This would then undermine Cersei she is not stupid, she knows what the Iron Bank is going to do now, she needs that gold more than anything now. Shes just had like 25%-33% of her army roasted. 

The Iron Bank will learn how easy one dragon and dothraki hoard crumpled up to 10,000 Lannister soldiers. They literally rolled over them. You think Cersei cares about her ambition after that, she doesnt keep the gold she stands no chance what so ever. After making out she and her ''council'' are so clever then to just hand the gold back, the Iron Bank goes and supports Daenerys and she completely destroys them. I think the writers are 'useless' but more creative than that. Swinging power from side to side making each character stupid.

[Illiterati]

6 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

This would then undermine Cersei she is not stupid, she knows what the Iron Bank is going to do now, she needs that gold more than anything now. Shes just had like 25%-33% of her army roasted. 

The Iron Bank will learn how easy one dragon and dothraki hoard crumpled up to 10,000 Lannister soldiers. They literally rolled over them. You think Cersei cares about her ambition after that, she doesnt keep the gold she stands no chance what so ever. After making out she and her ''council'' are so clever then to just hand the gold back, the Iron Bank goes and supports Daenerys and she completely destroys them. I think the writers are 'useless' but more creative than that. Swinging power from side to side making each character stupid.

But this lot of gold doesn't comprise all of the IBB's wealth.  IBB will play against Cersei either way, imo.  Either with the repaid loot or with other funds.

 

So either way, I think Dany gets IBB support because dragons.  I felt this way upon their first S7 conversation.  The only thing that remains to be seen is whether he gets out of KL with the gold (and alive) or not.

[Samwell_Tarly]

5 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

But this lot of gold doesn't comprise all of the IBB's wealth.  IBB will play against Cersei either way, imo.  Either with the repaid loot or with other funds.

So would that not make sense if she stands any chance to survive, she best keep the gold?!?!  

1. I pay the Gold back and they do a runner, I get slaughtered.
2. I dont pay the gold back and they do a runner, but possibly may negotiate.

I'll keep the gold then.

Quote

So either way, I think Dany gets IBB support because dragons.  I felt this way upon their first S7 conversation.  The only thing that remains to be seen is whether he gets out of KL with the gold (and alive) or not.

Cersei will know this, shes knows the IB will switch sides. So if she stands any chance of them not, she ought to keep the gold. 

[snow is the man]

49 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

When Jon Snow and his army went to winterfell to retake the castle and north from Ramsey Bolton who was supported by House Umber and House Karstark. Jon was outnumered and had less experienced soldiers than his enemy. Thanks to a miracle the knights of the Vale show up and saves the day. Robin Arryn is the lord of the vale and it was his forces that saved the day. In return Robin Arryn gets to bend the knee to Jon Snow and become his vassal. Seems like a pretty bad deal for Robin Arryn. Why would Robin Arryn agree to this? Maybe Sweetrobin is to soft in the head to understand? More likely it is just bad planning in the production. Worst deal ever!

How can the ironbank take the gold from Cersei? The gold is physically inside kingslanding guarded by soldiers. Tycho Nestoris will probably go home to Braavos with his tail between his legs after being threated with murder by "Queen" Cersei.

 

Actually sweet robin is essentially controlled by little finger and doesn't care about much. So it's more about littlefinger controlling him.

Also the ironbank has ways of getting their due. They can wreck an economy and will. They will support someone's enemy if it can get them their money. In short don't f*** with the iron bank